13:44:44 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #i18n
13:44:44 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/09/29-i18n-irc
13:44:53 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #i18n
13:45:22 <addison> trackbot, prepare teleconference
13:45:25 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:45:28 <trackbot> Meeting: Internationalization Working Group Teleconference
13:45:28 <trackbot> Date: 29 September 2022
13:45:32 <agendabot> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/59c53b6b-4dcc-4d0e-9b1f-13949f19a6ac/20220929T150000
13:45:32 <agendabot> clear agenda
13:45:32 <agendabot> agenda+ Agenda Review
13:45:32 <agendabot> agenda+ Action Items
13:45:35 <agendabot> agenda+ Info Share
13:45:37 <agendabot> agenda+ RADAR Review
13:45:39 <agendabot> agenda+ Pending Issue Review
13:45:41 <addison> Chair: Addison Phillips
13:45:42 <agendabot> agenda+ Exemplary Personal Names in Specdev
13:45:44 <agendabot> agenda+ URL Referencing in Specdev
13:45:44 <addison> scribe+
13:45:46 <agendabot> agenda+ Whitespace Definitions in Specdev
13:45:49 <agendabot> agenda+ Three External Issues
13:45:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/29-i18n-minutes.html addison
13:45:52 <agendabot> agenda+ Definition about allowed file names
13:45:55 <agendabot> agenda+ AOB?
13:53:34 <addison> present+
13:57:09 <xfq> xfq has joined #i18n
14:02:06 <addison> present+ Richard, Bert, Atsushi, Fuqiao
14:02:29 <addison> scribe+ xfq
14:02:42 <JcK> JcK has joined #i18n
14:03:46 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 1
14:03:46 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Agenda Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:03:49 <addison> agenda?
14:04:32 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 2
14:04:32 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Action Items -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:04:41 <addison> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open
14:05:27 <Najib> Najib has joined #i18n
14:05:30 <JcK> present+ JcK
14:06:00 <addison> action-1173?
14:06:00 <trackbot> action-1173 -- Richard Ishida to Raise gap report on nnbsp issue in french -- due 2022-07-28 -- OPEN
14:06:00 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1173
14:06:12 <xfq> r12a: ACTION-1173, still ongoing
14:06:35 <xfq> addison: ACTION-1183, I sent another ping, hasn't worked out yet
14:08:08 <xfq> r12a: read the email about font generics
14:08:12 <xfq> ... need to think about it more
14:08:38 <xfq> addison: we spent time talking about it at TPAC
14:09:06 <xfq> ... fantasai said what seemed to me is a high bar
14:09:41 <xfq> ... provide a catalog of variations
14:10:02 <r12a> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/4910#issuecomment-619342561
14:11:29 <xfq> ... monospace may pass that test
14:11:35 <xfq> ... the other generics don't
14:11:52 <xfq> ... I think this catalog is what we were looking fore
14:12:02 <xfq> s/fore/for
14:12:39 <xfq> r12a: I think it is very important
14:12:51 <xfq> ... particularly when talking about Syriac
14:13:14 <xfq> ... is separating a heading from text alongside it a different meaning?
14:14:26 <xfq> ... Urdu people can't read nasta’liq easily
14:14:39 <xfq> addison: should this become a document?
14:14:42 <xfq> r12a: it's possible
14:14:47 <addison> action-1195?
14:14:47 <trackbot> action-1195 -- Addison Phillips to Follow up with r12a and others about gap analysis for font generics -- due 2022-09-19 -- OPEN
14:14:47 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1195
14:14:51 <addison> close action-1195
14:14:51 <trackbot> Closed action-1195.
14:15:27 <xfq> r12a: I should read what fantasai said in the minutes
14:15:29 <addison> action: addison: with r12a follow up on font generics with elika and CSS
14:15:30 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1209 - With r12a follow up on font generics with elika and css [on Addison Phillips - due 2022-10-06].
14:15:40 <xfq> addison: I'm not sure that it captures the nuances of what she said
14:15:45 <xfq> ... maybe a conversation
14:16:27 <addison> action: richard: convert csswg#4910 comment 619342561 into an article
14:16:27 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1210 - Convert csswg#4910 comment 619342561 into an article [on Richard Ishida - due 2022-10-06].
14:16:59 <addison> action-1196?
14:16:59 <trackbot> action-1196 -- Atsushi Shimono to Follow up with jlreq on csswg#6091 to see if non-cjk enclosing punctuation should be included in space-trimming -- due 2022-09-19 -- OPEN
14:16:59 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1196
14:17:11 <xfq> atsushi: in progress
14:17:29 <r12a> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-editors/
14:17:30 <addison> action-1198?
