13:07:16 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #adapt
13:07:16 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/10/17-adapt-irc
13:07:18 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:07:21 <trackbot> Meeting: WAI Adapt Task Force Teleconference
13:07:21 <trackbot> Date: 17 October 2022
13:07:47 <sharon> chair: Sharon
13:08:27 <sharon> agenda+ New TAG and public explainers (Janina)
13:08:39 <sharon> agenda+ CR updates for new spec focused only on symbols
13:08:54 <sharon> agenda+ How do we show TAG the Next billion users.
13:09:06 <sharon> agenda+ WHATWG – reserve “adapt-“ prefix (Do we go to symbols CR with data- or adapt-?)
13:09:17 <sharon> agenda+ BCI Registry Specification
13:09:28 <sharon> agenda+ CSS (i.e., media-queries) & Microformats (Matthew)
13:09:33 <MichaelC> MichaelC has joined #adapt
13:09:42 <sharon> agenda+ Purpose - Can we add to the list of WCAG auto-complete attributes?
13:09:58 <sharon> agenda+ Distraction - Write up use cases that don't touch advertising.
13:10:09 <sharon> agenda+ Discuss @rel vs. purpose/destination/action -- add to the explainer
13:10:19 <sharon> agenda+ Content Module Implementations Status, focus on new candidates
13:10:38 <sharon> agenda+ Respond to issue #203 (Janina)
13:10:41 <Github1> https://github.com/w3c/adapt/issues/203 : Unclear how the Bliss symbol examples should work with i10n/i18n.
13:11:14 <sharon> agenda?
13:11:20 <Github1> https://github.com/w3c/adapt/issues/203 : Unclear how the Bliss symbol examples should work with i10n/i18n.
13:59:29 <matatk> matatk has joined #adapt
13:59:55 <matatk> matatk has joined #adapt
14:00:55 <janina> janina has joined #adapt
14:01:29 <CharlesL> CharlesL has joined #adapt
14:03:13 <CharlesL> present+
14:03:16 <matatk> agenda?
14:03:20 <Github1> https://github.com/w3c/adapt/issues/203 : Unclear how the Bliss symbol examples should work with i10n/i18n.
14:03:27 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
14:03:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/10/17-adapt-minutes.html matatk
14:03:35 <matatk> zakim, take up item 1
14:03:35 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- New TAG and public explainers (Janina) -- taken up [from sharon]
14:03:48 <matatk> scribe: matatk:
14:03:49 <matatk> scribe: matatk
14:03:52 <matatk> present+
14:03:56 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
14:03:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/10/17-adapt-minutes.html matatk
14:04:08 <janina> present+
14:04:09 <janina> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/adapt/explainer.js2210a/index.html
14:04:11 <MichaelC> present+
14:04:13 <becky> becky has joined #adapt
14:04:15 <Roy> present+
14:06:51 <matatk> janina: Made sevral edits to reflect the new structure, including:
14:07:17 <matatk> ... listing the modules, and stating more may be forthcoming; adding two important paragraphs in the distraction part.
14:07:59 <CharlesL> WAI-Adapt recognizes that appropriate simplification will often be task determined. A complex page will often support multiple tasks each of which could be critical to the user requiring simplification at different times. We propose to facilitate users defining what task is critical to them in the moment rather than pre-determining what is primary or secondary in advance.
14:08:00 <matatk> ... Last para of Easily Distracted / Overwhelmed: added paragraph to reflect the discussion at TPAC regarding the variable nature of what is important to a given user.
14:08:13 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
14:08:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/10/17-adapt-minutes.html matatk
14:08:51 <matatk> janina: Do we want to remove mention of advertisements?
14:08:53 <matatk> q+
14:09:14 <CharlesL> scribe+
14:09:17 <sharon> ack matatk
14:10:15 <janina> q+
14:10:50 <CharlesL> matatk: TPAC discussion critical task for someone is very important.  Use of Symbols, we are not trying to do translations. We need only the critical items on the page to complete the task.
14:11:17 <CharlesL> …, I agree this is a significant issue, concerned about last sentence.
14:11:37 <CharlesL> …, i.e. We propose to facilitate users defining what task is critical to them in the moment rather than pre-determining what is primary or secondary in advance.
14:12:00 <CharlesL> …, can we agree on the critical case.
14:12:10 <CharlesL> …, we shouldn't decide that in the explainer.
14:12:26 <CharlesL> …, don't want to box us in for a specific way and get advice from COGA.
14:12:32 <sharon> ack janina
14:13:45 <matatk> janina: Agree we need to talk with COGA about this. Don't agree that what's absolutely critical is always clear (what do you want to do when you visit Amazon's home page?) Happy to edit this to make it clear we are investigating it.
14:13:53 <matatk> janina: Suggested re-writes?
14:14:30 <becky> present+
14:14:38 <CharlesL> matatk: I would say instead of propose what is critical to them.  We propose to investigate …
14:15:07 <CharlesL> …, this is a useful spec the research is done for decades, the experts need to be consulted with.
14:15:09 <janina> q?
14:15:12 <janina> q+
14:15:27 <CharlesL> …, I don't want to tie us to something specific.
