13:52:34 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #i18n
13:52:34 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/10/27-i18n-irc
13:52:39 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #i18n
13:52:52 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:52:55 <trackbot> Meeting: Internationalization Working Group Teleconference
13:52:55 <trackbot> Date: 27 October 2022
13:52:55 <agendabot> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/59c53b6b-4dcc-4d0e-9b1f-13949f19a6ac/20221027T150000
13:52:55 <agendabot> clear agenda
13:52:55 <agendabot> agenda+ Agenda Review
13:52:55 <agendabot> agenda+ Action Items
13:52:58 <agendabot> agenda+ Info Share
13:53:00 <agendabot> agenda+ RADAR Review
13:53:01 <addison> Chair: Addison Phillips
13:53:02 <agendabot> agenda+ Pending Issue Review
13:53:05 <agendabot> agenda+ I18N-glossary
13:53:07 <agendabot> agenda+ String-Meta
13:53:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/10/27-i18n-minutes.html addison
13:53:09 <agendabot> agenda+ unicode-range issue
13:53:12 <agendabot> agenda+ Non-ASCII characters in CSP policy
13:53:14 <agendabot> agenda+ AOB?
13:53:46 <xfq> xfq has joined #i18n
13:56:40 <addison> present+ Addison, Fuqiao, Atsushi
13:59:54 <addison> present+ Bert
14:00:22 <JcK> JcK has joined #i18n
14:00:51 <Bert> scribe: Bert
14:01:58 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 1
14:01:58 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Agenda Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:02:00 <addison> agenda?
14:02:23 <fsasaki> fsasaki has joined #i18n
14:02:26 <fsasaki> present+
14:02:57 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 2
14:02:57 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Action Items -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:03:10 <addison> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open
14:04:56 <Bert> addison: action-1183, we scheduled a call but person didn't show up.
14:05:21 <Bert> atsushi_: action-1196 next meeting is next Tuesday.
14:06:23 <JcK> present+ JcK
14:06:33 <Bert> r12a: will merge actions 1203 and 1173
14:07:46 <Bert> addison: What email address to use for Marcus Shur(sp?) at Unicode? Didn't get response.
14:08:12 <r12a> https://www.unicode.org/consortium/props-algorithms.html
14:08:40 <Bert> r12a: Marcus is the only chair, but there are other people in the group, see ^^
14:08:49 <addison> s/Shur/Scherer/
14:09:11 <Bert> s/Marcus/Markus/g
14:09:37 <Bert> ... You can try writing to all of them.
14:09:53 <addison> close action-1203
14:09:53 <trackbot> Closed action-1203.
14:10:20 <addison> action-1212?
14:10:20 <trackbot> action-1212 -- Addison Phillips to Merge specdev pr 80 and copy glossary items to glossary -- due 2022-10-13 -- OPEN
14:10:20 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1212
14:11:43 <Bert> r12a: I sent some editorial comments on the PR (re: action-1212)
14:11:50 <addison> action-1214?
14:11:50 <trackbot> action-1214 -- Richard Ishida to Finalize and publish font styles and fallbacks doc -- due 2022-10-27 -- OPEN
14:11:50 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1214
14:11:54 <addison> close action-1214
14:11:54 <trackbot> Closed action-1214.
14:12:02 <Bert> r12a: I did action-1214.
14:12:33 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 3
14:12:33 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Info Share -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:12:35 <Bert> addison: action-1215, will schedule after the DST time change.
14:14:00 <r12a> The Script Links page has been updated to support Unicode 15. Also some addition information added (esp. language use), and bugs fixed.
14:14:13 <r12a> https://twitter.com/r12a/status/1585579053125406720
14:14:21 <Bert> addison: I updated the calendar with more iterations of this call. Time will change next week and after for some people, as the time is fixed in Europe.
14:14:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/10/27-i18n-minutes.html addison
14:15:08 <Bert> r12a: I updated some pages for Unicode 15, see ^^
14:15:25 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 4
14:15:25 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- RADAR Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:15:34 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1
14:16:01 <Bert> addison: I filed trace-context issues to awaitinf comment resolution.
14:16:26 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 4
14:16:26 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- RADAR Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:16:33 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 5
14:16:33 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Pending Issue Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:16:42 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3Apending
14:17:06 <Bert> addison: Some incoming issues.
14:17:29 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/7872
14:17:56 <r12a> https://www.w3.org/International/i18n-tests/run?base=html/rendering/interactive-media/text-rendered-in-native-user-interfaces&batch=native-user-interfaces&test=native-user-interfaces-001.html
14:18:00 <Bert> r12a: I took a look at it.
14:18:44 <Bert> ... This test ^^ shows different in Firefox and Edge. Scrollbar left or right.
14:18:56 <Bert> ... But that is tangential.
14:19:18 <Bert> ... Question is if user could switch the side, based on being left-handed, e.g.
14:19:33 <Bert> addison: Would that be a CSS thing or a browser setting?
14:19:58 <Bert> r12a: It is about a Media Query for it.
14:20:13 <Bert> ... I can respond.
14:20:27 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1590
14:21:22 <Bert> addison: Somebody wants to mark up language fragments inside an attribute. Richard already responded.
14:21:35 <Bert> xfq: Should remove the "pending" label.
14:22:09 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1589
14:22:27 <Bert> r12a: I think we should all look at these issues as they come in.
14:24:02 <Bert> addison: I talked at TPAC with people about the language to show a payment request in. They added it to their spec, that's why it is marked "close?". OK to close?
14:24:15 <Bert> xfq: Looks good to me.
14:24:39 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1577
14:24:48 <Bert> s/people/Ian Jacobs and Stephen McGruer/
14:25:34 <Bert> addison: About gloassary and the term natural language vs human language.