14:17:31 <trackbot> action-1198 -- Richard Ishida to Find instructions for doing reviews and add to i18n-editors page -- due 2022-09-20 -- OPEN
14:17:31 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1198
14:17:34 <addison> close action-1198
14:17:34 <trackbot> Closed action-1198.
14:17:35 <xfq> close ACTION-1198
14:17:35 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-1198.
14:17:50 <addison> action-1199?
14:17:50 <trackbot> action-1199 -- Richard Ishida to Add instructions for t: labels to the github review instructions -- due 2022-09-20 -- OPEN
14:17:50 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1199
14:17:55 <addison> close action-1199
14:17:55 <trackbot> Closed action-1199.
14:18:51 <r12a> https://r12a.github.io/scripts/arabic/homographs.html
14:19:10 <addison> action-1200?
14:19:10 <trackbot> action-1200 -- Richard Ishida to Improve ijam/tashkil definitions in glossary -- due 2022-09-20 -- OPEN
14:19:10 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1200
14:19:31 <xfq> r12a: included some ijam/tashkil information
14:19:57 <xfq> ... here are the decomposed characters, here are the precomposed characters
14:20:32 <xfq> ... searching for an alternative example to the Arabic letters
14:21:12 <xfq> ... usually the precomposed character will be ijam and the decomposed character will be tashkil
14:21:17 <xfq> ... it's in progress
14:22:06 <addison> action-1202?
14:22:06 <trackbot> action-1202 -- Richard Ishida to Publish current specdev to tr -- due 2022-09-20 -- OPEN
14:22:06 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1202
14:22:09 <addison> close action-1202
14:22:09 <trackbot> Closed action-1202.
14:22:33 <xfq> r12a: Published current specdev, clreq-gap, and jlreq-gap documents to /TR
14:22:59 <xfq> r12a: ACTION-1203, in progress
14:23:04 <addison> action-1204?
14:23:04 <trackbot> action-1204 -- Addison Phillips to Add comment to secure-payment-confirmation#205 about cr transition and i18n support -- due 2022-09-21 -- OPEN
14:23:04 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1204
14:23:07 <addison> close action-1204
14:23:07 <trackbot> Closed action-1204.
14:23:26 <addison> action-1205?
14:23:26 <trackbot> action-1205 -- Addison Phillips to Triage the linked issues in #1579 into active vs. non-active -- due 2022-09-22 -- OPEN
14:23:26 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1205
14:23:29 <addison> close action-1205
14:23:29 <trackbot> Closed action-1205.
14:24:23 <addison> action-1208?
14:24:23 <trackbot> action-1208 -- Addison Phillips to Propose text for specdev about url references -- due 2022-09-29 -- OPEN
14:24:23 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1208
14:24:27 <addison> close action-1208
14:24:27 <trackbot> Closed action-1208.
14:24:34 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 3
14:24:35 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Info Share -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:25:03 <xfq> addison: the Unicode Consortium had an event
14:25:14 <xfq> ... 187 people attended
14:25:42 <xfq> ... all of those will be posted on YouTube
14:25:46 <xfq> ... for people to watch
14:26:37 <xfq> JcK: there is discussion in IETF on what email addresses should look like
14:26:59 <xfq> ... related to HTML input type="email"
14:27:25 <xfq> addison: basically we're still in the same place
14:27:41 <xfq> ... we need to try to push them to the left hand side
14:27:59 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 4
14:27:59 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- RADAR Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:28:09 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1
14:28:27 <xfq> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1588
14:28:41 <addison> fuqiao: viss spec comment ^^
14:29:03 <addison> ... updated the spec to change 3986 -> 3987
14:29:23 <addison> ... satisfied?
14:29:23 <r12a> https://github.com/w3c/automotive/issues/457
14:32:22 <addison> agenda?
14:32:40 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 10
14:32:40 <Zakim> agendum 10 -- Definition about allowed file names -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:32:43 <xfq> Close this issue and move VISS to completed
14:32:52 <addison> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2022Sep/0002.html
14:33:15 <xfq> https://github.com/w3c/miniapp-packaging/issues/61
14:33:42 <xfq> https://www.w3.org/TR/miniapp-packaging/#file-names
14:35:31 <xfq> [xfq describes the issue]
14:36:01 <xfq> addison: we could publish a reference
14:36:13 <xfq> ... we're not chartered to work on normative documents
14:36:39 <xfq> r12a: or another group could define this, we could point to that
14:37:01 <xfq> addison: could be a UTN
14:37:18 <xfq> r12a: I worry about the idea that people would link to this section
14:37:23 <xfq> ... normative requirements
14:37:43 <xfq> addison: this section would change based on our understanding of best practices
14:38:11 <xfq> r12a: we could ask Unicode folks
14:38:22 <addison> action: addison: ping unicode about file naming UTN/UTR possibility
14:38:22 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1211 - Ping unicode about file naming utn/utr possibility [on Addison Phillips - due 2022-10-06].
