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18:57:37 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/11/16-waicc-irc
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18:57:39 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make log team
18:57:39 <MichaelC> meeting: WAI Team
18:57:39 <MichaelC> chair: MichaelC
18:57:39 <MichaelC> scribe: MichaelC
18:57:39 <MichaelC> scribeOptions: -final
18:57:40 <MichaelC> agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-cc/2022Nov/0006.html
18:57:41 <agendabot> clear agenda
18:57:41 <agendabot> agenda+ Updates on transitions
18:57:42 <agendabot> agenda+ Infoshare
18:57:42 <MichaelC> regrets: GeorgeK
18:57:44 <agendabot> agenda+ Cross-group review procedures
18:57:46 <agendabot> agenda+ Research partner organizations
18:57:49 <agendabot> agenda+ Exploration of GitHub projects
18:57:51 <agendabot> agenda+ Glossary project https://www.w3.org/2021/09/draft-wai-glossary.html
18:59:39 <MichaelC> present+
19:01:11 <lisa> lisa has joined #waicc
19:01:26 <tzviya> present+
19:02:49 <lisa> present+
19:03:14 <maryjom> maryjom has joined #waicc
19:03:41 <maryjom> scribe: maryjom
19:03:47 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
19:03:47 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Updates on transitions -- taken up [from agendabot]
19:04:05 <shawn> present+
19:04:51 <tzviya> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ac-forum/2022OctDec/0117.html
19:04:58 <maryjom> MichaelC: Michael C. will report to Ralph.
19:05:05 <tzviya> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ac-forum/2022OctDec/0116.html
19:05:25 <maryjom> ...Not an adverse thing. This is the only new item from the transitions.
19:06:12 <maryjom> lisa: Is there a way to send thanks?
19:06:34 <Brent> Brent has joined #waicc
19:06:46 <maryjom> MichaelC: There hasn't been a message on a public list to reply to. I'll think about that as a to-do.
19:07:01 <maryjom> ...We'd like to do a similar thing for Judy.
19:07:17 <maryjom> zakim, take up next
19:07:17 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, maryjom
19:07:24 <maryjom> q?
19:07:46 <shawn> q+
19:08:13 <maryjom> MichaelC: In short term, Judy is 20% of her time. Michael C., Kevin, and Ralph are all taking over different aspects of her responsibilities.
19:08:34 <maryjom> ...don't expect any impact, but longer term will need to figure out structure for moving forward.
19:08:48 <maryjom> ack matatk
19:08:57 <maryjom> ack shawn
19:09:01 <Ryladog> Ryladog has joined #waicc
19:09:17 <Ryladog> Present+ Katie_Haritos-Shea
19:09:21 <maryjom> shawn: In terms of Jeff and Ralph transition, WAI will still have good support.
19:09:37 <maryjom> zakim, next item
19:09:37 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Infoshare -- taken up [from agendabot]
19:09:56 <shawn> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-cc/2022Nov/0008.html
19:10:36 <daniel-montalvo> daniel-montalvo has joined #waicc
19:10:42 <maryjom> shawn: Thanks to all who contributed to EO videos. We have super-tight turnaround due to needing to get done by Dec.
19:11:03 <daniel-montalvo> present+ Daniel
19:11:29 <maryjom> ...Need help developing fake web pages for the video - this week and weekend. Can be in prototyping tool or html.
19:11:41 <Brent> We also call them "digital props"
19:12:01 <lisa> q+
19:12:12 <maryjom> jeanne: We did some work on fake web pages, so can send those to you
19:12:25 <lisa> q-
19:12:47 <maryjom> shawn: We'll be filming next week and will have drafts to review. No refilming, but if there's something we missed we want review/input on that.
19:12:49 <lisa> q+
19:13:17 <maryjom> ...Short turnaround - let us know if you can review.
19:13:41 <maryjom> Brent: This is a rough-cut of the video. It won't be polished in the first iteration.
19:13:47 <janina> janina has joined #waicc
19:13:51 <janina> present+
19:14:01 <maryjom> shawn: EO will be working on the polishing, but invite others to identify what is incorrect.
19:14:45 <maryjom> lisa: When you're making examples, and promote how you do things, and it isn't full of things we are asking people not to do.
19:15:10 <maryjom> shawn: Welcome you to look at the digital props and give feedback which we need this week.
