13:54:32 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #coga
13:54:32 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/09/13-coga-irc
13:54:34 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:54:37 <trackbot> Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
13:54:37 <trackbot> Date: 13 September 2022
13:54:49 <lisa> agenda+  Meeting with Adapt. Getting to know you
13:54:58 <lisa> clear agenda
13:55:12 <lisa> agenda+  Meeting with Adapt. Getting to know you introductions
13:55:32 <lisa> agenda+  What Adapt are working on
13:55:48 <lisa> agenda+  How we can help Apat and communication
14:00:06 <lisa> agenda+ Overview of what we are doing with content useable update. See  https://www.w3.org/TR/coga-usable/ and  our timelines at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JXa94s2lbzJ0v9FHasxxws3CsOcljHHBdlQ2VOxYqAQ/edit#heading=h.ykqwx9vsxdya
14:01:28 <lisa> agenda+ Update from research sub group
14:01:44 <lisa> agenda+ Structure subgroup update
14:01:53 <shawn> shawn has joined #coga
14:02:07 <lisa> agenda+ Brainstorm ideas for content useable and other things we could be doing
14:03:17 <lisa> agenda+ testing subgroup update. Should we emphasize this until silver is ready?
14:03:50 <lisa> agenda+ next steps
14:11:33 <lisa> agenda+ Mental health update proposed changes to paterns, and issue paers. See https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bHMw35rSEuThUMa3h2naTXRRJzzAvBYNhdtkUBx7bZ0/edit
14:12:41 <lisa> agenda+ next steps form mental health review and analisis. is it time for an editors draft? were to put changes (shawns database?)
14:19:53 <mbgower> mbgower has joined #coga
14:21:12 <mbgower> mbgower has joined #coga
14:21:32 <kirkwood> kirkwood has joined #COGA
14:21:43 <mbgower> mbgower has joined #coga
14:48:25 <ShawnT> ShawnT has joined #coga
14:50:19 <Lisa_> Lisa_ has joined #coga
14:50:37 <Lisa_> q?
14:50:42 <Lisa_> ack next
14:50:46 <Lisa_> ack next
14:50:47 <Zakim> shadi, you wanted to respond to JohnRochford
14:50:49 <Lisa_> ageda?
14:50:53 <Lisa_> agenda?
14:54:15 <ShawnT> ShawnT has joined #coga
14:59:59 <Jennie> Jennie has joined #coga
15:02:39 <PaulG> PaulG has joined #coga
15:03:24 <Rain> Rain has joined #coga
15:03:28 <Rain> present+
15:03:30 <scott_h> scott_h has joined #coga
15:03:30 <Lisa_> scribe+ matt, lisa
15:04:23 <matatk> matatk has joined #coga
15:04:34 <Lisa_> scribe+ matatk, lisa
15:04:35 <julierawe> julierawe has joined #coga
15:04:51 <Fazio> Fazio has joined #coga
15:05:25 <Lisa_> next item
15:05:43 <julierawe> present+
15:06:11 <polx> polx has joined #coga
15:06:14 <Lisa_> adapt want to indroduce
15:06:25 <Lisa_> lional and sharon are facilitators
15:06:34 <Lisa_> adapt was personlization
15:06:46 <Lisa_> came from coga
15:07:15 <Lisa_> mat is apa chair with yanina
15:07:24 <Lisa_> and active in adapt
15:07:44 <Fazio> present+
15:07:50 <matatk> present+
15:08:11 <kirkwood> present+
15:08:43 <Jennie> present+
15:09:34 <Lisa_> agenda?
15:09:35 <PaulG> present+
15:10:42 <Judy> Judy has joined #coga
15:10:49 <Lisa_> adapt: we do not cover all the needs but some of them
15:10:54 <JudyB> present+
15:11:02 <Lisa_> first module is content
15:11:20 <matatk> scribe+ matatk
15:11:51 <matatk> Lisa_: COGA's mandate is to improve web accessibility for people with cognitive and learning disabilities, which is a huge range of people. We are also increasing this to cover people with mental health disabilities.
15:12:20 <matatk> ... We did some reaserch to identify the barriers people face in this space, then specific topics such as personalization, logging in, help, etc..
15:13:09 <Irfan_Ali> Irfan_Ali has joined #coga
15:13:10 <matatk> ... We tend to move towards functional impairments (memory problems; orientation) rather than disabiltiy labels, though those labels can sometimes help as a starting point for discussion with people.
15:13:17 <Irfan_Ali> present+
15:14:03 <matatk> ... We built on that with a roadmap and gap analysis, on how we can solve or potentially solve those issues. We have a techniques document that contains things people can do to solve these issues, e.g. designers.
15:14:31 <matatk> ... We proposed a lot of them to AG to be put into WCAG but didn't get thorugh the consensus hurdles; some got in, but most didn't.
15:14:56 <matatk> ... We put all of our guidance into our documet 'Content Usable' to make it easy to find the advice.
15:15:16 <mbgower> mbgower has joined #coga
15:15:28 <matatk> ... We have two main activities: (1) supporting other groups in supporting people with cognitive and learning disabilities (e.g. EO, APA, ...)
15:15:34 <janina> janina has joined #coga
15:15:55 <janina> zakim, who's here?
