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14:15:40 <dom> Meeting: WebViews - Usages & Challenges  - TPAC 2022 breakout
14:15:42 <dom> Chair: Rayan_Kanso, An_Qing
14:15:46 <dom> Agenda:  https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/93376b45-77db-4261-8183-bc4721ae10b2#agenda
14:15:48 <dom> RRSAgent, make log public
14:15:50 <dom> RRSAgent, this meeting spans midnight
14:19:22 <dom> RRSAgent, stay
14:19:24 <dom> Zakim, stay
14:19:24 <Zakim> I don't understand 'stay', dom
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16:13:37 <dom> agenda+ breakout
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23:31:56 <gpellegrino> present+
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23:32:48 <dom> present+ Rayan, PeterConn, Dom, Brady
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23:33:14 <dom> Rayan: we'll discuss the WebView CG, give an overview of the webview ecosystem and give a perspective on usage and challenges of WebViews
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23:33:41 <Andy_Luhrs> Is the Zoom call working? I'm seeing "The host has another meeting in progress"
23:33:42 <brwalder_> I'm having trouble joining the Zoom meeting
23:33:50 <dom> ... the WebView CG was launched a few months ago to identify usages of WebView across platform, identify issues that emerge from it, and how they could be addressed, while raising awareness
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23:35:22 <cmp> Thanks for fixing the Zoom call
23:35:27 <Andy_Luhrs> Yep, I'm in
23:36:23 <dom> Present+ DavidHall, PatrickMeenan, AndyLhurs
23:36:59 <dom> Present+ Tove
23:37:14 <dom> Rayan: different people will have different definitions of a WebView
23:37:28 <QingAn> Present+
23:37:36 <cmp> Present+
23:37:39 <brwalder_> present+
23:37:49 <dom> Peter: will share perspective on webviews ecosystem across platforms
23:38:05 <dom> ... Android has Android WebView, iOs has WKWebView, and Windows has WebView2
23:38:19 <dom> ... android webview allows to display web content in a native apps
23:38:30 <dom> .. doesn't come with chrome or navigation controls
23:38:39 <dom> ... 80% of android app use a WebView of some sort
23:39:06 <dom> ... a WebView doesn't have an address bar, fancy browser feature (e.G. autofill), or doesn't have all web platform features
23:39:34 <dom> ... in some cases these features don't fit well in a native context (e.g. the push api)
23:39:47 <Joe_M> Can the presentation link be put in the chat? It's a bit hard to see from the back.
23:39:56 <dom> ... they're not isolated browser context - the embedding app can see and modifty everything
23:40:10 <dom> ... they're not a comprehensive toolfit to build browsers
23:40:48 <dom> ... Using WebView Beta you can highlight WebView usage with a yellow background - helps identify their usage in many native apps
23:41:21 <dom> ... Custom Tabs are different, they launched the page in a browser, with only limited interaction between the app and Web content
23:42:16 <dom> ... The Custom Tab provides a middle point between launching a complete separate browser (which can create a distracting UX) and using a WebView to render any Web content (given the limitations of WebView in terms of features support and security)
23:42:36 <dom> ... What isn't a custom tab?
23:42:48 <dom> ... it isn't a single implementation - it's based on the user's browser
23:42:55 <dom> ... it dpoesn't allow tight integration with native
23:43:07 <dom> ... may be a bit confusing for users on whether they're in the app or the browser
23:43:37 <dom> ... Android WebViews and Custom Tabs are at the extremities of a spectrum of Web/Native integration
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23:43:59 <dom> @@@: is a custom tab always fullscreen or can it appear along the native app?
