11:57:12 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wot
11:57:12 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/09/22-wot-irc
11:57:23 <kaz> meeting: WoT Post-TPAC Meeting - Day 3
12:01:41 <ryuichi> ryuichi has joined #wot
12:03:20 <McCool> McCool has joined #wot
12:03:34 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_McCool, Kunihiko_Toumura
12:03:38 <ktoumura> ktoumura has joined #wot
12:05:24 <kaz> agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/F2F_meeting,_September_2022#Thursday.2C_September_22
12:06:02 <dape> dape has joined #wot
12:06:46 <kaz> present+ Sebastian_Kaebisch, Ege_Korkan, Tomoaki_Mizushima
12:06:56 <kaz> present+ Daniel_Peintner
12:06:57 <Mizushima> Mizushima has joined #wot
12:07:47 <sebastian> sebastian has joined #wot
12:08:45 <kaz> zakim, who is on the call?
12:08:45 <Zakim> Present: Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_McCool, Kunihiko_Toumura, Sebastian_Kaebisch, Ege_Korkan, Tomoaki_Mizushima, Daniel_Peintner
12:09:44 <kaz> topic: Opening
12:09:56 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/main/PRESENTATIONS/2022-09-hybrid-f2f/2022-09-22-WoT-F2F-Opening-McCool.pdf McCool's slides
12:10:08 <kaz> mm: (gives latest updates on Architecture)
12:10:52 <kaz> CR on Oct 12/13; PR on Dec 14/15 earliest
12:10:58 <kaz> scribenick: sebastian
12:11:09 <kaz> i/gives/scribenick: kaz/
12:11:15 <sebastian> topic: CG/Marketing Split
12:11:35 <sebastian> MM: how we make progress on the split?
12:11:57 <kaz> q+
12:11:59 <sebastian> Ege: we will have a meeting on Monday and let you know about the outcome
12:14:21 <sebastian> MM: CG is mainly designed to be short term. The main goal should be to build a community.
12:15:50 <sebastian> MM: there is the concerns about publications topics such as RECs etc. CG, however, is not to intended to do so
12:17:49 <kaz> q?
12:18:01 <sebastian> Ege: the W3C structure such as /WoT/wg/ and /WoT/ig/ is already there for a long time
12:18:57 <dape> q+ Studio24
12:19:07 <dape> q- Studio24
12:19:15 <dape> q+ to Studio24
12:19:52 <kaz> https://www.w3.org/2022/Talks/0907-deliverables-ka/
12:21:25 <Ege> https://www.w3.org/groups/ig/wot this is the automatic page
12:22:52 <sebastian> Kaz: We should reconsidere the relationship between the official w3c managed / system pages (auto-generated) and our manuell creted content
12:23:09 <sebastian> s/creted/created
12:23:18 <kaz> s/reconsidere/reconsider/
12:23:25 <kaz> q?
12:23:31 <kaz> ack k
12:23:32 <kaz> ack d
12:23:32 <Zakim> dape, you wanted to Studio24
12:23:37 <dape> q+
12:23:42 <kaz> q?
12:23:44 <kaz> q+
12:24:23 <sebastian> Daniel: it would be great if we could extract the content of the official pages
12:25:00 <sebastian> MM shows https://www.w3.org/groups/wg/wot
12:26:07 <McCool> q?
12:26:09 <sebastian> Daniel: when we started to work on the new web page, the W3C started to redisign the webpages by Studio24
12:26:11 <McCool> ack d
12:26:17 <sebastian> ... Im wondering about the status
12:27:38 <sebastian> Kaz: the current proposal of the redisgn is not appropriate
12:28:40 <dape> s/redisgn/redesign
12:29:05 <sebastian> Kaz: we should rethink how we can refer to the official auto-generated again.
12:29:11 <McCool> q?
12:29:13 <McCool> q+
12:29:26 <sebastian> ... each group should have own page
12:30:41 <dape> q+
12:31:24 <dape> ack dape
12:31:52 <sebastian> Daniel: I see Kaz points, however, for people from the outside do not understand this different groups
12:32:12 <sebastian> Ege: I think also people inside have problems to understand
12:32:21 <sebastian> MM: I agree
12:33:36 <sebastian> Kaz: W3C has an official approach how to represent the groups
12:33:37 <sebastian> q+
12:34:03 <kaz> zakim, who is on the call?
12:34:03 <Zakim> Present: Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_McCool, Kunihiko_Toumura, Sebastian_Kaebisch, Ege_Korkan, Tomoaki_Mizushima, Daniel_Peintner
12:34:08 <Ege> q+
12:34:17 <kaz> present+ Cristiano_Aguzzi
12:34:54 <sebastian> ack k
12:36:37 <sebastian> Kaz: I'm not objecting our manuel created webpage. Just want that we consider the relation to the auto-generated content again.
