14:04:39 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wot-td
14:04:39 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/09/28-wot-td-irc
14:04:52 <kaz> meeting: WoT-WG - TD-TF
14:05:34 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Daniel_Peintner, Ege_Korkan, Sebastian_Kaebisch
14:08:38 <cris_> cris_ has joined #wot-td
14:10:02 <dape> scribe: dape
14:10:08 <sebastian> sebastian has joined #wot-td
14:10:31 <dape> TOPIC: Review draft minutes
14:10:48 <dape> -> https://www.w3.org/2022/08/17-wot-td-minutes.html
14:13:18 <Ege> scribenickL dape
14:13:21 <Ege> scribenick: dape
14:13:36 <Ege> rrsagent, make log public
14:14:01 <kaz> s/html/html Aug-17
14:14:13 <kaz> s/scribenickL dape//
14:14:41 <dape> s/scribenickL dape///
14:14:57 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Sebastian_Kaebisch, Cristiano_Aguzzi, Daniel_Peintner, Ege_Korkan, Tomoaki_Mizushima
14:15:02 <dape> <Sebastian walks ove the minutes>
14:15:20 <dape> s/<Sebastian walks ove the minutes>/<Sebastian walks over the minutes>
14:15:40 <dape> SK: Minutes look good, any objection?
14:15:47 <dape> -> none -> minutes approved
14:16:02 <dape> TOPIC: group decision to proceed to CR transition with TD 1.1
14:16:08 <dape> -> https://www.w3.org/2022/09/21-wot-minutes.html#r01
14:16:28 <dape> SK: working on it
14:16:35 <dape> TOPIC: Next week TestFest is planned
14:16:42 <dape> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-testing/tree/main/events/2022.09.Online
14:16:51 <dape> SK: Shall we have a TD meeting next week?
14:17:00 <dape> ... every day there is TestFest
14:17:14 <dape> ... no conflict with TD call
14:17:35 <cris_> q+
14:17:52 <Ege> +1 to having the meeting
14:17:56 <dape> ... personally prefer having a meeting
14:18:00 <kaz> q+
14:18:26 <dape> CA: Agree to have a call, lots od things to discuss
14:18:37 <dape> s/od things/of things
14:18:48 <dape> Kaz: I would like to cancel
14:19:12 <dape> ... 3 weeks continuous meetings
14:19:43 <kaz> ack c
14:19:43 <dape> ack cris_
14:19:44 <kaz> ack k
14:19:47 <dape> ack kaz
14:20:18 <dape> SK: Okay, suggest to cancel meeting but we should keep working on PRs and issues
14:21:02 <dape> SK: Different(new?) slot for bindings discussions
14:21:18 <dape> ... 1 hour is not enough at the moment
14:21:46 <dape> ... maybe use "editors" slot... besides the TD slot?
14:21:55 <dape> Ege: +1
14:21:58 <dape> CA: +1
14:22:20 <dape> Ege: will send email to Jan and Klaus to confirm availability
14:22:45 <kaz> q+
14:23:19 <dape> Kaz: change slot regularly?
14:23:29 <dape> SK: No, keep 1 hour in TD call slot
14:23:44 <dape> ... an additional slot in editors call timeframe
14:24:04 <dape> Kaz: keeping 2 hour TD call
14:24:11 <dape> SK: Yes
14:24:32 <dape> Kaz: Maybe we should have an official announcement
14:24:52 <dape> SK: Suggest to use email send by Ege ...
14:25:02 <dape> ... people should have blocker in calendar
14:25:20 <dape> Kaz: Email suggestion is fine
14:25:31 <dape> ... we should make a resolution during main call
14:25:39 <dape> SK: Sure
14:26:03 <kaz> s/TD call/TD call and another 1 hour call for Binding?/
14:26:19 <kaz> s/main call/the main call/
14:26:22 <dape> TOPIC: Binding Topics
14:26:49 <dape> Ege: would like to take a look at some PRs
14:26:51 <Ege> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/173
14:27:10 <dape> SUBTOPIC: Husky Tutoria
14:27:15 <dape> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/173
14:27:30 <dape> Ege: adds small line... fixes issue
14:27:35 <kaz> s/Tutoria/Tutorial/
14:27:45 <dape> ... make clear what to do
14:27:54 <dape> ... suggest to merge ...