14:15:50 <sharon> ack janina
14:16:29 <CharlesL> Janina: will add "will investigate"
14:16:51 <CharlesL> matatk: I won't hold this up and am happy with this addition
14:18:11 <matatk> janina: *Just made change to the wording.*
14:18:18 <matatk> sharon: Does the group wish to review, or merge now?
14:19:16 <matatk> becky: I've not had the chance to review yet, but happy to tweak after merging if need be (I expect big changes won't be needed).
14:19:22 <matatk> matatk: +1 to merging now
14:19:58 <matatk> sharon: Last week we talked about the placeholder "bar" being used in examples (like in addresses); I changed that to "home" - do we want to change it here too?
14:20:18 <matatk> janina: Could do. Also we may want to tweak more about advertising, but I think OK to merge now and then tweak.
14:20:39 <matatk> janina: I'm not the one to work on the examples and tweaking them.
14:20:52 <matatk> sharon: We need someone to take the next round of edits on this.
14:21:04 <matatk> becky: I can look at the examples.
14:21:30 <matatk> sharon: I think we can merge janina's work and then have becky iterate on it.
14:21:31 <matatk> CharlesL: +1
14:21:49 <matatk> zakim, next item
14:21:49 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- CR updates for new spec focused only on symbols -- taken up [from sharon]
14:22:26 <matatk> sharon's PR: https://github.com/w3c/adapt/pull/223
14:23:03 <matatk> janina: I re-wrote it (and posted to list) to laser focus on symbols.
14:23:36 <matatk> Preview URL for symbols-only stuff: https://raw.githack.com/w3c/adapt/symbols-only-content/content/index.html
14:23:49 <matatk> sharon: Do we want to merge and then take another pass?
14:23:51 <matatk> janina: +1
14:24:11 <matatk> sharon: Once these two pieces are done, is it ready for CR?
14:24:23 <matatk> janina: We'll probably need to clean up the TAG explainer to laser focus on symbols.
14:24:59 <matatk> janina: It's an action for me, but I've not started yet.
14:25:06 <matatk> sharon: Any objections to merging?
14:25:10 <matatk> *none from group*
14:25:21 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
14:25:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/10/17-adapt-minutes.html matatk
14:25:23 <matatk> zakim, next item
14:25:23 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- How do we show TAG the Next billion users. -- taken up [from sharon]
14:26:30 <matatk> janina: In the US there are 2,000,000 AAC users. That's more than screen reader users.
14:26:45 <matatk> ... THis is powerful, and would be good to find out more about it, but we don't need to tackle this immediately.
14:27:37 <matatk> ... David Fazio made the assertion that research has shown that early interventions with symbols can lead to better outcomes in adulthood. I asked him to find this research so we can cite it, and he's taken that on.
14:28:22 <matatk> sharon: Will make a note about research needed.
14:28:31 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
14:28:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/10/17-adapt-minutes.html matatk
14:28:38 <matatk> zakim, next item
14:28:38 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- WHATWG – reserve “adapt-“ prefix (Do we go to symbols CR with data- or adapt-?) -- taken up [from sharon]
14:29:59 <matatk> sharon: Where are we with this?
14:30:24 <matatk> matatk: I understand from TPAC they'd like us to request adapt- and they found it's avaiable.
14:30:37 <matatk> ... We also need to be _somewhat_ prepared with further likely attributes in the series.
14:31:51 <CharlesL> matatk: ties into issue how do we go about balance user/author.  we need an MVP of markup we talked about ARIA and CSS, ARIA is much easier. Some technical questions.  I can put on the list
14:32:22 <CharlesL> …, similarities with ARIA .. we can skip that not understood by WHAT WG
14:32:37 <CharlesL> …, we need to REL attributes worth exploring
14:33:20 <CharlesL> …, its been suggested we have not looked into microformats
14:33:40 <CharlesL> Janina: we got from Michael that its not worth microformats.
14:34:09 <MichaelC> q+
14:35:03 <CharlesL> matatk: its not really specified anywhere, all the REL attributes, we should investigate.  and could we use the auto-complee in place of our attribute if it can be used on more elements if we think thats worth doing.
14:35:37 <MichaelC> https://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2
14:36:02 <sharon> ack MichaelC
14:36:08 <matatk> MichaelC: In doing some research, I came across "Microformats 2" and it looks like they may have fixed some of the structural problems.
14:36:24 <janina> q+
14:36:33 <sharon> ack janina
14:36:37 <matatk> MichaelC: The reasons for exploring this could be different. (Not saying we should or shouldn't use it, but just wanted to clarify.)
14:36:59 <matatk> janina: Maybe matatk should make a list of all of our attributes, and other technologies that might satisfy them?
14:37:02 <matatk> matatk: Yep
14:37:29 <matatk> q+
14:37:49 <matatk> sharon: Are we looking for matatk to do this _before_ we ask for a prefix, so we have something to go to WHATWG with?
14:38:02 <matatk> janina: Yes; we want to know we need the prefix for more than just symbols.