19:15:29 <lisa> q+
19:15:42 <MichaelC> https://w3c.github.io/adapt-registry/
19:16:09 <maryjom> MichaelC: On behalf of Roy WAI Adapt is getting ready to publish 3 weeks from now.
19:16:38 <maryjom> janina: Mindful we need messaging for the FPWD and the CR adapt and will get in draft to Michael C. next week.
19:16:58 <maryjom> MichaelC: I shared steps for publishing that with Roy.
19:17:02 <MichaelC> ack l
19:17:04 <lisa> https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSc4ugu4iWRlEQ84-NWJmaiwtVWkXD1mhdCxB6MMy8N_mT56Bg/viewform
19:17:39 <Ryladog> Good idea Lisa
19:17:43 <maryjom> lisa: We put out a survey on our research documents. If you intend to use these documents, please fill out survey to help us prioritize work.
19:18:13 <maryjom> MichaelC: We'll circle back, this is our Agenda 4 item.
19:18:27 <maryjom> zakim, next item
19:18:27 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Cross-group review procedures -- taken up [from agendabot]
19:19:09 <maryjom> MichaelC: We had a discussion on how to do this. What can we do to make reviews more smooth?
19:19:39 <maryjom> MichaelC: What would be needed for discussion - list of challenges we've run up against, a proposal, or what?
19:20:09 <maryjom> Brent: Sometimes it is hard to know where to go to comunicate to the various groups so the communications go to the right place?
19:20:27 <Ryladog> Do we need a cross WG review for a11y, i18n, privacy, security?
19:20:29 <shawn> [ Shawn notes that we had a wiki page to list cross-group reviews, yet I don't think it got much traction? ]
19:20:39 <lisa> q+
19:20:44 <Ryladog> web page?
19:20:47 <maryjom> Brent: Directly to people, to certain listservers? Maybe if we had a list of places.
19:21:11 <MichaelC> q+
19:21:19 <MichaelC> q+ to mention call time
19:21:24 <MichaelC> q+ to say compiling list
19:21:25 <MichaelC> ack li
19:21:42 <MichaelC> q+ to say reduce dup
19:21:46 <kim_patch> kim_patch has joined #waicc
19:21:52 <MichaelC> q+ to address idiosyncratic
19:22:06 <maryjom> lisa: Things mentioned on the coordination calls and making use of liaisons is helpful. We have difficulty tracking comments in GitHub issues and knowing what's going on.
19:22:37 <kim_patch> Present+
19:22:48 <maryjom> lisa: Having meeting earlier in the day, or a special call to do this would be helpful for non-US participants.
19:23:16 <MichaelC> q+ to say timelines w/o adding
19:23:20 <maryjom> lisa: Awareness that resources exist is important, otherwise our feedback winds up late.
19:23:28 <Brent> q+ to say detail in proceedures about type of reivew, how to respond, where to respond, timeline.
19:24:03 <maryjom> lisa: The groups that are coming up with supplemental guidance is available with the resources we create.
19:24:22 <MichaelC> ack me
19:24:22 <Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to mention call time and to say compiling list and to say reduce dup and to address idiosyncratic and to say timelines w/o adding
19:24:32 <lisa> ack me
19:24:44 <maryjom> MichaelC: We have been trying to improve, but still can work on this. Want to move the call to a better time, but not just yet.
19:25:17 <maryjom> MichaelC: A compiled review list could be made for the WAI groups, but we have to make sure they are kept current.
19:25:48 <maryjom> MichaelC: Documentation of procedures and how much consistency or diversity is needed will need to be determined.
19:26:30 <maryjom> ...want to make sure the review requests are communicated in this call, with a reasonable timeline that can be done with advance notice it is coming.
19:26:30 <Brent> ack me
19:26:30 <Zakim> Brent, you wanted to say detail in proceedures about type of reivew, how to respond, where to respond, timeline.
19:26:35 <lisa> +1 to michals points
19:27:08 <maryjom> Brent: When EO is looking for review, we have a working group process and tend to expect other groups to follow that.
19:27:24 <MichaelC> q+ to mention review groups from others
19:27:40 <MichaelC> q+ to say review template
19:27:45 <maryjom> Brent: Reviews should communicate the essential aspects of the review - who, what, how long, how to respond, where to respond, and deadline.