14:28:15 <dape> SUBTOPIC: Adding WoT to titles
14:28:21 <dape> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/171
14:28:46 <dape> Ege: individual bindings are not aligned
14:28:58 <dape> ... this PR fixes it.. adding also WoT
14:29:28 <kaz> i/Adding/merged/
14:29:52 <Ege> q?
14:29:57 <dape> SK: +1
14:31:16 <dape> ... PR merged
14:31:44 <dape> Kaz: sub-documents could be subsections
14:32:01 <dape> Ege: big discussion.. please open issue
14:32:42 <dape> Kaz: WebAccessibility guidelines has similar structure.. but we can think about which would be better
14:32:51 <dape> SUBTOPIC: Fixing GitHub URLs
14:32:57 <dape> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/172
14:33:04 <kaz> s/sub-documents could be subsections/from my viewpoint, the sub-documents could be subsections of the WoT Binding Templates spec so that we don't need to care about the titles of those sub-documents./
14:33:47 <dape> Ege: Problem was that people got 404
14:34:01 <dape> ... should always have the root repo in the links
14:34:25 <dape> ... PR fixes issues in all the cases
14:34:38 <dape> ... merged
14:34:40 <kaz> s/WebAccessibility guidelines/WCAG (Web Content Accessibility Guidelines)/
14:34:57 <kaz> i|Fixing Git|-> https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/ WCAG 2.1 REC|
14:35:26 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
14:35:31 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:35:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/28-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:36:03 <dape> SUBTOPIC: Links to ontology in MQTT
14:36:09 <dape> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/177
14:36:45 <dape> Ege: links showing errors.. not pointing to ontology document correctly
14:37:00 <dape> ... PR adds full URL link
14:37:08 <kaz> q+
14:37:20 <dape> ... when publishing we need to be aware of these links
14:37:37 <cris_> q+
14:38:11 <dape> Kaz: we can host ontology ... but we need to see the need of hosting on W3C side
14:38:33 <dape> ... could be hosted somewhere else as well... need discussion
14:38:44 <dape> Ege: Would delay our work
14:39:36 <dape> ... in the future we should really work together with other SDOs
14:39:45 <kaz> zakim, who is on the call?
14:39:45 <Zakim> Present: Kaz_Ashimura, Daniel_Peintner, Ege_Korkan, Sebastian_Kaebisch, Cristiano_Aguzzi, Tomoaki_Mizushima
14:39:48 <dape> ... for now github seems fine also
14:40:28 <dape> Kaz: I organized break-out session for SDO collaboration
14:40:47 <dape> ... various SDOs have started ontology discussions already
14:41:12 <dape> ... need for standardized ontology is accepted
14:42:15 <dape> ... ideal situation: collaboration w.r.t. ontology based on linked data
14:42:30 <sebastian> q+
14:42:31 <dape> Ege: Agree
14:42:33 <kaz> present+ Jan_Romann
14:42:56 <kaz> ack k
14:44:02 <dape> ... will open issue to track this problem
14:44:23 <dape> CA: Agree with the discussion
14:44:49 <dape> ... prefer to keep ontology on Github for now.. otherwise tools get broken
14:45:15 <dape> .. suggest to propose *our* ontology
14:45:16 <kaz> q+
14:45:30 <dape> ... can ask other SDOs for feedback
14:46:15 <kaz> s/prefer to keep/prefer keeping/
14:46:39 <dape> ... w.r.t. the PR... we can improve the process in the future tweaking the renderer
14:47:18 <Ege> q?
