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14:55:33 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/12/01-wcag2ict-irc
14:55:35 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:55:36 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), maryjom
14:55:39 <maryjom> agenda?
14:55:47 <maryjom> chair: Mary Jo Mueller
14:56:05 <maryjom> meeting: WCAG2ICT Task Force Teleconference
14:56:18 <maryjom> zakim, please time speakers at 2 minutes
14:56:18 <Zakim> ok, maryjom
14:56:26 <maryjom> Agenda+ Announcements
14:56:34 <maryjom> Agenda+ AG WG guidance to TF on scope of changes the TF can make
14:56:44 <maryjom> Agenda+ Survey: Draft background section
14:56:54 <maryjom> Agenda+ Survey: Review proposed changes to guidelines
14:57:04 <maryjom> Agenda+ Survey: Initial look at draft for 1.3.5 Identify Input Purpose
14:57:21 <maryjom> regrets: Chris Loiselle, Bruce Bailey, Laura Miller, Bryan Trogdon
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15:00:47 <maryjom> present+
15:00:47 <ThorstenKatzmann> present+
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15:00:49 <Devanshu> present+
15:00:54 <shadi> present+
15:00:54 <Mike_Pluke> present+
15:00:57 <loicmn> present+
15:00:59 <GreggVan> present+
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15:01:43 <pday> present+
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15:02:22 <Chuck> zakim, pick a scribe
15:02:22 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose shadi
15:02:25 <daniel-montalvo> present+ Daniel
15:02:28 <FernandaBonnin_> present+
15:02:57 <shadi> scribe: shadi
15:03:18 <Sam> Sam has joined #wcag2ict
15:03:29 <shadi> zakim, take up agendum 1
15:03:29 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Announcements -- taken up [from maryjom]
15:03:51 <shadi> MJM: markdown conversion has now been merged
15:04:45 <shadi> ...details to be worked out
15:05:03 <shadi> ...some things missing in the published Editor Draft
15:05:11 <shadi> ...but these changes coming soon
15:05:29 <shadi> MJM: have new person joining the Task Force
15:05:38 <shadi> ...Loic Martinez-Normand
15:05:57 <shadi> LMN: work at the University of Madrid
15:06:08 <shadi> ...have been heavily involved in EN 301 549
15:06:22 <shadi> ...and the previous Task Force on WCAG2ICT
15:07:11 <MichaelC> present+
15:07:46 <FernandaBonnin_> +1 to have more time to review
15:07:53 <shadi> zakim, take up next
15:07:53 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- AG WG guidance to TF on scope of changes the TF can make -- taken up [from maryjom]
15:08:11 <maryjom>  https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/WCAG2ICT-Draft-discussion/results#xQ1
15:08:24 <maryjom> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/WCAG2ICT-guidelines/results#xQ1
15:08:54 <shadi> MJM: looked at this before without modifications
15:09:16 <shadi> ...comment from Bruce in the first survey
15:09:25 <maryjom> https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/20#issuecomment-1314034069
15:09:59 <shadi> ^^^ comment from Bruce and follow-up from Thorsten
15:10:27 <shadi> ...Laura has been trying to connect with Bruce on this issue
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15:11:14 <olivia-hogan-stark> present+
15:11:30 <GreggVan> q+
15:11:38 <maryjom> ack GreggVan
15:12:00 <shadi> GV: maybe say "not addressed in the original WCAG2ICT"
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15:12:31 <Mike_Pluke> +1 to Gregg's proposed addition
15:13:09 <shadi> MJM: sounds good, adding the word "original" in the text
15:13:57 <Sam> present+
15:14:00 <shadi> MJM: comment from Chris
15:14:20 <GreggVan> +1
15:14:21 <shadi> ...be consistent about non-web documents and non-web software
15:14:54 <shadi> MJM: Loic agreed with comments from Thorsten and Bruce
15:14:59 <shadi> ...and that's it
15:15:12 <shadi> ...just need to incorporate these edits
15:15:21 <pday> q+
15:15:22 <shadi> ...nothing seems controversial
15:15:26 <shadi> ...any comments?
15:15:27 <maryjom> ack pday
15:16:30 <shadi> PD: small recap of what will happen?
15:16:49 <shadi> MJM: some people proposed changes, others might be done by Laura
15:17:23 <shadi> zakim, take up next
15:17:23 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Survey: Draft background section -- taken up [from maryjom]
15:17:49 <Chuck> agenda?
