13:14:37 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #coga
13:14:37 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/10/20-coga-irc
13:14:42 <Rachael> zakim, start meeting
13:14:43 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:14:44 <Zakim> Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
13:14:51 <Rachael> agenda?
13:14:59 <Rachael> zakim, clear agenda
13:14:59 <Zakim> agenda cleared
13:18:50 <Rachael> agenda+ Collaborative tools https://docs.google.com/document/d/1odt2eWGeJT06S2xdW2H3ymTHOTa0QWkscNSEphNI1og/edit#heading=h.npvj74y3p2d9
13:19:00 <Rachael> agenda+ Updates with EO and any other urgent business
13:28:33 <Rachael> agenda+ Reminder send out survey for research papers https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSc4ugu4iWRlEQ84-NWJmaiwtVWkXD1mhdCxB6MMy8N_mT56Bg/viewform
13:29:34 <Rachael> agenda+ Updates with task requests and actions https://docs.google.com/document/d/15HtPkkYx1CIl6bAwP2nsSZKhqTVbqcuMDRz5RmtmvXg/edit#
13:58:05 <Rachael> agenda?
13:58:10 <Rachael> present+
14:01:31 <kirkwood> present+
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14:02:08 <Becca_Monteleone> present+
14:02:20 <Rachael> scribe: kirkwood
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14:05:07 <Rachael> TOPIC: WAI transition
14:05:16 <MichaelC> * MichaelC_ has quit (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
14:05:17 <kirkwood> MC: announcements went out W3C WAI updates
14:05:31 <MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/blog/2022/10/w3c-wai-updates-october-2022/
14:05:49 <kirkwood> MC: Judy Brewer stepping back as WAI director
14:06:20 <kirkwood> … I’m stepping up in some interim roles to keep WAI moving with KEvin White as well
14:06:48 <kirkwood> MC: will continue WCAG 3 work and will see how evolves, Shawn Roy and Daniel will help fill gapes
14:07:03 <kirkwood> … next 3 months up in air for ligal transition
14:07:12 <kirkwood> s/ligal/legal
14:07:29 <kirkwood> MC: hopefully in new year have strong plan moving forward
14:07:44 <Rachael> zakim, take up item 1
14:07:44 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Collaborative tools https://docs.google.com/document/d/1odt2eWGeJT06S2xdW2H3ymTHOTa0QWkscNSEphNI1og/edit#heading=h.npvj74y3p2d9 -- taken up [from Rachael]
14:08:02 <Roy> present+
14:08:09 <MichaelC> present+
14:08:10 <kirkwood> RM: a lot of changes from MC
14:08:18 <kirkwood> … on to collaboration tools
14:08:48 <kirkwood> … took anction last week to speak to AG chairs and platform chairs to figure out CSC
14:08:52 <julierawe> julierawe has joined #coga
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14:09:16 <kirkwood> … the timeline has been revised originally august, not tools meeting before january or february
14:09:26 <julierawe> present+
14:09:28 <kirkwood> … from AG won’t object to publishing
14:09:54 <kirkwood> … compromise putting editors note in that would link to wikipage which will share
14:10:27 <kirkwood> … challenges with tools, if we agree with wiki COGA will continue with formal feedback somewhere before December
14:10:40 <Rachael> q?
14:11:00 <kirkwood> RM: it is in an email as well
14:11:15 <Rachael> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/Feedback_on_CTAUR#Previous_Feedback_on_Tools_and_Working_with_COGA
14:11:32 <kirkwood> RM: would like to share a wiki page as a temporary holding page, not formal
14:12:14 <kirkwood> … I’m sharing wiki page going through describing it
14:13:12 <Rachael> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bxhXLpsqIy5p6zZHxlsSvjmhUjFqSFGCgE4eelRJxH8/edit#
14:13:33 <Rachael> Uncommon terminology causes difficulty (examples: IRC instead of chat; "push" and "fork" in Github)
14:13:44 <kirkwood> … first doc is issues with tools, key points uncommon terms...
14:13:51 <Rachael> Remembering commands and processes. These should be as intuitive as possible and well documented in a location that can be easily found.
14:13:58 <kirkwood> … second one
14:14:28 <Rachael> Learning any kind of code to use a tool presents a barrier. Github's reliance on HTML and Wiki's mark up presents barriers. Wiki and document style tools sometimes make it easier with editing tools
14:14:29 <kirkwood> … third is learning code
14:14:52 <Rachael> Unexpected behaviors such as overriding the right click menu in some of these tools makes it hard for people to access expected behaviors such as spell check
14:14:53 <kirkwood> … unexpected behaviors
14:15:13 <Rachael> In complex collaboration tools (example: Github), infrequent use combined with an intimidating platform makes adoption very difficult and creates a steep learning curve
14:15:19 <kirkwood> .. (going through wiki)
14:15:24 <Rachael> In Github, there does not seem to be a simple revision process
14:15:27 <Rachael> q?