14:38:38 <addison> agenda?
14:39:12 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 6
14:39:12 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- Exemplary Personal Names in Specdev -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:39:32 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/pull/74
14:39:58 <addison> https://deploy-preview-74--bp-i18n-specdev.netlify.app/#personal_name_examples
14:40:11 <xfq> r12a: need to publish to /TR
14:40:35 <xfq> addison: I've taken various input
14:40:40 <xfq> ... made the table sortable
14:40:53 <Najib> Najib has joined #i18n
14:41:02 <xfq> ... plenty of Japanese examples
14:41:09 <xfq> ... hardly any Chinese examples
14:41:19 <xfq> ... some of the other language tagging is kind of questionable
14:41:27 <xfq> ... more female than male
14:41:51 <xfq> ... is this close enough to merge?
14:42:27 <xfq> r12a: rename 'Notes' to 'Region'
14:43:45 <xfq> https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/pull/74#issuecomment-1185158481
14:43:49 <xfq> https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/pull/74#discussion_r921799288
14:44:23 <xfq> https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/pull/74#discussion_r980905607
14:44:26 <xfq> https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/pull/74#issuecomment-1259152997
14:45:18 <xfq> r12a: 'Icelandic' should be 'Europe; Icelandic'
14:46:58 <xfq> xfq: the table can only be sorted in ascending order, not in descending order.
14:47:28 <xfq> ... if I want to see 'zh-Hans', being able to sort it in descending order would be useful
14:48:11 <xfq> r12a: we could have two Fátima rows
14:48:23 <xfq> ... one for West Asia, one for Europe
14:48:49 <xfq> ... Livia lives in Europe and Latin America
14:49:06 <xfq> ... Sofia lives in Europe and Latin America
14:49:24 <xfq> addison: more work to do
14:50:13 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 7
14:50:13 <Zakim> agendum 7 -- URL Referencing in Specdev -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:50:23 <xfq> ... should we merge it?
14:50:30 <r12a> agenda?
14:50:31 <xfq> r12a: works for me, these are all editorial stuff
14:50:45 <addison> https://deploy-preview-80--bp-i18n-specdev.netlify.app/#sec_resid_non_ascii
14:50:57 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/pull/80
14:51:16 <xfq> addison: I drew an action item to make a PR on URLs
14:51:38 <xfq> ... specdev still links to a copy of an I-D of IRI
14:51:55 <xfq> ... maybe 'resource identifier' should be in the glossary instead
14:52:07 <xfq> ... I patched up the first part of the mustard
14:52:24 <xfq> ... basically previously said you need to allow non ascii chars in your urls
14:52:37 <xfq> ... the bottom mustard is the same, i'm not 100% happy with it
14:52:42 <xfq> ... I'm looking for feedback
14:52:50 <xfq> ... it's super unsatisfying
14:53:00 <xfq> ... and it does not solve the problem
14:53:15 <xfq> ... I also added a link to the WHATWG URL
14:53:56 <xfq> r12a: we should say 'don't use RFC 3986, use RFC 3987, because blah blah blah'
14:54:34 <xfq> JcK: least bad in a terrible situation
14:55:08 <xfq> ... rough edges in RFC 3987
14:56:39 <xfq> addison: I think we hoped URL solved the problem
14:57:07 <xfq> ... browser vendors are the most visible implementers
14:58:08 <r12a> s/Livia lives in Europe and Latin America/Livia lives in Europe, Latin America
14:58:23 <r12a> s/Sofia lives in Europe and Latin America/Sofia lives in Europe; Latin America
14:58:53 <xfq> addison: URL is good, but it's kind of a subset
14:59:05 <xfq> ... and our problem is to know what to point to
15:00:22 <xfq> addison: I should try to add some text under the second mustard
15:00:35 <xfq> ... add IRI reference to it to make it clear
15:01:57 <xfq> r12a: I think the second mustard is from charmod fundamental, isn't it?
15:02:09 <xfq> addison: it was just here
15:02:19 <xfq> ... I'll look it up
15:02:48 <addison> https://www.w3.org/TR/charmod-resid/
15:02:54 <xfq> ... as a reminder, there is a portion of charmod, which we retired
15:05:04 <xfq> ... looking at charmod fundamentals, there's no mention of IRIs
15:05:47 <xfq> ... should I add links to charmod-resid?
15:05:58 <xfq> r12a: but it has been retired
15:06:12 <xfq> ... we want to add things to specdev
15:07:38 <xfq> addison: let me go back and do some work
15:08:00 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 11
15:08:00 <Zakim> agendum 11 -- AOB? -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:08:42 <xfq> rrsagent, make minutes
15:08:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/29-i18n-minutes.html xfq
15:09:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/29-i18n-minutes.html addison