12:38:05 <sebastian> Cris: lets assume the WG stop working, what would be happen with the manuel pages?
12:38:23 <dape> q?
12:38:30 <McCool> ack m
12:39:06 <cris_> cris_ has joined #wot
12:39:09 <dape> s/manuel/manual
12:39:13 <kaz> s/objecting/objecting to/
12:39:24 <kaz> s/manual/manually/
12:39:37 <kaz> q+
12:39:42 <kaz> ack s
12:41:19 <kaz> s/created webpage/created WoT landing page, or I'm not saying the page is useless./
12:41:49 <kaz> s/Just want that we/Just want to say that we should/
12:42:03 <kaz> s/relation to/relationship to/
12:42:04 <McCool> ack s
12:42:45 <kaz> ack e
12:43:38 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/publishing/ Publishing@W3C page
12:44:43 <sebastian> Ege: I think our webpage is a publishing activity webpage since we cover IG and WG
12:48:28 <sebastian> I will be back in 10min
12:48:39 <kaz> i/I will/kaz: @@@
12:48:56 <Ege> mm: what should we do next?
12:49:21 <Ege> kaz: I want to make sure that everybody understand what this means
12:50:17 <Ege> mm: what are the next issues?
12:51:08 <Ege> ek: what are the implications?
12:51:23 <Ege> kaz: it is in the old process document, it is deleted 3 years ago
12:52:11 <Ege> ek: can we use our own word?
12:52:15 <Ege> kaz: no
12:54:01 <Ege> kaz: it would imply going back to the old process document
12:54:12 <Ege> mm: why was it removed?
12:55:21 <Ege> kaz: activity was used to group related groups, old process used to include more stages for going to rec
12:56:17 <Ege> mm: it would be a disadvantage to go back to the old process
12:56:42 <Ege> kaz: maybe we can use activity without going back to the old process. We should have a resolution first and go to W3M
12:56:45 <kaz> s/@@@/As I've been repeatedly mentioning, if we really want to use the term of "Activity" to treat all the WoT-related groups as a chunk, we need to make a whole group resolution, and talk with the W3M/
12:57:21 <McCool> https://github.com/w3c/wot/issues/1042
12:57:38 <Ege> mm: let's continue the agenda
12:57:39 <kaz> s/use activity/use the term of "Activity"/
12:58:03 <kaz> s/We should have/However, we should have/
12:59:10 <Ege> mm: kaz can you post further explanation in the issue
12:59:23 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
12:59:32 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:59:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/22-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:59:53 <Ege> q+
12:59:58 <Ege> ack k
13:00:03 <kaz> ack k
13:00:15 <kaz> chair: McCool/Sebastian
13:00:22 <dape> q+
13:00:31 <kaz> i/As I've/scribenick: kaz/
13:00:41 <kaz> i/what should we/scribenick: Ege/
13:01:08 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:01:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/22-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:01:15 <Ege> ack e
13:01:16 <Ege> ack d
13:01:20 <dape> https://www.w3.org/2022/07/wot-wg-2022.html#other-deliverables
13:01:28 <Ege> dp: I have been looking in the old charter
13:01:33 <kaz> s/lets/let's/
13:01:35 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:01:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/22-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:02:04 <Ege> ... and scripting was just another deliverable
13:02:56 <kaz> s/I want to make sure that everybody understand what this means/Before continuing this discussion, I want to make sure everybody understands what is defined the latest W3C Process and what used to be defined by the old W3C Process documents./
13:03:02 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:03:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/22-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:03:19 <Ege> dp: the consensus was to stick to the current way
13:03:34 <Ege> mm: is scripting ig or wg?
13:03:37 <Ege> ek: wg
13:03:39 <sebastian> I'm back, I can take the minutes again
13:03:51 <dape> ack dape
13:04:15 <kaz> s/it is in the old process document, it is deleted 3 years ago/"Activity" was defined in the old W3C Process Document but deleted several years ago./
13:04:37 <Ege> mm: I will go in order
13:04:41 <kaz> s/can we use our own word?/can we use "Activity" as our own word?/
13:05:23 <kaz> s/it would imply going back to the old process document/It would imply we (WoT WG) would like to run the group based on the old Process document./
13:06:07 <sebastian> MM shows the Security Deliverable Proposal PR
13:06:25 <sebastian> https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/1031
13:06:51 <Ege> subtopic: security deliverable proposal
13:07:20 <sebastian> q?