14:47:20 <Ege> ack c
14:47:22 <dape> ack cris_
14:47:44 <dape> SK: General comment: we have same situation with OPC-UA
14:47:55 <dape> ... expect OPCUA to setup ontology
14:48:19 <dape> ... we would like to work on this kind of collaboration
14:48:23 <dape> ack sebastian
14:48:52 <dape> ... similarly for ECHONET et cetera
14:49:22 <dape> Kaz: technically key question: who defines what
14:49:37 <dape> ... need for data catalogue
14:49:45 <dape> ... with all related SDOs
14:49:56 <dape> ack kaz
14:50:33 <dape> Ege: <merging PR>
14:50:45 <kaz> s/who defines what, which definition to be referred to for what purpose/
14:50:47 <dape> SUBTOPIC: HTTP Field Value
14:50:53 <dape> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/180
14:51:05 <dape> Ege: issue created by Luca Barbato
14:51:11 <kaz> s/catalogue/catalog to identify where to start the search/
14:51:29 <dape> ... http fieldValue should be optional
14:52:00 <kaz> s/with all related SDOs/should have collaborative discussion with all the related SDOs including OPC UA, IEC, ISO, ITU-T, etc./
14:52:47 <dape> Ege: PR can be merged later (related PR 181 needs to be merged first)
14:53:02 <dape> SUBTOPIC: MQTT Examples
14:53:16 <dape> ->  https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/181
14:54:33 <dape> Ege: fixes examples, commas etc
14:55:27 <dape> ... no objections -> merging
14:57:16 <cris_> q+
14:57:24 <dape> SUBTOPIC: MQTT topic and topicfilter
14:57:25 <dape> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/179
14:57:35 <dape> Ege: still needs work from my side
14:57:41 <dape> q?
14:58:27 <dape> <Ege leaving>
14:58:43 <dape> TOPIC: TD Topics
14:58:45 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:58:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/28-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:58:56 <dape> SK: couple of PRs
15:00:05 <dape> SUBTOPIC: minor typos
15:00:10 <dape> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1679
15:00:18 <dape> SK: small typo fixes
15:00:40 <dape> ... looks good
15:01:02 <dape> SK: merging
15:01:59 <dape> SUBTOPIC: Fix shacl, context and ontology
15:02:03 <dape> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1684
15:02:13 <kaz> q+
15:02:18 <dape> SK: Suggest to postpone
15:02:41 <dape> ... asked Etienne to check the PR
15:03:02 <dape> ... let's wait for her feedback
15:03:26 <dape> CA: fine by me
15:03:35 <kaz> ack c
15:03:38 <cris_> ack c
15:03:44 <dape> ... btw, found other issues while working on it
15:04:11 <kaz> ack k
15:04:12 <dape> Kaz: we should talk about update policy
15:04:51 <dape> SK: PR has no impact on document itself
15:05:22 <dape> Kaz: should editorial label
15:05:30 <dape> SK: Yes, thanks
15:05:52 <dape> SUBTOPIC: Remove custom RFC 9200 bibliography entry
15:05:58 <dape> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1688
15:06:02 <kaz> s/we should talk about update policy/editorial fixes are fine, but technically we've already fixed the spec, so we should talk about update policy before diving into the new PRs./
15:06:18 <dape> SK: official RFC now
15:06:33 <dape> Jan: content is the same
15:06:39 <dape> SK: looks good
15:06:55 <dape> ... merging
15:07:32 <dape> SUBTOPIC: Aug 2022 impl report update
15:07:36 <dape> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1689
15:07:54 <dape> SK: I am okay to merge.. no direct impact on TD ... just an update of the report
15:08:23 <dape> ... merging
15:08:44 <dape> SUBTOPIC: editoral fixes/changes
15:08:48 <dape> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1693
15:09:02 <dape> SK: integrated review comments
15:09:49 <kaz> q?
15:09:51 <dape> CA: +1
15:10:03 <dape> SK: merging
15:10:32 <dape> SUBTOPIC: replace remaining tm:required
15:10:40 <dape> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1694
15:10:57 <dape> SK: missed to update some old required statements
15:11:54 <dape> ... one note is not very clear .. not related to PR
15:12:06 <dape> ... editors note need to be removed anyway in the process
15:12:30 <dape> ... suggest to clarify in a later point in time
15:12:51 <dape> <resolving PR conflicts>
15:13:38 <dape> SK: no objections -> merging
15:13:58 <dape> SUBTOPIC: update TD Context Extensions CoAP example
15:14:02 <dape> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1695
15:14:26 <dape> SK: text in section was not clear.. pointing to the "future"
15:14:41 <dape> ... PR updates this para and points to editors draft
15:15:12 <dape> ... the namespace in use does not exist yet
15:15:22 <dape> ... need to publish binding on W3C domain
15:15:36 <dape> ... wondering how we organize binding references/links
15:15:42 <dape> q?
