19:50:09 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dxwg
19:50:09 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/09/27-dxwg-irc
19:50:19 <pwinstanley> rrsagent, make logs public
19:50:34 <pwinstanley> chair: pwinstanley
19:50:50 <pwinstanley> regrets+ CBurle
19:51:57 <pwinstanley> meeting: DCAT Plenary
19:52:01 <pwinstanley> agenda: https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2022.09.27
19:52:23 <pwinstanley> present+
19:52:36 <pwinstanley>  rrsagent, create minutes v2
19:52:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/27-dxwg-minutes.html pwinstanley
20:00:53 <antoine> antoine has joined #dxwg
20:02:18 <riccardoAlbertoni> riccardoAlbertoni has joined #dxwg
20:02:18 <antoine> present+ antoine
20:02:36 <Nobu_Ogura> Nobu_Ogura has joined #dxwg
20:03:33 <riccardoAlbertoni> present+
20:04:30 <annette_g> annette_g has joined #dxwg
20:04:38 <pchampin> pchampin has joined #dxwg
20:04:41 <antoine> scribenick: antoine
20:04:42 <annette_g> present+
20:04:51 <antoine> rrsagent, please draft minutes
20:04:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/27-dxwg-minutes.html antoine
20:04:51 <Nobu_Ogura> present+
20:04:57 <antoine> rrsagent, please draft minutes v2
20:04:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/27-dxwg-minutes.html antoine
20:05:02 <pchampin> present+
20:06:05 <antoine> https://www.w3.org/2022/07/12-dxwg-minutes
20:06:27 <antoine> Proposed: to accept minutes https://www.w3.org/2022/07/12-dxwg-minutes
20:06:30 <riccardoAlbertoni> +1
20:06:34 <annette_g> +1
20:06:35 <Nobu_Ogura> +1
20:06:41 <antoine> rrsagent, please draft minutes v2
20:06:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/27-dxwg-minutes.html antoine
20:06:59 <pwinstanley> -0 not there
20:07:02 <pchampin> +1
20:07:06 <antoine> +0
20:07:18 <antoine> Resolved: minutes accepted https://www.w3.org/2022/09/27-dxwg-minutes.html
20:07:49 <antoine> Topic: DCAT update
20:08:24 <antoine> s/Topic: DCAT update//
20:08:30 <antoine> Topic: TPAC update
20:09:07 <antoine> Pierre-Antoine: my impressions. This group didn't have a meeting but the "data activity" was well represented
20:09:24 <antoine> ... I gave a lightening talk in the AC meeting around what's new
20:09:38 <antoine> ... Two new WGs: RDF Datasets and RDF*
20:09:57 <antoine> ... Quite some discussion around JSON-LD: the WG is becoming active again
20:10:06 <antoine> ... Some discussion on YAML-LD
20:10:30 <antoine> ... Simple and yet more expressive than JSON. Makes some things easier
20:11:32 <antoine> s/RDF*/RDF-star
20:11:43 <antoine> rrsagent, please draft minutes v2
20:11:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/27-dxwg-minutes.html antoine
20:12:16 <antoine> pwinstanley: anybody else from our WG attended?
20:12:51 <antoine> annette_g: I did. I enjoyed the sustainability. Not direclty relevant for this group but interesting in general
20:13:00 <antoine> ... what's the impact of using web technology
20:13:49 <antoine> ... There was good stuff in the dev meetup. Queries/containers.
20:14:42 <antoine> pwinstanley: what sort of scale is "green-computing" computing?
20:14:55 <antoine> annette_g: not a lot of quantification yet.
20:15:03 <annette_g> https://almanac.httparchive.org/en/2022/sustainability
20:15:12 <antoine> ... some pointers were sent on W3C slack
20:15:54 <antoine> pwinstanley: negotiation could be related to minimizing consumption
20:15:59 <antoine> q+
20:16:16 <pwinstanley> ack antoine
20:17:09 <antoine> ... if one does a lot of work with data there could be different versions.
20:17:22 <antoine> ... a very wild expansion of the notion of profiles
20:17:35 <antoine> ... sthg could have a lower energy utilization.
20:18:04 <antoine> ... This could be considered next to other concerns like ETL processing.
20:19:23 <antoine> ... We need to be thinking of all the things we do add up.
20:19:56 <antoine> pwinstanley: is there sthg that hints that our WG should have contributed more?