14:38:10 <sharon> ack matatk
14:38:49 <CharlesL> matatk: harder question is continuing the conversation with CSS, media queries could solve this
14:39:27 <CharlesL> …, I feel close to an example which may show MQ might not work for all cases.  CSS puts everything in authors hands.
14:39:41 <janina> q+
14:40:29 <CharlesL> …, found the video can watch which was on MQ.  so I can articulate the question to CSS.
14:40:46 <sharon> ack janina
14:41:56 <matatk> janina: We need to get this articulated ASAP so we are able to ask WHATWG in a timely manner, by November.
14:42:00 <matatk> zakim, next item
14:42:00 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- BCI Registry Specification -- taken up [from sharon]
14:42:34 <matatk> MichaelC: *set up a call to coordinate with Bliss about setting up the registry, in the half-hour before this call*
14:42:35 <janina> q+
14:43:13 <matatk> MichaelC: We had Russell who's been our primary liaison, and Shirley, who is one of the founders of the Bliss organization. Roy has prepared a draft of the registry document. I created a PR to add the Bliss registry to it.
14:43:19 <MichaelC> https://github.com/w3c/adapt-registry/pull/1
14:43:47 <janina> https://www.w3.org/2022/10/17-aac-minutes.html
14:44:10 <matatk> MichaelC: It's a JSON file that's formatted into an HTML table by script (will be static on each snapshot). As the vocab is huge, we talked about subsetting Bliss. Looked at this with a focus on interop with other symbol libraries.
14:44:45 <matatk> ... We need to continue with this and publish something that's feasible and achievable. They're open to the idea of a subset, but we may need to seek guidance (e.g. from some in COGA) about how to subset it.
14:44:59 <matatk> ... Current version is so big that it crashes my browser.
14:45:10 <matatk> ... We'll continue working on this call.
14:45:10 <sharon> ack janina
14:45:27 <matatk> janina: The pointer to that draft is in the PR to the Explainer we just approved.
14:45:57 <matatk> ... This was mentioned in the TAG, but was deep.
14:46:24 <matatk> zakim, next item
14:46:24 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- CSS (i.e., media-queries) & Microformats (Matthew) -- taken up [from sharon]
14:46:27 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
14:46:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/10/17-adapt-minutes.html matatk
14:47:05 <matatk> matatk: Sorry; already covered this above!
14:47:49 <CharlesL> matatk: Yes I will add microformats to the wiki
14:48:03 <matatk> sharon: Will you be able to make the table for alternatives for attributes?
14:48:10 <matatk> matatk: yes
14:49:27 <matatk> sharon: Do we need the table of autocomplete values, and whether we're covering them in our spec?
14:50:10 <CharlesL> matatk: autocomplete is another item I am looking at but I don't need that table, but I will let you know.
14:50:25 <matatk> q?
14:50:32 <matatk> zakim, next item
14:50:32 <Zakim> agendum 7 -- Purpose - Can we add to the list of WCAG auto-complete attributes? -- taken up [from sharon]
14:51:07 <matatk> sharon: Covered above, in the "attribute alternatives" table.
14:51:09 <matatk> zakim, next item
14:51:09 <Zakim> agendum 7 was just opened, matatk
14:51:14 <matatk> zakim, close this item
14:51:14 <Zakim> agendum 7 closed
14:51:15 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:51:15 <Zakim> 8. Distraction - Write up use cases that don't touch advertising. [from sharon]
14:51:21 <matatk> zakim, next item
14:51:21 <Zakim> agendum 8 -- Distraction - Write up use cases that don't touch advertising. -- taken up [from sharon]
14:51:34 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
14:51:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/10/17-adapt-minutes.html matatk
14:51:49 <matatk> q+
14:52:08 <matatk> janina: I've started a list. So far just got one thing: validation of form fields. There will be more.
14:52:31 <matatk> ... If there's enough semantic data in there to colour things red, how about other ways to draw your attention to what needs fixing?
14:52:45 <matatk> ... Others should be thinking about distractions.
14:52:58 <matatk> ... I'm still wondering if distraction and simplification are the same thing.
14:53:12 <CharlesL> matatk: I don't think they are btw.
14:53:14 <sharon> ack matatk
14:53:30 <CharlesL> …, question: does content usable help us with this question about distractions.
14:54:03 <CharlesL> janina: I don't think so.
14:54:19 <CharlesL> Becky: could be done with CSS right?
14:54:26 <CharlesL> janina: yeah.
14:54:45 <matatk> sharon: We should all be looking for use cases in this area.
14:54:59 <matatk> sharon: I think most of our distractions _could_ be covered by CSS.
14:55:13 <matatk> janina: Terms of service was another one, but likely to cause legal/TAG concerns.
14:55:21 <matatk> becky: What about the cookie dialog? Could an extension handle this?
14:56:28 <CharlesL> matatk: There are standard components that use to provide these dialogs you could create a web extension to do this.
14:57:46 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
14:57:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/10/17-adapt-minutes.html matatk
15:09:45 <matatk> scribe- matatk:
15:09:46 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
15:09:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/10/17-adapt-minutes.html matatk
15:25:37 <CharlesL> CharlesL has left #adapt