15:16:02 <kaz> q+
15:16:02 <dape> SK: Kaz, do you have a proposal about the namespace structure ?
15:16:43 <dape> ... see https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1695#discussion_r981308591
15:17:17 <dape> Kaz: I personally think ... or I am not really sure whether W3C should host it
15:17:31 <dape> ... suggest to talk with PLH
15:17:56 <dape> ... purpose of reference is getting the ontology
15:18:21 <dape> ... as tentative solution we can host on Github
15:18:33 <dape> ... suggest with other SDOs
15:18:59 <dape> SK: namespace from Github becomes very long
15:19:27 <dape> Kaz: length of URL should not matter much
15:21:10 <dape> SK: Okay, I suggest to talk with Ralph also
15:21:36 <dape> Kaz: initial discussion with PLH
15:22:56 <dape> SK: noted him in PR
15:23:10 <dape> Kaz: will start discussion thread with you both
15:24:08 <kaz> s/both/and McCool/
15:24:49 <dape> SUBTOPIC: update def. semantic tag
15:24:53 <dape> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1696
15:25:21 <dape> SK: got review that we should be clearer what semantic tag means
15:25:39 <dape> ... Ben proposed this change
15:25:48 <dape> ... took over his proposal
15:26:40 <dape> CA: +1
15:26:56 <dape> DP: +1
15:27:19 <dape> <SK resolving merge conflict>
15:27:49 <dape> SK: no objections -> merging
15:28:28 <dape> SUBTOPIC: add changes section for Fourth Public Working Draft
15:28:37 <dape> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1697
15:29:00 <dape> SK: PR adds new changes section
15:30:17 <dape> ... changes look good
15:30:30 <cris_> +1
15:30:46 <dape> SK: no objections -> merging
15:31:06 <dape> SUBTOPIC: align formatting for examples
15:31:09 <dape> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1698
15:31:15 <dape> q+
15:33:11 <cris_> q+
15:33:18 <dape> DP: Style is more verbose using jsonlint
15:34:04 <kaz> ack k
15:34:08 <kaz> ack d
15:35:09 <dape> CA: I think it is fine
15:35:19 <dape> ... not that many big examples
15:35:39 <dape> ... we could use json linter (used by node-wot)
15:36:04 <dape> DP: Would be good
15:36:16 <dape> ... tooling might be tricky
15:37:01 <dape> SK: JSON-LD does not seem very consistent either
15:38:13 <dape> ... side-comments: snippets not always show highlichting
15:38:43 <dape> s/highlichting/highlighting
15:39:59 <kaz> q+
15:40:04 <kaz> ack c
15:40:05 <dape> DP: broken JSON does not render nicely
15:41:03 <dape> Kaz: save the static HTML ... should not care about ReSpec bug
15:41:19 <dape> ... if static HTML is fine
15:43:12 <dape> ack kaz
15:45:17 <dape> SK: prefer to have the less verbose version
15:46:29 <dape> ... could have the *compact* version for the main examples
15:46:38 <dape> q+
15:48:05 <dape> ack dape
15:48:21 <dape> DP: Not sure if fixing some examples make sense
15:48:31 <dape> ... will try to find a better solution
15:48:32 <kaz> q+
15:49:36 <dape> TOPIC: Update policy
15:49:54 <sebastian> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description#readme
15:50:08 <dape> > Please notice that Thing Description 1.1 is in the review phase for the Candidate Recommendation (CR) transition. In this and subsequent phase, only editorial changes (e.g., adding examples, additional explanations) and bug fixes can be applied to the editorial draft. New feature requests can not be considered and will be postponed to the next version of the Thing Description.
15:50:58 <dape> Kaz: Based on this policy we should identify "editorial" label PRs
15:51:11 <kaz> s|https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description#readme|[https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/blob/main/README.md
15:51:45 <dape> SK: All PRs do not affect spec..
15:52:08 <dape> .. can add an additional note that PRs need "editorial" label
15:52:14 <kaz> s|[https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/blob/main/README.md|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/blob/main/README.md README.md of the wot-thing-description repository which includes the update policy|
15:52:38 <dape> Kaz: Thanks!
15:53:03 <dape> [adjourned]
15:53:32 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:53:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/28-wot-td-minutes.html kaz