12:06:21 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wot
12:06:21 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/10/05-wot-irc
12:06:35 <kaz> meeting: WoT IG/WG
12:06:36 <McCool> McCool has joined #wot
12:06:43 <mlagally_> mlagally_ has joined #wot
12:06:43 <sebastian_> sebastian_ has joined #wot
12:07:06 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Ege_Korkan, Kunihiko_Toumura, Michael_Lagally, Michael_McCool, Sebastian_Kaebisch
12:07:47 <dape> dape has joined #wot
12:08:09 <McCool> scribenick: McCool
12:11:30 <McCool> guest: Matthias Kovatsch
12:11:52 <kaz> agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Main_WoT_WebConf#5_October_2022
12:11:54 <kaz> q+
12:12:02 <McCool> topic: minutes
12:12:10 <McCool> mm: reviewed, found small things
12:12:34 <McCool> kaz: Matthias not actually a guest, is W3C member via Siemens
12:12:38 <kaz> i/Matthis/topic: Guest/
12:12:43 <mlagally_> good to see Matthias back :-)
12:12:59 <McCool> seb: Sep 28 minutes
12:13:33 <kaz> s/guest: Matthias Kovatsch/sk: Matthias Kovatsch will talk about IIWOT23/
12:13:43 <kaz> s/kaz: Matthias not actually a guest, is W3C member via Siemens//
12:14:10 <McCool> seb: conclusion was to stay with WebEx...
12:14:18 <kaz> i|topic: minutes|kaz: note that Matthias is an official WoT WG participant from Siemens :)|
12:14:49 <kaz> i|Sep 28|-> https://www.w3.org/2022/09/28-wot-minutes.html Sep-28|
12:15:49 <McCool> seb: did we resolve if we are having Arch tomorrow?
12:15:54 <McCool> ml: yes, 1h
12:16:07 <kaz> zakim, who is on the call?
12:16:07 <Zakim> Present: Kaz_Ashimura, Ege_Korkan, Kunihiko_Toumura, Michael_Lagally, Michael_McCool, Sebastian_Kaebisch
12:16:30 <kaz> present+ Matthias_Kovatsch, Ryuichi_Matsukura, Tomoaki_Mizushima
12:16:43 <kaz> present+ Daniel_Peintner
12:18:54 <McCool> seb: any objections to publishing SEp 28  minutes?
12:19:06 <McCool> ... hearing no objections, will be published
12:19:28 <kaz> q+
12:19:33 <McCool> seb: some editorial issues with TPAC minutes, still need to be fixed, let's defer to next week
12:20:05 <kaz> ack k
12:20:59 <McCool> mm: will send an email to kaz with some fixes to TPAC minutes
12:21:11 <McCool> topic: IIWOT'23 Workshop
12:21:34 <McCool> mk: let me show a summary of the workshop
12:22:21 <McCool> ... I am involved as a consultant, not the main organizer
12:22:28 <McCool> ... is second iteration of workshop
12:22:45 <McCool> ... will be co-located with CES
12:23:00 <McCool> ... directly after
12:23:09 <McCool> q+
12:23:10 <kaz> q+
12:23:19 <mlagally_> q+
12:23:51 <McCool> ... will be part of an IEEE conference
12:24:08 <cris_> cris_ has joined #wot
12:24:34 <McCool> ... not limited to work happening in standardization, but also new ideas in the area
12:24:48 <McCool> ... academia, collaboration
12:25:09 <McCool> ... schedule is soon, but expect deadline extension, prob two weeks
12:25:29 <cris_> q+
12:25:30 <sebastian_> q+
12:25:33 <sebastian_> q-
12:25:34 <sebastian_> q?
12:27:14 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
12:27:18 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:27:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/10/05-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:27:28 <McCool> mm: two issues; WG representation; remote attendance
12:28:00 <kaz> present+ Cristiano_Aguzzi
12:28:19 <sebastian_> q?
12:28:20 <Ege> q+
12:28:37 <kaz> ack mc
12:29:16 <kaz> chair: Sebastian/McCool
12:29:20 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:29:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/10/05-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:29:38 <McCool> mm: fees also seem high; is there a workshop-only registrations?
12:30:02 <McCool> mk: usually only for publication and on-site attendance; will look into it
12:30:28 <McCool> kaz: WoT is W3C's product, so should have representation as an invited talk
12:30:54 <McCool> ack k
12:31:00 <kaz> i|Matthias Kovatsch will|topic: Guests|
12:31:25 <McCool> ml: support and suggest remote presentation; each TF lead could present their specs
12:31:28 <kaz> i|note that M|scribenick: kaz|
12:31:44 <kaz> i/reviewed, found/scribenick: McCool/
12:31:50 <McCool> ... many people have problem with travel right now
12:31:53 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:31:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/10/05-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:33:33 <kaz> i|let me show a|-> https://iiwot23.nws.cs.unibo.it IIWoT23 Web page|
12:33:35 <kaz> q?
