15:13:30 RRSAgent has joined #wot-td 15:13:30 logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/11/16-wot-td-irc 15:13:37 meeting: WoT-WG - TD-TF 15:14:06 JKRhb has joined #wot-td 15:14:29 present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Ege_Korkan, Cristiano_Aguzzi, Daniel_Peintner, Jan_Romann, Sebastian_Kaebisch 15:14:42 dape has joined #wot-td 15:15:44 scribenick: JKRhb 15:16:32 topic: Minutes Review 15:16:43 agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#November_16.2C_2022 15:16:51 -> https://www.w3.org/2022/11/02-wot-td-minutes.html Nov-2 15:17:21 ek: (Goes over the minutes from two weeks ago -- last meeting was cancelled due to low turnout) 15:18:32 present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima 15:19:44 q+ 15:19:55 ... does anyone want to propose changes? 15:19:57 q+ 15:20:15 ack d 15:20:17 ack dape 15:20:18 ack k 15:20:36 q? 15:20:40 rrsagent, make log public 15:20:43 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:20:43 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/11/16-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 15:20:44 dp: (notices that the names are not rendered correctly, but this has been fixed in the meantime)) 15:20:52 ege: Any objections? 15:21:04 There are no objections, minutes are approved 15:21:20 topic: Topics for the Next Charter 15:22:07 ek: In PR 1035, I created an initial proposal for the next charter period 15:22:47 ... one topic are additional bindings (protocols/platforms such as BACnet and data formats like CBOR) 15:23:00 ... this is just a proposal, are there any comments? 15:23:01 q+ 15:23:17 ... in the main call, we discussed that each task force should come up with their own proposals 15:23:17 q+ 15:23:32 ... so we don't need main call approval 15:23:47 kaz: I've got the impression that binding templates are becoming more important 15:24:05 ... should we switch the binding documents to the REC track? 15:24:16 ek: They should definitely become normative 15:24:37 ... I need to have a closer look into the different document types, though 15:25:15 kaz: In this case, the question probably affects the whole working group and should be discussed with the rest of the group 15:25:40 ... this should also be included in the PRs proposal 15:25:57 s/PRs/PR's 15:26:08 ack k 15:26:10 ack c 15:26:21 ca: I am in favor of moving it to REC or registry track 15:26:36 i|PR 1035|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/1035 wot PR 1035 - Create new charter proposal for binding templates| 15:26:43 rrsagent, make log public 15:26:47 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:26:47 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/11/16-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 15:27:00 ... the validation of additional bindings/extensions should also be considered for the next charter period 15:27:08 chair: Ege/Sebastian 15:27:15 ek: (adds these points to the PR) 15:28:01 s/more important/more and more important/ 15:28:17 s/In this case/In that case/ 15:28:28 sk: Regarding OPC-UA, it was discussed in the main call that we could work on this together with the OPC Foundation 15:29:23 ek: If there are no additional points, then I would go ahead with merging 15:29:30 ... (merges the PR) 15:29:46 ... (also adds a comment with the discussion results) 15:30:02 topic: Binding Templates PRs 15:30:09 subtopic: PR #197 15:30:36 s/this should also be included in the PR's proposal/You should add the label of "WG New Charter Plans 2023" and also clearly state "this proposal to make Binding Templates normative should be discussed by the whole WG."/ 15:30:46 q+ 15:31:09 ek: In this PR, I propose changing all mentions of "Protocol Binding" to "Protocol Binding Template" 15:31:17 ... as we discussed before 15:32:42 ... I also made sure that the Core document is referenced correctly 15:33:19 ... I incorporated feedback from Cristiano, resolving all ReSpec errors 15:34:03 ... (proceeds with merging the PR since there are no objections) 15:34:12 subtopic: PR #198 15:34:52 ek: This PR is supposed to explain the relationship of the different Binding Template documents 15:35:04 ... for now it is just as a draft and still Work in Progress 15:35:42 ... I added a figure explaining the relationship, that might need some more work 15:35:52 sk: These are very useful additions 15:36:20 ek: The textual explanation is still a bit missing 15:36:55 ... Mizushima-San, could you show this proposal to stakeholders and ask for feedback? 15:37:31 ... (gets no answer from Mizushima-San) 15:37:44 ... I will tag you in the PR and also send you an email 15:39:46 jr: we had discussion about this but not in detail 15:40:08 ek: could you explain the discussion? 