14:26:12 <Bert> ... We use natural, WCAG uses human.
14:26:47 <Bert> ... Do we want to change? Or add a term?
14:27:32 <Bert> JcK: Natural language is the term everybody understands. Might create confusion if we change. Or add a footnote.
14:28:06 <Bert> ... Code is a human language, too.
14:28:13 <xfq> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-glossary/issues/16
14:28:43 <Bert> addison: Who wants to own that issue 16? I'll take it.
14:28:57 <addison> agenda?
14:29:18 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 8
14:29:18 <Zakim> agendum 8 -- unicode-range issue -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:30:14 <JcK> @Bert: actually two problems there.  One is "code" as in "programming language" and the like.  The other is "code" as secrecy, with encryption being a subset of that category.
14:30:27 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1602
14:30:44 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/7921
14:31:56 <Bert> addison: CSS has a unicode-range descriptor. It accepts code-point ranges.
14:33:00 <Bert> ... I pointed them at ICU and Unicode regular expressions.
14:33:20 <Bert> ... Do we add a label needs-resolution or just track?
14:33:33 <Bert> r12a: Probably just track at the moment.
14:34:46 <Bert> ... About your comment in the issue whether greek is equiv to ISO15924 Grek: I hope not.
14:34:46 <addison> https://drafts.csswg.org/css-fonts/#unicode-range-desc
14:35:32 <Bert> atsushi_: I think some languages are unified.
14:35:50 <Bert> xfq: Many punctuations and symbols are shared by scripts.
14:36:19 <Bert> ... Author needs to specify script explicitly in the style sheet.
14:36:47 <Bert> addison: When it says "arabic", does that mean also all the compatibility characters, e.g?
14:38:50 <Bert> xfq: Code-point syntax hard to read. Maybe put the characters themselves?
14:39:08 <Bert> addison: How useful is the feature?
14:39:32 <Bert> r12a: There is debate. It doesn't always do what you expect.
14:40:36 <Bert> ... Some presentation forms for Arabic are often used. But even if you can write the character instead of the code point, you still have to find out what the first character in the range is.
14:40:50 <Bert> xfq: More useful for single characters.
14:41:39 <Bert> r12a: But if you put characters from rtl scripts in the value, the value may actually become harder to read.
14:42:43 <Bert> addison: CSS doesn't currently have Unicode regular expression, does it?
14:42:50 <Bert> ... JavaScript does.
14:43:37 <Bert> xfq: There is a long-standing issue, but there are performance problems.
14:43:40 <xfq> https://github.com/w3c/clreq/blob/6fd8d73e1ccd48d04c5da8dde0d53a65e864febb/local.css#L1-L11
14:44:41 <Bert> xfq: Example of a style sheet I've written with unicode-range ^^
14:45:31 <Bert> addison: Anything we want to do with it? Let CSS tussle with it for a while?
14:45:42 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 9
14:45:42 <Zakim> agendum 9 -- Non-ASCII characters in CSP policy -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:46:15 <r12a> Using unicode-range in font-face in CSS https://r12a.github.io/blog/201110
14:46:53 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 9
14:46:53 <Zakim> agendum 9 -- Non-ASCII characters in CSP policy -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:46:56 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1603
14:47:08 <r12a> Using unicode-range in font-face in CSS https://r12a.github.io/blog/201110#20120131
14:47:15 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/webappsec-csp/issues/473
14:51:51 <Bert> JcK: Rational would be to make it correspond to A labels, but that needs a lot of testing.
14:52:04 <xfq> something like this: Content-Security-Policy-Report-Only: script-src 'self'; report-uri https://今日/
14:52:28 <Bert> addison: Could the browser do the work of encoding, assuming the value is in UTF-8?
14:53:15 <Bert> JcK: Differences in edge cases between UTR-46 and IDNA.
14:54:03 <Bert> ... WhatWG only looks at what browser does. But other things count, too, such as DNS.
14:54:38 <Bert> addison: We also looked at email recently.
14:55:01 <Bert> JcK: Email is extremely precise.
14:55:39 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 6
14:55:39 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- I18N-glossary -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:56:50 <Bert> addison: I asked input events to define "@@ cluster"
14:57:07 <xfq> s/@@ cluster/grapheme cluster/
14:57:28 <Bert> ... What is our policy going forward? We said glossary would remain informative.
14:57:49 <Bert> ... But there may be definitions we want to point people to.
14:58:05 <Bert> ... Marcos suggested they could be put in the Infra spec.
14:58:33 <Bert> r12a: We need a "W3C glossary".
14:58:56 <Bert> ... People have worked on it in the past.
14:59:00 <Bert> addison: Normative?
14:59:11 <Bert> r12a: At least authoritative.
14:59:27 <Bert> ... I might ask Dom what happened to it.
15:00:26 <Bert> ... We now have tools like ReSpec that make it easier to update the glossary.
15:01:11 <Bert> addison: In any case, we still want our glossary.
15:01:42 <Bert> r12a: Would we? If we can easily update a W3C glossary...
15:02:21 <Bert> addison: We have definitions like for grapheme cluster. I'm not unhappy with them, but they are not normative.
15:03:00 <Bert> r12a: SpecDev is not going to be a Rec either.
15:03:20 <Bert> addison: No, but it says what to write in your own spec.
15:04:16 <Bert> ... We have a normative definition in Charmod, but it makes me itch.
15:06:25 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 10
15:06:25 <Zakim> agendum 10 -- AOB? -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:08:13 <Bert> addison: Watch your calendar for the right time of this telcon next week.
15:08:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/10/27-i18n-minutes.html addison