13:07:22 <sebastian> q+
13:07:31 <sebastian> MM: new topic is onboarding
13:07:31 <kaz> s/can we use "Activity" as our own word?/can we use our own word?/
13:07:41 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:07:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/22-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:08:24 <sebastian> ... this should consider security aspects
13:08:27 <Ege> mm: I have attended the rdf signing
13:08:52 <sebastian> MM: another is about Signing
13:08:57 <Ege> q+
13:09:04 <sebastian> s/another/another topic
13:09:14 <kaz> i|other deliverables|topic: Finalize Deliverable Priorities for next charter|
13:09:24 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:09:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/22-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:09:35 <sebastian> ... approach should be consistent with RDF/JSON-LD
13:10:56 <sebastian> Matthias Kovatsch mention that we should have a look on IETF JSON Web Proofs
13:11:14 <kaz> i|#other-deliverables|topic: Finalize Deliverable Priorities for next charter|
13:11:17 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:11:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/22-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:11:33 <sebastian> s/mention/mentioned
13:12:01 <kaz> i|I have been|subtopic: Scripting API|
13:12:06 <sebastian> MM: agree, we should also consider IETF activites
13:12:23 <kaz> s/subtopic: security deliverable proposal//
13:12:26 <sebastian> MM: another topics is about secruity scheme ontology
13:12:46 <kaz> i|MM shows the Security Deliverable Proposal PR|subtopic: Security|
13:12:48 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:12:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/22-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:12:58 <sebastian> ... security schemes changes over time
13:12:59 <sebastian> q+
13:13:17 <Ege> ack s
13:13:38 <kaz> i/MM shows/scribenick: sebastian/
13:13:41 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:13:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/22-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:13:50 <kaz> q+
13:14:20 <sebastian> ... it would be better to have seperated dpcuements to adopt changes faster
13:14:23 <kaz> ack e
13:14:33 <kaz> q-
13:14:50 <sebastian> this topic is also relevant for OPC UA security
13:14:58 <kaz> s/mm: I have attended the rdf signing//
13:15:01 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:15:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/22-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:15:12 <kaz> q+
13:15:45 <kaz> s/Matthias/sk: Matthias/
13:16:18 <kaz> s/what is defined the/what is defined by the/
13:16:35 <McCool> q?
13:16:43 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:16:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/22-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:18:48 <sebastian> Ege: would it possible to have abstract schemes that can be applied to multiple protocols. Eg, basic scheme
13:20:55 <kaz> kaz: @@@
13:21:34 <sebastian> Kaz: I'm agree with MM proposal. We should be careful about the content, we should check it with existing work at the W3C
13:21:54 <kaz> s/@@@//
13:22:06 <sebastian> subtopic: Thing Description 2.0
13:22:27 <sebastian> https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/1033
13:23:03 <sebastian> MM: there are some feedback about actions from Ben
13:23:53 <sebastian> ... I miss the WebThink protocols for the payload driven protocols
13:24:07 <kaz> s/I'm agree with MM proposal. We should be careful about the content, we should check it with existing work at the W3C/I basically agree with McCool's proposals. We should be consistent with the VCWG's work. Also should use standardized vocabularies to define the WoT Security features. On the other hand, we should be careful about how to use the content within the Security deliverables, because part of that should be transferred to the other WoT
13:24:07 <kaz> deliverables like TD later./
13:24:22 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:24:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/22-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:24:55 <kaz> s/this topic is also/sk: this topic is also/
13:24:59 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:24:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/22-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:25:25 <kaz> s|deliverables like TD later./||
13:25:54 <kaz> s/to the other WoT/to the other WoT deliverables like TD later./
13:25:56 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:25:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/22-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:26:25 <sebastian> MM: we have TM for TD directory. How about TM for Thing Shadows?
13:26:36 <kaz> s/kaz: //
13:26:37 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:26:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/22-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:26:49 <sebastian> .. is this a topic for TD?
13:27:29 <kaz> s/WebThink/WebThing/
13:28:11 <kaz> q+
13:28:51 <sebastian> q+
13:29:05 <kaz> q- later
13:30:44 <Ege> q+
13:31:38 <McCool> q+
13:31:41 <cris_> cris_ has joined #wot
13:31:51 <cris_> q+
13:32:20 <sebastian> ack
13:32:26 <kaz> ack s
13:32:43 <dezell> dezell has joined #wot
13:32:48 <dezell> present+
13:32:55 <dezell> present+ David_Ezell
13:33:03 <sebastian> sk: we should also consider to have a "Consumer Description". TD mainly address Producer, but we have nothing for consumer.