15:40:23 jr: klaus proposed to remove contentType value and propose own words 15:41:44 jr: I have proposed to keep the contentType and make sure to match the two values 15:42:15 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:42:15 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/11/16-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 15:42:37 q+ 15:42:42 ack k 15:43:18 q+ 15:43:25 qq+ 15:43:45 ack 15:43:49 s/ack// 15:43:51 ack k 15:43:53 ack k 15:43:53 kaz, you wanted to react to kaz 15:44:20 ek: I prefer jr approach 15:44:48 ek: can we have RFC assertions 15:47:38 kaz: you can still use the words in lowercase but it is confusing. We should avoid these terms if possible 15:49:09 ca: One more comment about the content of the PR 15:50:14 ... if we introduce this new keyword, validation might be harder since you still need a copy of the registry to match content-format and content type 15:53:33 jr: Content-Format would rather be a hint for Consumers 15:53:56 ek: If both contentType and Content-Format need to be present then the PR needs to be updated 15:54:17 ... has Klaus stated his preference regarding the two PRs yet? 15:54:38 jr: I think he was a bit skeptical still, but he hasn't reacted to the latest discussion 15:54:45 q? 15:54:46 ack c 15:54:53 subtopic: PR #189 15:54:53 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:54:53 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/11/16-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 15:55:03 ek: This is another CoAP PR 15:55:14 ... wants to remove the CoAP in RDF document 15:55:24 ... which is outdated 15:55:46 ... but it does not provide a replacement which would be required for providing a @context file 15:55:57 ... this was also noted by Cristiano 15:55:59 i/we had discussion/scribenick: Ege/ 15:56:06 q+ 15:56:13 i/One more co/scribnick: JKRhb/ 15:56:15 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:56:15 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/11/16-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 15:57:10 ca: We should at least create a simple @context file, mapping the current state of the document, not a full ontology 15:57:36 ek: Since it is very WoT-specific, the ontology does not need to be that large 15:57:55 i|In this PR, I propose|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/197 PR 197 - Adjust terminology usage in core document| 15:58:13 ca: We can move on with this PR, moving the ontology the archive. Then we can fix the problem later 15:58:28 ek (adds a summary comment to the PR) 15:58:31 i|This PR is supposed to|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/198 PR 198 - [WIP] Overview of the binding templates documents and relationship with others| 15:58:41 s/ek (/ek: ( 15:59:06 ... I will talk to Klaus regarding moving it the archive 15:59:18 i|This is another CoAP|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/189 PR 189 - Delete "CoAP in RDF"| 15:59:20 ... which should be located at the top-level of the repository 15:59:24 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:59:24 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/11/16-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 15:59:41 s/scribnick/scribenick/ 15:59:43 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:59:43 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/11/16-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 16:00:17 ... (adds an Archive folder with a README explaining its purpose) 16:00:30 ... any objections to adding this file? 16:00:51 ... (there are none, folder and README file have been created) 16:01:15 ... there have been merge conflicts with the PR anyway 16:01:34 scribenick: Ege 16:01:45 sebastian_ has joined #wot-td 16:02:17 topic: Thing Description 16:02:48 q? 16:02:50 ack c 16:04:04 q+ 16:05:01 sk: is there anyone planning to implement some features? 16:05:12 ek: playground can help with the text direction related assertions 16:05:15 q- 16:05:21 sk: how about the OAuth2 assertions 16:05:50 ca: I think the problem is device and code flow. Client is implemented I think 16:06:07 i|is there|-> https://w3c.github.io/wot-thing-description/#sotd SoTD section of the WoT Thing Description 1.1 Editor's Draft (which includes the list of features at risk)| 16:06:24 q? 16:07:00 dp: client is used 16:07:01 https://github.com/w3c/wot-testing/blob/main/data/input_2022/TD/node-wot/TDs/scopes.td.jsonld 16:07:43 https://github.com/w3c/wot-testing/blob/main/data/input_2022/TD/Ditto/TDs/ditto_oauth_floor-lamp-1.td.jsonld 16:08:29 ek: here are tds from ditto and node-wot 16:08:47 sk: nodewot is using client and ditto is using code 16:09:05 RRSAgent, please draft the minutes 16:09:05 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/11/16-wot-td-minutes.html JKRhb 16:09:50 sk: let's ask what is happening in saywot 16:09:58 q+ 16:11:20 kaz: we should skim the TD implementation report results 16:11:26 ack k 16:12:21 sk: so maybe we have implementations but they are not picked up 16:13:04 sk: we have only 9 or so not implemented assertions 16:15:16 subtopic: Pull Requests 16:15:30 sk: I would like to add the CR Exit criteria 16:16:12 subsubtopic: PR 1744 16:16:28 rrsagent, draft minutes 16:16:28 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/11/16-wot-td-minutes.html Ege 16:17:10 subtopic: PR 1744 16:17:47 sk: any objections? 16:17:56 dp: do we need something for PR exit? 16:18:18 q? 16:18:29 s/PR exit/Proposed REC exit/ 16:18:31 kaz: it is ac reps voting 16:18:38 sk: hearing no objections 16:18:47 s/ ac / AC / 16:18:59 rrsagent, draft minutes 16:18:59 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/11/16-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 16:19:37 i/SoTD section/subtopic: Features at risk/ 16:19:42 subtopic: PR 1684 16:19:54 sk: is there anything new? 16:20:00 ca: I did some work but no good news 16:20:02 s/subtopic: Pull Requests/subtopic: PR 1744/ 16:20:29 s/subsubtopic: PR 1744// 16:20:42 s/subtopic: PR 1744// 16:20:45 rrsagent, draft minutes 16:20:45 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/11/16-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 16:21:28 i|would like to add the CR|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1744 PR 1744 - CR exit statement in ED| 16:21:30 rrsagent, draft minutes 16:21:30 