12:33:40 <mlagally_> ack m
12:33:46 <kaz> ack cris
12:33:53 <McCool> mm: probably need between 30m and 1h; 30m we just do the summary presentation
12:34:12 <McCool> cris: there is also the WoT CG, maybe a joint session
12:34:42 <McCool> q+
12:34:56 <kaz> q+
12:35:30 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:35:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/10/05-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:35:38 <McCool> mk: there is also a demo session, may be appropriate
12:35:47 <mlagally_> q+
12:35:52 <McCool> ege: agree it would be *better* if we can go there
12:36:02 <McCool> mk: demos would also be great
12:36:04 <cris_> +1
12:36:42 <McCool> ege: also some linked news, Thread group, you can see how they do things
12:37:30 <Ege> ack e
12:37:30 <kaz> ack ege
12:37:34 <kaz> ack mc
12:39:45 <cris_> q+
12:41:13 <McCool> mm: if we want to assemble bullet points, include WoT CG, etc. we will need to create a proposal and agree on it as a group
12:41:29 <McCool> ... although I can easily just forward a link to our current summary pres
12:41:47 <McCool> kaz: suggest we just go for the simple option of the WoT WG update this time
12:42:12 <kaz> ack k
12:43:06 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:43:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/10/05-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:43:26 <McCool> mm: suggest that I send off something with a request for an hour, then we can fill in some details in some sections
12:43:38 <McCool> ml: how many people?
12:43:54 <McCool> mk: expect about 20 people, plus some people from the main conference
12:43:54 <kaz> ack ml
12:43:56 <kaz> ack cr
12:44:16 <McCool> cris: for the record we should do CG and WG together, not separately
12:45:23 <sebastian_> q?
12:45:45 <kaz> (please remember the WoT-JP CG, who has been working hard and giving updates to the WoT-WG/IG, as well in that case :)
12:45:58 <kaz> q+
12:46:03 <McCool> mm: thinking of just asking for at most 1h, and squeeze in various subtopics
12:46:25 <McCool> ... including possibly even some demos
12:47:04 <kaz> ack k
12:47:14 <McCool> ... also agree on WoT-JP Cg
12:47:19 <McCool> topic: Cancellations
12:47:33 <McCool> seb: arch NOT cancelled, but otherwise testfest
12:47:49 <McCool> topic: Binding Templates
12:48:22 <McCool> seb: TD call has been mostly on TD, and this has delayed Binding Templates
12:48:38 <McCool> ... TD is now mostly ready, but Binding Templates is behind
12:48:56 <kaz> q+
12:50:13 <McCool> ... would keep TD call, but considering adding additional slot (in Editor's slot); agree with Ege would be useful
12:50:32 <McCool> kaz: mentioned on email list, not clear why we need a separate slot
12:51:04 <McCool> ... if TD is mostly done, we can explicitly assign 1h or 1.5h of TD call for Binding
12:51:24 <McCool> ... also, is a Note, we need to focus on normative specs
12:51:36 <McCool> ... don't think we need a separate call
12:51:38 <McCool> q+
12:51:42 <McCool> ack k
12:52:04 <mlagally_> q+
12:52:07 <Ege> q+
12:52:08 <McCool> ack mc
12:52:22 <Mizushima> +1 kaz
12:52:42 <McCool> ml: where we are with normative specs, putting one additional hour into Note does not seem appropriate
12:52:53 <McCool> ack ml
12:53:20 <McCool> ege: understand kaz's point of view, if can't do it, editors did agree
12:53:22 <McCool> q+
12:53:25 <McCool> ack e
12:53:50 <kaz> q+
12:55:03 <kaz> ack mc
12:55:04 <McCool> mm: wonder how much work there actually is
12:55:06 <kaz> qq+ Ege
12:55:12 <kaz> ack Ege
12:55:13 <Zakim> Ege, you wanted to react to McCool
12:55:37 <McCool> ege: main reason wanted to allocate more time is TD spec is using in examples, is a dependency
12:55:49 <mlagally_> q+
12:56:17 <McCool> ... regarding maturity, text needs work, but implementations are in good shape
12:56:31 <McCool> ... but needs introductory text; technical work is mature
12:57:26 <McCool> kaz: needs to ask implementers about whether Note for binding templates is enough
12:57:36 <McCool> ... in which case we can wrap up the group notes
12:57:55 <McCool> ... and then if it is really possible to wrap up in a month
12:58:20 <McCool> ... but please do think about schedule and implementability before holding these additional calls
12:58:42 <McCool> ... we are not thinking about overall goals, just about clearing PRs
12:59:09 <McCool> ... we need to think about wrapping up deliverables, with normative specs as a priority
12:59:35 <Ege> q+
12:59:40 <McCool> ... W3C process requires us to provide IRs etc. for normative specs
12:59:52 <McCool> ack k
12:59:52 <sebastian_> q+
13:00:09 <kaz> ack ml
13:00:28 <McCool> ml: suprised to hear about the dependency of TD on binding note
13:00:44 <McCool> ... would have thought it was more of a guideline document
13:00:59 <McCool> ... also, looked at it recently, saw a lot of to dos, etc.