15:18:02 <Chuck> zakim, take up item 4
15:18:02 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Survey: Review proposed changes to guidelines -- taken up [from maryjom]
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15:18:16 <maryjom> : https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/WCAG2ICT-guidelines/results
15:18:29 <AnastasiaLanz> present+
15:18:49 <shadi> MJM: two suggested changes
15:18:58 <shadi> ...Gregg suggesting change to the intent
15:19:02 <GreggVan> q+
15:19:09 <Chuck> q+
15:19:49 <maryjom> ack GreggVan
15:20:03 <shadi> GV: proposed to the AGWG Chairs
15:20:18 <shadi> ...will be taken up there
15:20:30 <shadi> MJM: has an issue been opened?
15:20:49 <shadi> GV: don't know but it will get fixed, and we don't need to worry about it
15:21:42 <maryjom> ack chuck
15:22:01 <shadi> CA: don't know if issue has been opened, can take that offline
15:22:27 <shadi> ...while this particular instance can be accommodated, we're finalizing WCAG 2.2
15:22:41 <GreggVan> q+
15:22:51 <shadi> ...cannot depend on further changes in the future
15:23:09 <shadi> ...need to work with the existing text
15:23:39 <shadi> ...ought not to create dependencies on future changes
15:24:35 <maryjom> q?
15:24:39 <maryjom> ack GreggVan
15:24:55 <shadi> GV: suggest we reconsider that decision
15:25:37 <shadi> ...last WCAG2ICT effort found many issues in the Understanding docs
15:25:40 <shadi> q+
15:25:59 <shadi> ...improves accuracy for everyone
15:26:27 <shadi> ...do not expect many issues
15:26:38 <shadi> ...but these are Notes, not normative documents
15:27:00 <maryjom> ack shadi
15:27:28 <Chuck> q+
15:27:46 <pday> ack Chuck
15:27:56 <shadi> SAZ: thought some level of support is in the AGWG Charter
15:28:29 <shadi> CA: just cannot guarantee, can't depend on it
15:28:40 <shadi> GV: ah, got it
15:28:44 <shadi> ...that makes sense
15:29:26 <shadi> MJM: so we'll continue tracking issues and submitting to AGWG
15:29:41 <shadi> ...not depend on that but they may or might not make the changes
15:29:47 <shadi> q+
15:29:52 <loicmn> q+
15:30:22 <pday> ack loicmn
15:30:49 <shadi> LMN: now better understand what AGWG can and cannot do
15:31:31 <GreggVan> q+
15:31:39 <shadi> ...in some software context, you might not be able to do anything about GL 2.5
15:31:52 <maryjom> ack shadi
15:31:53 <shadi> ...maybe need to add a note for that
15:32:22 <Chuck> shadi:  Minor on summary earlier, maybe one thing to increase chances if we do find an issue, is make a good proposal...
15:32:51 <GreggVan> +1  to  including a specific solution with an issue
15:32:57 <Chuck> shadi:  The easier it is for AGWG to incorporate a requested change the more likely it is that AGWG can adopt.  Make it as easy as possible.
15:32:58 <Chuck> +1
15:33:00 <maryjom> ack GreggVan
15:33:17 <shadi> GV: +1 to send issue with solution
15:33:31 <shadi> ...on Loic's point, Guidelines are not required
15:33:44 <shadi> ...so either we don't look at them at all
15:34:19 <shadi> ...they are often broad statements that can't be addressed as such
15:34:37 <maryjom> +1 to Gregg's comment
15:34:40 <shadi> ...or we should treat them as big broad statements and not spend too much effort on them
15:35:00 <loicmn> +1 to Gregg's comment
15:35:02 <Mike_Pluke> q+
15:35:13 <maryjom> ack Mike_Pluke
15:36:07 <maryjom> q+
15:36:14 <shadi> MP: maybe we can scope the applicability to where it definitely applies
15:36:16 <maryjom> ack maryjom
15:36:16 <GreggVan> q+
15:36:51 <shadi> MJM: does the EN make any references to the Guidelines?
15:37:22 <shadi> MP: no, but maybe we can apply the same approach we use in EN 301 549 to scope criteria
15:37:29 <maryjom> ack GreggVan
15:37:50 <shadi> GV: suggest we just skip the Guidelines
15:38:17 <shadi> ...if we start scoping and clarifying, it might draw more attention than needed and confuse people
15:38:21 <loicmn> +1 to "skip" Guidelines as proposed by Gregg. We can just say "Guideline n.n applies as written".
15:38:34 <maryjom> Draft Resolution: Incorporate the Guidelines changes as-is and open an issue on the WCAG understanding to address Gregg’s comment.