14:15:40 <Rachael> Reviewing pull requests that require both horizontal and vertical scrolling causes difficulty, the text does not wrap by default
14:15:49 <Rachael> Remembering passwords and getting through CAPTCHA causes issues
14:16:04 <Rachael> System-generated email is overwhelming and difficult to get through. Difficult to sort actionable items and items that need attention from everything else
14:16:18 <Rachael> In general, conversations need to occur in a single location. Tracking them across multiple locations is difficult.
14:16:34 <Rachael> Important to create a culture where people are comfortable asking for help but even more important to select tools that allow people to work independently.
14:16:35 <kirkwood> RM: simple revision process, wrapping text, passwords, actionable items in email, tracking across multiple locations (continuing with wiki)
14:16:53 <Becca_Monteleone> +1 looks good to me!
14:17:10 <kirkwood> +1 to placeholder
14:17:20 <Rachael> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2021Oct/att-0004/How_to_work_with_COGA_Presentation_TPAC2021.pdf
14:17:26 <kirkwood> RM: … TPAC takeaways
14:17:56 <Rachael> Need a persistent place to follow along (lacking one source of truth) and a way to follow threads from multiple sources
14:18:11 <kirkwood> RM: continuing with tool related points from wiki
14:18:19 <Rachael> Challenge: Keeping track of many kinds of interactions (IRC, wikis, Github content, Google Docs, Email, etc) - Need an agenda and documents ahead of time and a hub with all links and instructions
14:18:57 <kirkwood> Very good
14:18:58 <Rachael> Challenge: Github - Finding Github comments is challenging for many people - Involves a lot of jargon and steps - Threads are hard to follow - Too many Github alerts
14:19:14 <Rachael> Challenge: Remembering acronyms and processes - Explain acronyms in agenda and share explanatory links
14:20:47 <Rachael> kirkwood: Suggest change to better clarify acronyms
14:21:23 <Rachael> q?
14:21:51 <kirkwood> in context Jk suggested
14:22:01 <Rachael> Challenge: Following long threads of conversation - Use clear subject lines and changing them when the content changes - Use clear headings and a short summary for longer content - Schedule meetings in calls and send a calendar invitation
14:22:04 <kirkwood> RM: asking if other missing items?
14:22:45 <kirkwood> RM: showing current draft of editors note
14:24:10 <kirkwood> RM: intent to gain wider review and solicit feedback on user needs, including collaboration tools, encouraging feedback
14:24:14 <Rachael> link to draft text: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BuiU126sZ1L0sq9aJsjXQh-3gvXonU5uYAqzYkGQjPw/edit
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14:24:41 <kirkwood> \RM: concerns with wording?
14:25:45 <kirkwood> RM: this would be from at least a COGA perspective move forward
14:25:55 <kirkwood> Julie: comfortable
14:26:01 <kirkwood> Avvey: yes
14:26:21 <kirkwood> AAvvey/Abbey
14:26:34 <Rachael> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1odt2eWGeJT06S2xdW2H3ymTHOTa0QWkscNSEphNI1og/edit#heading=h.npvj74y3p2d9
14:26:37 <kirkwood> Vecca: yes
14:28:01 <kirkwood> RM: we were working on collaboration tool feedback, should we walk through this, or is there another to work on feedback at this time?
14:29:14 <Rachael> scribe: Rachael
14:32:11 <Becca_Monteleone> +1
14:33:24 <Rachael> Julie suggested changing the first paragraph to a bulleted list. Please +1 if you agree.
14:33:42 <Rachael> Kirkwood and Rachael +1
14:33:48 <kirkwood> +1
14:36:06 <Rachael> Discussion of Jennie Delisi comment on Issues using W3C Tools and Processes
14:36:25 <Rachael> q+
14:36:48 <Rachael> ack Rachael
14:38:02 <Rachael> Rachael: Chair hat off would it be easier to add comments directly to a Google doc that mimics the spec?
14:38:09 <Rachael> Kirkwood: Yes absolutely.
14:38:39 <Abbey_D> +1
14:38:46 <Rachael> Abbey: Agreed. A lot of going back and forth. EAsy to get lost because it is not the actual spec.
14:39:32 <Rachael> Rachael: I will circle back with Jennie and Lisa.
14:39:43 <Rachael> Kirkwood: I think that is a good way forward.
14:39:50 <kirkwood> RM: whet do we feel about this process?