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/11/16-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 16:22:17 ca: if we solve one aspect, the other is broken 16:22:42 i|sk: is there anything new|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1684 PR 1684 - Fix shacl, context and ontology| 16:24:36 sk: it is a lot to process now but I see that we have a circle situation 16:24:59 q+ 16:25:48 sk: semantic experts should have a discussion on this. Maybe elodie if she is member now? 16:25:51 q? 16:26:00 q+ 16:26:26 kaz: we need siemens input about her status 16:27:47 kaz: about using ontologies, dependecy on ontologies is a bit problematic 16:28:01 sk: it has no impact on the td document itself 16:30:02 s/dependecy on ontologies is a bit problematic/dependency on some specific ontology as part of the normative description is problematic. WoT Thing Description itself should be available for various possible ontologies and schemas. We can mention "For example, this ontology can be used like this." as an informative example, though./ 16:30:24 sk: I will check Elodie's status and invite her one of the next td meetings 16:30:58 ack k 16:31:34 ca: I have lost connection, sorry for not answering. I can try to work around one problem 16:31:45 s/I have/kaz: OK. Note that we can ask existing experts within W3C like Manu for their advice too./ 16:31:54 rrsagent, draft minutes 16:31:54 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/11/16-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 16:32:36 i|is there anything new|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1684 PR 1684 - Fix shacl, context and ontology| 16:32:39 rrsagent, draft minutes 16:32:39 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/11/16-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 16:33:13 s/kaz: OK. Note that we can ask existing experts within W3C like Manu for their advice too./I have/ 16:33:29 i|I have lost|kaz: OK. Note that we can ask existing experts within W3C like Manu for their advice too.| 16:33:32 rrsagent, draft minutes 16:33:32 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/11/16-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 16:34:48 i/Note that/scribenick: kaz/ 16:34:59 i/I have lost/scribenick: Ege/ 16:35:00 rrsagent, draft minutes 16:35:00 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/11/16-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 16:35:01 subtopic: PR 1733 16:35:28 sk: Michael Lagally has used wrong list 16:35:29 q+ 16:35:36 ack c 16:36:17 i|MichaelLagally|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1733 PR 1733 - Overview - all TD implementations| 16:36:26 ack e 16:36:37 q+ 16:36:55 ek: we can bring his python script now and generate it again 16:37:04 sk: it is a nice to have document 16:37:52 ack k 16:38:01 rrsagent, draft minutes 16:38:01 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/11/16-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 16:38:59 cris_ has joined #wot-td 16:39:55 subtopic: Issue 1740 16:40:07 sk: A colleague of mine spotted this 16:40:52 ek: I have done a mistake and pushed it, is it ok 16:40:57 kaz: yes if the content is correct 16:41:05 sk: this is also just informative 16:42:41 s/pushed it/directly pushed it without using a Pullrequest/ 16:43:14 i|A col|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1740 Issue 1740 - Correct nitpick in TD JSON Schema| 16:43:49 subtopic: Issue 805 16:44:00 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/805 Issue 805 - Improve Explainer with User-Oriented Use Cases 16:44:27 sk: this is done with accessibility group and it is proposed closing for a while 16:44:50 (closed) 16:44:58 subtopic: Issue 839 16:45:18 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/839 Issue 839 - Clarify InteractionAffordance::contentType vs DataSchema::type 16:45:41 sk: this is done right? 16:45:53 ek: yes, this is a binding templates topic and text, xml bindings shoud help here 16:46:57 subtopic: Issue 883 16:47:10 sk: this is proposed closing 16:47:19 ek: husky hook is solving this sort of 16:47:23 dp: it is halfway there 16:48:33 ek: we should not automate it the way it is due to svg rendering process 16:48:49 dp: I also see unusual git diffs 16:49:52 i|this is pro|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/883 Issue 883 - Automate running TD rendering script| 16:51:11 subtopic: issue 893 16:52:17 sk: we can close it here right? 16:53:18 ek: yes, we can move to bindings as well. It is also important for websocket discussions later on 16:54:37 subtopic: issue 902 16:54:54 q+ 16:56:29 jr: we can transfer it instead of closing 16:56:44 sk: ok let's do it 16:57:08 sk: so what happened to the old one? 16:57:13 jr: it should redirect 16:57:14 i|we can close it|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/893 Issue 893 - Evaluate AsyncAPI| 16:58:44 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-discovery/issues/440 wot-discovery Issue 440 - Standardizing how to describe the location of the TD| 16:58:53 ca: you should update the propose closing label 16:59:33 subtopic: issue 903 16:59:39 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/903 Issue 903 - Thing Model of an SDF/OneDM Example 16:59:47 sk: Jan's tool have these examples so we can close this 17:00:34 [adjourned] 17:00:41 rrsagent, draft minutes 17:00:41 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/11/16-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 18:04:25 JKRhb has joined #wot-td 19:27:37 Zakim has left #wot-td