20:20:18 <riccardoAlbertoni> +q
20:20:24 <pwinstanley> ack riccardoAlbertoni
20:20:43 <annette_g> q+
20:20:57 <antoine> riccardoAlbertoni: to me it was lack of energy. Other things had to be prioritized
20:21:41 <antoine> Pierre-Antoine: it's hard to say
20:22:19 <antoine> ... DCAT is in good shape
20:22:39 <antoine> ... profile negotiation still feels rather early
20:22:48 <antoine> ... but it's going to take more space in the future
20:23:04 <antoine> ... I hope we can do something around RDF-star
20:23:32 <antoine> ... for example "I'd like Turtle but without the fancy RDF-star thing"
20:23:52 <antoine> ... We want to avoid being disruptive and creating a new content/media type for RDF
20:24:13 <antoine> ... We're in between things. So no lost opportunity but some more discussions
20:24:44 <antoine> pwinstanley: cooperation with European Union people?
20:25:10 <antoine> Pierre-Antoine: some have vocabularies published eg. on w3.org.
20:25:25 <antoine> ... maybe we'll have to find a home for this new work.
20:25:46 <antoine> pwinstanley: a revitalization of the Gov WG?
20:25:52 <annette_g> q-
20:26:24 <antoine> q+
20:27:24 <antoine> annette_g: should we focused on DCAT and profile?
20:27:42 <antoine> pwinstanley: I feel stronger about CAT than D :-)
20:27:49 <pchampin> q+
20:27:54 <antoine> annette_g: I feel the other way round :-)
20:28:01 <pwinstanley> ack antoine
20:28:05 <pchampin> scribe+
20:28:18 <antoine> pwinstanley: FAIR
20:28:52 <antoine> antoine: which vocabularies?
20:29:01 <antoine> Pierre-Antoine: Core vocabularies for persons, orgs...
20:29:24 <antoine> ... There are other people working on vocabularies. Core assessment methodologies.
20:30:10 <antoine> ... three groups of people have contacted me about similar things
20:30:25 <pchampin> scribe-
20:30:27 <antoine> q+
20:30:56 <antoine> pwinstanley: Nobu would there be some appetite from Japanese govt?
20:31:03 <antoine> Nobu_Ogura: I would say yes
20:31:39 <antoine> pwinstanley: W3C would give a neutral place for such work
20:31:53 <antoine> ... the "optics" would be easier
20:32:12 <antoine> ... there were also suggestions from US govt
20:32:30 <pwinstanley> ack antoine
20:35:28 <riccardoAlbertoni> +q
20:35:32 <antoine> Antoine: I saw sthg about evaluation methodologies on the EU portal for datasets
20:35:37 <pwinstanley> ack pchampin
20:35:41 <pchampin> https://www.dagstuhl.de/en/program/calendar/evhp/?semnr=21383
20:35:46 <antoine> ... they may have idneed desires to standardize evaluation aspects
20:36:15 <antoine> ... but this would lead us into the "profile" work that may we were reluctant about several years ago.
20:36:22 <riccardoAlbertoni> q-
20:36:42 <antoine> Antoine: have there been discussions about "datasheets for datasets" ? This could be relevant for DCAT
20:36:49 <antoine> pchampin: no
20:37:12 <antoine> Pierre-Antoine: there was a meeting (25) organized by DDI and XX
20:37:37 <antoine> ... Some people use DCAT. Some Schema.org and DCAT perceived as too complicated
20:37:41 <pwinstanley> s/XX/CODATA/
20:38:11 <antoine> Pierre-Antoine: we talked about FAIR a lot.
20:38:22 <antoine> ... It's hard to turn the letters into technical measures
20:38:43 <antoine> ... Maybe this was the most obvious "missed opportunity"
20:39:00 <antoine> pwinstanley: there's a week of activities in Leiden at the end of October
20:39:55 <antoine> ... I'll probably be there for some part
20:40:15 <antoine> ... The FAIR convergence symposium is one of the meetings.
20:40:20 <antoine> ... I'll send the link
20:40:20 <pwinstanley> https://codata.org/2nd-fair-convergence-symposium-24-26-october-2022-in-leiden-the-netherlands/
20:40:45 <pwinstanley> q?
20:41:04 <antoine> Topic: DCAT
20:41:17 <antoine> riccardoAlbertoni: two meetings after the summer
20:41:31 <antoine> ... How to reply about the feedback got from TAG and Privacy group
20:41:38 <riccardoAlbertoni> https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/1530
20:41:47 <pwinstanley> https://codata.org/save-the-dates-hotzone-week-on-fair-at-the-2022-leiden-european-city-of-science-24-28-october/
20:42:14 <riccardoAlbertoni> https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/blob/gh-pages/docs/explainer.md.
20:42:33 <antoine> riccardoAlbertoni: a first part of the answer is to add things to the explainer
20:43:06 <antoine> ... adding to the main features of DCAT 3 and the history.