13:33:16 <McCool> ack m
13:33:40 <sebastian> Kaz: we should comment on github
13:34:50 <McCool> q+
13:34:53 <McCool> ack k
13:36:04 <McCool> ack e
13:36:22 <kaz> s/we should comment on github/we should create another topic and issue for the need for a potential "Consumer Description", and I'd like to go back to the discussion on the time-series data./
13:36:34 <kaz> q+
13:37:40 <kaz> kaz: @@@
13:37:41 <sebastian> Ege: about consumer description, there is a use case coming from profile about the web hooks discussion
13:38:06 <sebastian> q+
13:39:35 <kaz> s/@@@/regarding the time-series data, I think we should think about video stream data as well. During TPAC 2022, I attended the MEIG meeting as well and there was discussion on handling video stream data using Web Transport, etc., and surveillance video output was also included there./
13:39:48 <sebastian> Cris: I'm interested in video streams. I have some examples and contribute here (I have a node-wot implementation that I can share)
13:39:55 <kaz> ack c
13:40:07 <kaz> q-
13:41:23 <sebastian> ... I have some concern about the consumer description. It is hard to clearify who need a consumer desctipion
13:42:22 <kaz> q+
13:45:11 <kaz> ack mc
13:45:31 <kaz> ack s
13:45:50 <sebastian> <there are some discussion about the consumer description; recorded in the PR>
13:46:40 <cris_> q?
13:47:55 <cris_> q+
13:48:01 <sebastian> q+
13:48:03 <kaz> ack k
13:48:07 <McCool> ack k
13:48:17 <kaz> kaz: agree to gather ideas (brainstorming) today
13:48:33 <kaz> ... and we need to look into what those ideas would mean next
13:48:46 <kaz> ... also as a general comment @@
13:49:02 <Ege> Ege has joined #wot
13:49:33 <kaz> s/@@/we should revisit the inputs from the other SDOs, e.g., ECHONET, like history management and grouping of actions./
13:49:38 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:49:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/22-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:49:41 <Ege> q+
13:49:46 <cris_> ack cris
13:50:33 <kaz> i/agree to/scribenick: kaz/
13:50:58 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:50:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/22-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:52:01 <sebastian> topics around TD should be discussed in the next TD call.
13:52:04 <kaz> i/regarding the time/scribenick: kaz/
13:52:14 <kaz> i/about consu/scribenick: sebastian/
13:52:16 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:52:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/22-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:52:36 <sebastian> subtopic: Profiles
13:52:40 <kaz> q+
13:52:53 <sebastian> https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/1034
13:53:11 <kaz> s/topics around/Ege: topics around/
13:53:23 <sebastian> MM: we should discuss this in the next main call. is this ok?
13:53:39 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:53:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/22-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:54:25 <McCool> q+
13:54:42 <kaz> i/topics around/scribenick: sebastian/
13:54:43 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:54:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/22-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:56:14 <kaz> q?
13:56:16 <kaz> ack s
13:56:17 <McCool> ack s
13:56:19 <McCool> ack e
13:56:19 <kaz> ack e
13:56:25 <sebastian> sk: new profiles should be designed together with other SDOs
13:57:22 <kaz> kaz: we should clarify what is expected for a Profile or Profiles a bit more
13:57:22 <sebastian> subtopic: Binding Templates
13:57:28 <kaz> s/we/also we/
13:57:37 <kaz> i/we should/scribenick: kaz/
13:57:43 <kaz> scribenick: sebastian
13:57:46 <kaz> ack k
13:58:03 <sebastian> https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/1035
13:58:21 <sebastian> <Ege presents the current content of the PR>
13:59:20 <cris_> q+
13:59:31 <kaz> q+
13:59:42 <cris_> ack c
13:59:55 <sebastian> topic: Planning
14:00:06 <sebastian> MM: we have a TestFest next week
14:00:26 <sebastian> ... I will send a mail about organiziation
14:00:38 <kaz> ack m
14:00:40 <kaz> ack k
14:01:17 <Ege> mm: let's stick with webex, I have problems with zoom
14:01:41 <kaz> i|let's|scribenick: Ege|
14:01:44 <kaz> q+
14:01:56 <Ege> ... we need implementations for the architecture
14:02:33 <kaz> ack k
14:03:40 <kaz> kaz: we need to get well-prepared, so need to let people know about what they need to do :)
14:03:57 <Ege> mm: that is all, let's review minutes in anothecall
14:04:13 <kaz> s/anothcall/another call/
14:04:19 <kaz> [adjourned]
14:04:24 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:04:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/22-wot-minutes.html kaz