23:44:17 <dom> Peter: we're looking into allowing experimentally for half-screen
23:44:39 <dom> @@@: not losing the context of the native app can be a motivation for using WebView
23:44:54 <dom> Peter: on iOS there is WKWebView very similar to android webview
23:45:36 <rbyers> s/@@@/khushalsagar/
23:45:59 <dom> ... WKWebView have app-bound-domains sinec Sep 2020, that allows to set a webview for a tight integration for up to 10 domains
23:46:17 <dom> ... right now, an opt-in, without technical control on what web sites you claim integration with
23:46:51 <dom> ... There is also SFSafariViewController, which is similar to Custom Tab
23:47:07 <dom> ... recommended to load content you don't load
23:47:30 <dom> ... for Web views on Windows, there is WebView2 similar to android and iOS webviews
23:47:45 <dom> Topic: WebView Status USage and Challenges
23:47:55 <dom> Rayan: reviewing some of the outcomes of the community group
23:48:12 <dom> -> https://webview-cg.github.io/usage-and-challenges/ WebView: Usage Scenarios and Challenges
23:48:28 <dom> Rayan: we're meeting on Friday if you want to join our dsicussions
23:48:57 <dom> ... Among our finding is a classification of webviews into 2 categories, "fully-fledged" vs "browser-like", along to what Peter described
23:49:26 <dom> ... the latter usuallly have a simpler use case - content you don't own, so we focused on the former
23:49:34 <dom> ... (suggestions on better names are welcome)
23:49:49 <dom> ... 1st use case is around hybrid apps
23:50:07 <dom> ... either Web apps packaed as native apps
23:50:14 <dom> ... and in-app browsers
23:50:38 <dom> @@@: why using packaged apps vs a PWA?
23:50:45 <rbyers> s/@@@/khushalsagar/
23:50:47 <dom> Rayan: usually to get more control
23:51:01 <dom> Rayan: Another use case is browsers - like the DuckDuckGo browser
23:51:08 <dom> ... for an opiniated browser
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23:51:37 <dom> ... Another use case is also mini apps and super apps - for which there is a dedicated CG
23:51:47 <dom> ... many more: advertising, epub readers
23:51:55 <dom> Topic: WebView Challenges
23:52:01 <dom> Rayan: many identified challenges
23:52:26 <dom> ... one theme is performance: when using a webview, it creates latency for launching
23:52:41 <dom> ... you may also want to pre-cache content to accelerate loading
23:53:04 <dom> ... solutions could come either from the Web platform (through e.g. servier worker) or from the native side
23:53:18 <dom> ... Integration of native components also falls in that category
23:53:29 <dom> ... Another theme is inconsistencies
23:53:40 <dom> ... WebViews don't have uniform support of Web platform features
23:53:59 <dom> ... locally hosted content get handled differently across Web views (e.g. in terms of origins)
23:54:15 <dom> ... JS injection, network interception, degguability tend not to be consistent either
23:54:30 <dom> ... Last theme is around control: toggling features, permissions, 3rd party resources
23:54:46 <dom> ... This tends to be controversial given security & privacy concerns that can arise from them
23:54:58 <dom> ... Please join the WebView CG
23:55:13 <dom> q?
23:55:23 <masaki> Could you share the slide URL?
23:55:34 <rbyers> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lqUnum9Pbd8wGPjlPZ_Lqbb_HTsMcEeR/view?usp=sharing
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23:55:41 <masaki> Thanks!
23:56:14 <dom> Reilly: in Chromium, we have an HTML tag implementation that we are in the process to write an explainer for
23:57:03 <dom> ... the Web embedding itself would be a useful exercise to identify potential usages and issues
23:57:10 <dom> Rayan: definitely useful to consider
23:57:45 <dom> BenS: you mentioned app-bound domains - any plans to do something similar in Chrome?
23:57:59 <dom> Rayan: we're looking into it
00:01:08 <dom> dom: intersections between native policies and limiting security exposure will be part of the next phase of the CG
00:01:18 <dom> Rayan: definitely expect to see work in that space emerging
00:01:39 <dom> Brady: is there participation from other vendors?
00:01:51 <PEConn> Slides with the links working this time: https://drive.google.com/file/d/19-3Q54IZEKpjb_dXgNSeT_xyjSSnVute/view?usp=sharing
00:01:52 <dom> Rayan: we have participation from Microsoft so far
00:02:26 <dom> Jason: I'll see if we can get Mozilla involved
00:03:16 <dom> khushalsagar: what about weblayers?
00:03:33 <dom> rayan: weblayers is experimental, provides a full-fledged web view
00:03:49 <dom> ... it adds better support for more web platform features
00:04:19 <dom> ... it doesn't come with any particular restriction
00:04:37 <dom> RRSAgent, draft minutes
00:04:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/14-webview-cg-minutes.html dom
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22:03:54 <dom> RRSAgent, bye
22:03:54 <RRSAgent> I see no action items