15:38:36 <shadi> ...they are also not applied in practice for web content either
15:39:05 <loicmn> +1 to resolution
15:39:06 <Devanshu> +1
15:39:07 <AnastasiaLanz> +1
15:39:08 <Mike_Pluke> +1
15:39:09 <olivia-hogan-stark> +1
15:39:09 <GreggVan> +1
15:39:10 <maryjom> +1
15:39:11 <FernandaBonnin_> +1
15:39:11 <ThorstenKatzmann> +1
15:39:12 <shadi> +1
15:39:14 <pday> +1
15:39:16 <Sam> +1
15:39:31 <Chuck> 12 +1's, no 0's, no -1's
15:39:37 <maryjom> RESOLUTION: : Incorporate the Guidelines changes as-is and open an issue on the WCAG understanding to address Gregg’s comment.
15:40:07 <shadi> zakim, take up next
15:40:07 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Survey: Draft background section -- taken up [from maryjom]
15:40:20 <Chuck> agenda?
15:40:25 <daniel-montalvo> s: Inc/Inc/
15:40:28 <Chuck> zakim, take up item 5
15:40:28 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Survey: Initial look at draft for 1.3.5 Identify Input Purpose -- taken up [from maryjom]
15:41:06 <maryjom> • https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/WCAG2ICT-Identify-input-purpose/results
15:42:54 <loicmn> q+
15:43:35 <shadi> LMN: inconsistencies between the terms listed in both docs
15:44:31 <shadi> ...adding notes in the Annex like we did in EN 301 549
15:45:37 <shadi> FB: not the same list, just wanted to highlight that
15:46:14 <shadi> ...need to refine the granularity in the note
15:46:30 <shadi> MJM: maybe also need a section about user interface components
15:47:02 <GreggVan> q+
15:47:09 <maryjom> ack loicmn
15:47:10 <daniel-montalvo> q?
15:47:15 <maryjom> ack GreggVan
15:47:49 <Devanshu> q+
15:47:57 <shadi> GV: not sure why it doesn't apply to certain types of software
15:48:18 <shadi> ...it seems to apply to web apps for example
15:48:22 <maryjom> ack Devanshu
15:48:34 <shadi> DC: agree with Gregg
15:49:23 <shadi> ...both iOS and Android have attributes for names
15:49:49 <shadi> ...it wasn't applicable before but it now applies
15:49:51 <Chuck> q+ to note that the standard is currently scoped to personal information.
15:50:10 <GreggVan> q+
15:50:11 <shadi> ...just the list is tricky, might not apply the same to all operating systems
15:50:17 <maryjom> ack GreggVan
15:50:33 <shadi> GV: list of purposes not list of names
15:50:52 <shadi> ...so differences among operating systems should be taken care of
15:51:24 <shadi> ...need to match the name corresponding to the purpose
15:51:43 <maryjom> ack Chuck
15:51:43 <Zakim> Chuck, you wanted to note that the standard is currently scoped to personal information.
15:51:51 <shadi> ...won't be backwards compatible with older software that didn't have this attribute
15:52:19 <shadi> CA: this SC is scoped to personal information, not everything in the world
15:52:49 <shadi> ...at the time, autocomplete was most supported
15:52:51 <maryjom>  q?
15:52:56 <shadi> ...this is where the list came from
15:53:40 <GreggVan> q+
15:53:43 <Devanshu> q+
15:53:46 <Chuck> q+
15:53:57 <maryjom> ack GreggVan
15:54:19 <shadi> GV: autocomplete was one of the driving forces
15:54:22 <Chuck> +1 it's NOT solely for autocomplete!
15:54:26 <shadi> ...but not the only use
15:54:33 <maryjom> ack Devanshu
15:54:40 <shadi> DC: agree with Gregg
15:54:54 <Sam> q+
15:54:54 <shadi> ...iOS and Android both have autocomplete support
15:55:01 <maryjom> ack Chuck
15:55:33 <shadi> CA: definitely not solely focused on autocomplete
15:56:03 <maryjom> ack Sam
15:56:11 <shadi> ...but it was the available mechanism at the time to leverage this functionality
15:56:32 <shadi> SO: there are other operating systems beyond iOS and Android
15:57:07 <shadi> MJM: need to continue this conversation next week
15:58:31 <GreggVan> q+
15:58:56 <maryjom> ack gr
15:58:57 <daniel-montalvo> -me has a hard stop too
15:58:58 <Chuck> +1 I understand that in the other case it was NOT normative.
15:59:10 <pday> ack GreggVan
15:59:38 <shadi> GV: often we said "this would apply if you change word X" but not "if you change the requirement"
16:00:02 <shadi> MJM: will leave survey open
16:00:18 <shadi> ...will get back to it next week
16:00:33 <olivia-hogan-stark> Thanks for leaving it open!
16:00:40 <AnastasiaLanz> Thanks!
16:01:43 <maryjom> rrsagent, make minutes
16:01:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/12/01-wcag2ict-minutes.html maryjom
16:35:54 <Sam> I would not want to inflect my horrible spelling.  irc does not have spell check built into chat
16:36:44 <Sam> I mean inflict
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