20:43:35 <antoine> ... this part does not seem most critical. We suppose it will satisfy their curiosity
20:44:00 <antoine> ... The second element is why we've not used RDF lists for series
20:44:18 <antoine> ... dcat:first etc sounds like it is related to rdf:first etc
20:44:27 <riccardoAlbertoni> https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/1530#issuecomment-1255206996
20:44:27 <antoine> ... but they do have different semantics
20:45:12 <antoine> ... We explained that RDF lists based on LISP-style lists are not the best way to describe our datasets series
20:45:24 <antoine> ... Pierre-Antoine, Dave and XX alreayd say they agree
20:45:36 <antoine> ... Further feedback may be desired
20:46:08 <antoine> q+
20:46:13 <antoine> ... Any feedback?
20:46:40 <antoine> PW
20:46:58 <antoine> pwinstanley: I need to get back to the full presentation of DCAT v3
20:47:12 <antoine> ... we need better tutorials of how people are working with it
20:47:33 <antoine> riccardoAlbertoni: my doubt is how to reply to such feedback
20:47:49 <antoine> ... what I've sent so far is clearly my position.
20:48:21 <antoine> Pierre-Antoine: no clear advice. The answer was satisfying to me.
20:48:31 <antoine> riccardoAlbertoni: when should the issue be closed?
20:48:51 <antoine> Pierre-Antoine: I've not been in enough horizontal reviews. I would simply ask the question.
20:49:29 <antoine> riccardoAlbertoni: ok
20:49:55 <antoine> pwinstanley: sometimes things look too abstract, too distant to the domain
20:50:26 <antoine> riccardoAlbertoni: I've tried to map the current datasets series to RDF lists, but it was hard
20:51:10 <antoine> ... I don't think people consuming dataset series function in LISP-list ways
20:51:32 <antoine> ... Maybe it was genuine curiosity
20:51:34 <antoine> q+
20:52:03 <antoine> riccardoAlbertoni: let's see if they reply next week
20:52:38 <antoine> Pierre-Antoine: I think it was to check that the group chose this option knowlingly.
20:53:17 <antoine> pwinstanley: there was the PAV stuff brought in as well, for versioning
20:53:37 <antoine> riccardoAlbertoni: one of our efforts was not to reivent the wheel
20:54:16 <antoine> pwinstanley: there were reasons
20:54:42 <antoine> riccardoAlbertoni: a long discussion about this re-use/import of PAV
20:54:56 <antoine> ... we mixed PAV with DCTerms
20:55:25 <antoine> pwinstanley: I don't remember discussions around core RDF constructs.
20:55:42 <antoine> riccardoAlbertoni: lists became more important than in the past.
20:55:57 <antoine> ... many people tried to stay away from them
20:56:03 <antoine> s/them/RDF lists
20:56:22 <antoine> ... there was a paper about RDF lists, saying that they were not so well supported.
20:57:49 <antoine> .. The other thing was feedback from the privacy group
20:58:04 <pwinstanley> ack antoine
20:59:51 <riccardoAlbertoni> Discussion of the feedback from the privacy group https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/created_by/npdoty
21:00:00 <annette_g> q+ to mention web share API mention of DCAT -- typo?
21:00:01 <antoine> Antoine: cheap advice: ask them if they can live with your answer. People are never fully satisfied
21:00:07 <antoine> ... :-)
21:00:27 <antoine> Also on RDF lists, if they have more questions maybe we could check what happened with Activity Streams.
21:00:48 <antoine> ... AS have come with their own "first" etc to handle pagination
21:00:56 <antoine> ... https://www.w3.org/TR/activitystreams-vocabulary/#dfn-first
21:00:59 <pwinstanley> ack annette_g
21:00:59 <Zakim> annette_g, you wanted to mention web share API mention of DCAT -- typo?
21:01:07 <annette_g> https://www.w3.org/TR/2022/CR-web-share-20220830/
21:01:23 <antoine> riccardoAlbertoni: it seems that the Privacy feedback is not centered on DCAT
21:01:32 <antoine> ... Please have a look at it
21:01:45 <antoine> annette_g: the Web Share rec mentions DCAT
21:02:07 <antoine> riccardoAlbertoni: I was not able to figure out what's happening
21:02:15 <antoine> RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2
21:02:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/27-dxwg-minutes.html antoine
21:03:24 <antoine> annette_g: it seems nobody knows?
21:03:37 <antoine> annette_g: it's there
21:03:45 <antoine> RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2
21:03:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/27-dxwg-minutes.html antoine
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