14:40:05 <Rachael> scribe: kirkwood
14:40:12 <Rachael> zakim, take up next item
14:40:12 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Updates with EO and any other urgent business -- taken up [from Rachael]
14:40:16 <kirkwood> RM: i’ll put into a doc
14:41:15 <kirkwood> JR: a handful met yesterday with EO went through comments on doc, next step is for me to submit github issues
14:41:27 <julierawe> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WIUsN_iZESQfwCqTUl6w_ukm7oNwTQTCfBZcBIQO7cE/edit#heading=h.setmoku5uplj
14:41:46 <Rachael> regrets: Lisa, Jennie, Rashmi, Rain, Aaron, EA, Kris Anne
14:42:24 <kirkwood> JR: some of concerns were confusing description of reading dsabilities. biggest issue to untanglr
14:42:39 <kirkwood> … another was dyscalcula.
14:43:03 <kirkwood> … another Luis down syndrome where personal story doesn’t mention dyscalculie
14:43:19 <Rachael> Does everyone agree with moving this into GitHub issues?
14:43:24 <Abbey_D> +1
14:43:26 <Becca_Monteleone> +1
14:43:26 <kirkwood> +1
14:43:29 <Rachael> +1
14:43:29 <julierawe> +1
14:44:09 <kirkwood> JR: i sent an email last call need to know by today
14:44:27 <Rachael> zakim, take up next item
14:44:27 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Reminder send out survey for research papers https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSc4ugu4iWRlEQ84-NWJmaiwtVWkXD1mhdCxB6MMy8N_mT56Bg/viewform -- taken up [from
14:44:31 <Zakim> ... Rachael]
14:44:32 <kirkwood> RM: anything else urgent?
14:45:11 <Rachael> zakim, take up next item
14:45:11 <kirkwood> RML: feel free to share on social media
14:45:11 <Zakim> agendum 3 was just opened, Rachael
14:45:19 <Rachael> reminder given.
14:45:22 <Rachael> zakim, close item 3
14:45:22 <Zakim> agendum 3, Reminder send out survey for research papers https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSc4ugu4iWRlEQ84-NWJmaiwtVWkXD1mhdCxB6MMy8N_mT56Bg/viewform, closed
14:45:26 <Rachael> zakim, take up item 4
14:45:26 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
14:45:26 <Zakim> 4. Updates with task requests and actions https://docs.google.com/document/d/15HtPkkYx1CIl6bAwP2nsSZKhqTVbqcuMDRz5RmtmvXg/edit# [from Rachael]
14:45:26 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Updates with task requests and actions https://docs.google.com/document/d/15HtPkkYx1CIl6bAwP2nsSZKhqTVbqcuMDRz5RmtmvXg/edit# -- taken up [from Rachael]
14:45:45 <kirkwood> RM: update on tasks requests and actions
14:46:07 <kirkwood> RM: mental health?
14:46:20 <kirkwood> RM: structure review for content usable?
14:46:43 <kirkwood> JR: Lisa had some concerns and sent alt version
14:47:27 <kirkwood> JR: clear language holding pattern for EO feedback, waiting from feedback from TPAC, rain is getting some back in September
14:47:34 <Rachael> q?
14:47:36 <kirkwood> RM: we are in process at AG level doing that
14:48:02 <kirkwood> RM: test plan and strategy?
14:48:15 <kirkwood> RM: research plan strategy
14:49:18 <kirkwood> RM: images moving forward
14:49:42 <Rachael> Working on clear language to come up with a test for at least one clear language criteria
14:49:53 <kirkwood> Becca: complete
14:51:51 <kirkwood> survey is in process is my understanding
14:52:17 <kirkwood> JR: got ready for TPAC ins September for clearl language
14:52:46 <kirkwood> JR: eo update scripts, once update text part of things
14:53:11 <kirkwood> RM: anonmyous perticipation on hold
14:54:22 <kirkwood> RM: any topics
14:54:24 <Rachael> TOPIC: Any other topics or actions we need to discuss?
14:55:36 <Rachael> Kirkwood: Scripts have been a focus and are very important for us to look at because this is a strong characterization of what COGA does and who it serves.  It is our responsibility to educate about this. We need a united, strong voice and strong feedback.
14:55:59 <Rachael> ...possibility that the issues for COGA can be minimized if these aren't characterized properly.
14:56:43 <Rachael> rrasagent, make minutes
14:56:46 <kirkwood> present+
14:56:48 <Rachael> zakim, make minutes
14:56:48 <Zakim> I don't understand 'make minutes', Rachael
14:57:01 <Roy> RRSAgent, make minutes
14:57:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/10/20-coga-minutes.html Roy
14:57:22 <Rachael> Rrsagent, make logs world
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