19:28:07 <MichaelC> ack me
19:28:07 <Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to mention review groups from others and to say review template
19:28:08 <maryjom> ...Procedures should specify what things are required.
19:28:20 <maryjom> MichaelC: A review template might be helpful
19:29:00 <maryjom> MichaelC: Different groups or types of reviews might have different procedures or timelines so this should be somewhat flexible.
19:29:07 <maryjom> zakim, next item
19:29:07 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Research partner organizations -- taken up [from agendabot]
19:29:24 <lisa> q+
19:29:29 <MichaelC> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-cc/2022Nov/0005.html
19:30:05 <jeanne> jeanne has joined #waicc
19:30:19 <maryjom> lisa: A lot of our research needs to be updated, and we realize many research organizations will be doing literature reviews and similar work
19:31:12 <maryjom> ...We would love to piggyback off of their work. Say one organization did a literature review and we'd like to contact them to see what they can share.
19:31:36 <MichaelC> ack l
19:32:10 <MichaelC> q+
19:32:34 <maryjom> ...Would like to compile a list of contacts doing research. Should the focus be wider accessibility, not just COGA topics? Would others benefit from this resource?
19:32:45 <kim_patch> q+
19:32:55 <maryjom> ack kim_patch
19:33:24 <maryjom> kim_patch: We are doing the same in mobile and are compiling a list. There's not enough research and it isn't easily discoverable.
19:33:59 <maryjom> ...We have a spreadsheet to show what research is happening and a listing of missing research - where it is needed.
19:34:13 <maryjom> ack MichaelC
19:34:50 <maryjom> MichaelC: I'd like us long-term to be coordinated with research and the RQTF task force is a good place to get together with COGA and Mobile TF
19:34:51 <shawn> [ low vision could use as well (when we get going again) ]
19:35:07 <maryjom> ...and bring back what you do to this group.
19:35:48 <maryjom> ...I will check back in about 3 months to see what progress has been made.
19:36:12 <maryjom> lisa: We're looking for existing literary reviews. We have a database of research.
19:36:19 <maryjom> kim_patch: Us too.
19:36:33 <maryjom> zakim, next item
19:36:33 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Exploration of GitHub projects -- taken up [from agendabot]
19:37:26 <maryjom> shawn: I've been using it with APG.
19:37:30 <MichaelC> https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/13
19:38:02 <maryjom> MichaelC: Does anyone have any advice that has used projects?
19:38:14 <lisa> this is giving me a 401 error
19:38:55 <maryjom> ...we can circle back periodically to be able to share tips for using tools such as GitHub project. You have to be logged into GitHub to use the above project link.
19:38:59 <maryjom> zakim, next item
19:38:59 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- Glossary project https://www.w3.org/2021/09/draft-wai-glossary.html -- taken up [from agendabot]
19:39:05 <MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/2021/09/draft-wai-glossary.html
19:39:47 <maryjom> MichaelC: A little over a year ago I began compiling glossary items from various WAI specs, including many duplicates.
19:40:26 <kim_patch> q+
19:40:40 <lisa> Q+
19:40:55 <maryjom> ...We have to pick which terms should have one common definition, or allowing the duplicates to continue?  What is the priority - should we do this, delay, or drop this work?
19:41:00 <janina> q+
19:41:02 <maryjom> ack kim_patch
19:41:18 <MichaelC> q+ to ask gsheet?
19:41:23 <Ryladog> Agree with Kim - interactive
19:41:49 <maryjom> kim_patch: I started working on this. If we had a tool where people could quickly comment this is a perfect thing to quickly eliminate redundant terms or come up with a common definition
19:42:08 <maryjom> kim_patch: Needs to be interactive. Don't want to abandon resources like this.
19:42:23 <maryjom> ack lisa
19:42:30 <Brent> +1 to Kim's comments
19:43:08 <maryjom> lisa: It's confusing when people use different definitions or different terms to mean the same thing. A consolidated dictionary is good.
19:43:39 <kim_patch> q+
19:43:51 <maryjom> lisa: "Focus" for someone with a cognitive disability is very different from "focus" in WCAG, so there's two very different definitions.
19:45:13 <maryjom> lisa: Need to have someone who is responsible for ushering the definition and handling comments, keeping primary expertise with the group where the term has specific meaning.