13:01:21 <McCool> ... it is not enough if editors agree on something
13:01:33 <kaz> s/IRs/Implementation Reports/
13:01:37 <McCool> ... we are lacking bandwidth on other things, including testing
13:01:55 <McCool> ege: dependency is in examples, not that strong
13:02:18 <McCool> ... where we show the TD does not have to be dependent on a particular protocol
13:02:32 <McCool> ... so really about citability, not about normative dependency
13:02:36 <kaz> q?
13:02:38 <cris_> q+
13:02:39 <kaz> ack e
13:02:41 <McCool> ack e
13:02:43 <kaz> q+
13:02:57 <McCool> ml: to clarify, I think we need to focus on normative deliverables
13:03:22 <McCool> seb: suggest we stick with the current setup in the Wed mtg, but can start with binding topics
13:03:39 <McCool> mm: (time check, now in overtime)
13:04:01 <McCool> seb: when TD is in CR status, can spend more time on binding
13:04:09 <McCool> q?
13:04:12 <McCool> ack s
13:04:17 <McCool> q+
13:04:50 <McCool> seb: agree REC documents are important, but we also need to clean up our notes that are being referred to; need to be in good shape
13:05:38 <kaz> ack cr
13:05:46 <McCool> cris: second importance of protocol bindings, got a lot of feedback from developers
13:06:00 <McCool> ... in next charter will also hope to move them to REC track
13:06:22 <McCool> ... however, agree with what Sebastian said
13:06:42 <McCool> seb: need to close, summarize other topics
13:06:47 <kaz> q?
13:07:12 <kaz> q-
13:07:15 <McCool> ... be aware the testfest is going, and we need inputs for TD, Architecture (which has many gaps, please help), and Profile
13:07:36 <kaz> i/need to close/topic: AOB/
13:07:38 <McCool> ... other topics, met with OPC UA about formal collaboration, still in process
13:07:51 <kaz> q+
13:08:02 <McCool> ... but it looks quite good and much interest to proceed
13:08:04 <McCool> ack m
13:08:14 <Ege> q+
13:08:48 <McCool> kaz: regarding OPC UA liaison: two viewpoints, procedural and technical.  Talking to different people about these aspects.
13:08:49 <kaz> ack k
13:09:03 <kaz> q+
13:09:11 <McCool> ege: next week Thursday WoT CG is planning a Digital Twins event
13:09:28 <kaz> ack e
13:09:34 <McCool> ... will put in W3C Calendar later today and send invites
13:10:40 <McCool> kaz: would like to clarify if WoT CG's scope if more than outreach
13:10:42 <McCool> q+
13:10:46 <McCool> ack k
13:11:39 <mlagally_> q+
13:11:51 <McCool> ack m
13:11:58 <McCool> ack m
13:12:12 <McCool> ml: any news about DTDL?
13:12:32 <McCool> seb: Erich was also in OPC UA meeting, two weeks ago
13:12:45 <McCool> ... but has vacation this week, COVID situation in their office
13:13:35 <McCool> mm: can deal with that after CR, def as part of next charter discussion
13:13:38 <kaz> s/than outreach/than outreach. If the initial target is outreach and the other topics like WoT Marketing pages and Plugfests can be deferred, that's fine, but please clarify that plan, and explicitly declare that./
13:14:03 <kaz> [adjourned]
13:14:10 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:14:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/10/05-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:16:03 <kaz> s/if more than/is more than/
13:16:54 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:16:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/10/05-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:18:19 <kaz> s/fine, but/fine. However, /
13:18:20 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:18:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/10/05-wot-minutes.html kaz