19:45:31 <maryjom> ack janina
19:45:31 <MichaelC> ack ja
19:46:21 <maryjom> janina: When there isn't agreement between ourselves, we can't communicate the desired definition to others.
19:46:53 <maryjom> ...Need a process or tooling that works for all who are working on this.
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19:47:22 <maryjom> ...Need to focus on places where there are clashes of definitions. A good first pass to take.
19:48:47 <maryjom> ...dictionaries do have multiple definitions, depending on use and there would be legitimate reasons for that and describe where and why they are used with different meaning
19:48:49 <Ryladog> +1 to Janina
19:48:51 <MichaelC> ack me
19:48:51 <Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to ask gsheet?
19:49:41 <maryjom> MichaelC: There is a lot of interest in this project. If content is moved to a Google sheet, is that a good enough interactive tool?
19:49:58 <janina> q+
19:50:25 <maryjom> kim_patch: Yes and if there's issues, someone from Google and let them know the use cases where the tool is difficult or doesn't work if that's the case.
19:51:11 <maryjom> kim_patch: If there are different definitions for a term, this is good to get people together so help everyone understand why there are different definitions.
19:51:55 <MichaelC> q?
19:52:01 <MichaelC> ack k
19:52:08 <maryjom> ack janina
19:52:24 <MichaelC> q+
19:52:36 <daniel-montalvo> q+
19:52:42 <jamesn> jamesn has joined #waicc
19:52:49 <maryjom> janina: Sheets has a bunch of proprietary shortcuts that are hard to remember or learn.
19:53:02 <jamesn> rrsagent, make minutes
19:53:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/11/16-waicc-minutes.html jamesn
19:53:24 <MichaelC> ack me
19:53:37 <maryjom> janina: It would be nice if the same commands were available from the browser.
19:53:42 <jamesn> q+
19:54:20 <MichaelC> ack d
19:54:20 <maryjom> MichaelC: Would it work if we come up with a workflow where we can start in a Google sheet and find a way to make the process work for us.
19:54:57 <MichaelC> ack j
19:55:04 <maryjom> daniel-montalvo: Filtering when there's merged cells is also difficult, making spreadsheets difficult.
19:55:45 <maryjom> jamesn: Excel has the same collaborative ability when the document is in the cloud.
19:55:52 <jeanne> List of WCAG3 Testing websites -> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/silver/wiki/Conformance_Architecture_Testing#Validity_Testing
19:56:23 <maryjom> lisa: Not everyone has paid a subscription fee so may not be able to use Excel.
19:56:23 <Ryladog> q+
19:56:45 <maryjom> MichaelC: I'll start in Google sheets and maybe Excel as well.
19:56:53 <maryjom> ack Ryladog
19:57:11 <maryjom> Ryladog: Google sheets can be used to open an Excel file.
19:57:25 <maryjom> MichaelC: Not sure how well merging changes works between tools.
19:58:02 <maryjom> ...I'll circle back next time and we'll go from there.
19:58:50 <maryjom> janina: Could Microsoft comp the W3C access to 360?
19:58:50 <Ryladog> Good idea Janina
19:59:08 <maryjom> MichaelC: I'll connect with Phillipe to see if this is possible.
19:59:11 <Ryladog> Office 365
19:59:29 <lisa> thanks Michael
19:59:29 <maryjom> s/360/Office 365/
20:00:05 <maryjom> MichaelC: I announce these calls in UTC, but the meeting invites are in Boston time.
20:00:33 <maryjom> MichaelC: Next meeting is 30 Nov. then 14 Dec. and we won't meet for a month. Will try to come up with a better time in the new year.
20:01:01 <maryjom> MichaelC: I'll be sending out a scheduling poll later.
20:01:08 <maryjom> rrsagent, make minutes
20:01:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/11/16-waicc-minutes.html maryjom
20:01:38 <janina> janina has left #waicc
21:49:47 <maryjom> zakim, bye
21:49:47 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been tzviya, matatk, jeanne, kevin, shawn, valerie_(spectranaut_), MichaelC, lisa, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Daniel, janina, kim_patch
21:49:47 <Zakim> Zakim has left #waicc
21:49:54 <maryjom> rrsagent, bye
21:49:54 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
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22:48:03 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/11/16-waicc-irc