15:15:55 <Zakim> Present: Jennie, rashmi, Rain, Lisa, julierawe, aaronchu, Roy, ShawnT, Fazio, Maya, David, Klaus, EA, Becca_Monteleone, Michal_Lahav, Le, kirkwood, MichaelC, Rachael, Kiki,
15:15:57 <matatk> ... There isn't a lot of natural/intrinsic experience (in general) with other groups, so we see this as an important help.
15:15:59 <Zakim> ... present, Irfan_Ali, JohnRochford, ShawnLawtonHenry, matatk, PaulG, JudyB
15:15:59 <Zakim> On IRC I see janina, mbgower, Irfan_Ali, JudyB, polx, Fazio, julierawe, matatk, scott_h, Rain, PaulG, Jennie, Lisa_, kirkwood, shawn, RRSAgent, stevelee, Mike5Matrix, Github, Roy,
15:15:59 <Zakim> ... aaronchu, jcraig, Rachael, alastairc, Zakim, trackbot
15:16:02 <janina> present+
15:16:07 <Roy> present+
15:16:17 <matatk> ... Our main activity is (2) update our reserach and increase the scope to include mental health (we're doing a lit review at the moment).
15:16:47 <matatk> ... Mental health affects cognitive funciton (if you're anxious, you can't focus on something else), so we found a lot of overalap with our advice.
15:16:58 <matatk> ... We think Adapt could be in the solution space for these sorts of barriers.
15:18:10 <matatk> ... We got tons of comments. Some people liked, or disliked, the structure; others wanted more testable guidance. There has also since been a lot of new research, much of which has backed up our advice. We need to put this into an updated version.
15:18:27 <matatk> ... Working on a second verison of Content Usable as our main activity.
15:18:50 <matatk> We try to have a mix of different people with and without cognitive disabilities.
15:19:42 <matatk> Communication brings many barriers to us; we're working on ways to communicate with other groups. Michael gave us a tag on GitHub to help us keep track of issues.
15:20:02 <matatk> s/Communications brings/Lisa: Communications brings/
15:20:19 <matatk> Lisa_: We prefer to work via Google docs, and comments in there, as that's easier to track.
15:21:06 <matatk> Lionel: I'm here to meet COGA.
15:21:20 <matatk> Lisa_: *Proposes 20-second introductions from the team*
15:21:37 <matatk> *The COGA team gives introductions*
15:22:12 <ShawnT> ShawnT has joined #coga
15:27:15 <matatk> Lisa_: We'd like to pin a conversation on pronounciation if we have time at the end, or to follow up on.
15:27:55 <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel_Wolberger has joined #coga
15:28:00 <Lionel_Wolberger> present+
15:29:27 <matatk> subtopic: Adapt
15:30:16 <matatk> Lionel_Wolberger: Would like to explain about Content Module 1.0 and also what's coming next.
15:30:20 <matatk> ... Will share screen in Zoom.
15:30:42 <matatk> Lionel_Wolberger: *Shares screen*
15:31:15 <matatk> Lionel_Wolberger: https://www.w3.org/TR/adapt-content/
15:31:59 <matatk> Lionel_Wolberger: This is all about supporting people with cognitive and learning disabilities. It was born out of COGA's and Lisa's work in this area.
15:32:36 <matatk> Lionel_Wolberger: In some of what I am showing, our previous name - Personalization - will appear on screen. Please note that we are now called Adapt.
15:33:44 <mbgower> mbgower has joined #coga
15:33:51 <matatk> Lionel_Wolberger: *Shows parts of the Personalization video*
15:34:05 <Lionel_Wolberger> https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/video-examples
15:35:01 <matatk> Lionel_Wolberger: The example shows the wikihow article on 'how to make a good cup of tea'.
15:35:18 <matatk> Lionel_Wolberger: *Shows the page as it would look when adapted by software and with content based on the Adapt spec*
15:35:47 <matatk> Lionel_Wolberger: The Adapt spec allows the user's own chosen set of symbols to be used - the set they know.
15:36:03 <matatk> Lionel_Wolberger: *The page is also simplified visually, as well as having symbols added*
15:36:31 <matatk> Lionel_Wolberger: We have mark-up that allows the author to provide symobls for key parts of the content. They do this by indicating the relevant concepts.
15:37:13 <matatk> Lionel_Wolberger: This will not cover _all_ the content, but key parts, such as procedures and critical infomration. We understand that many AAC users would probably go to watch a video on how to make a cup of tea, if they wanted to learn.
15:37:36 <Jennie> * I used to, but am not active now
15:37:43 <matatk> Lionel_Wolberger: Any comments? Anyone who uses AAC, or works with AAC users?
15:38:07 <Jennie> q+
15:38:45 <matatk> Fazio: We found that when children with Down Syndrome used TTS that had a familiar voice (e.g. a parent) this was recived much better.
15:39:11 <Lisa_> Q+
15:39:12 <matatk> Rain: A big challenge is how proprietary all the symbol sets are.
15:39:27 <matatk> ... Even the database or token names that the sets use has no realiable consistency.
15:39:40 <matatk> ... E.g. Soccer ball may have a different name in different sets,
15:40:16 <matatk> Fazio: Educators are creating overlays for iPads etc. that have the tablet speak specific things when the buttons are pressed.
15:41:21 <matatk> janina: The innovation, Lisa_'s idea, is that we're workign with an internationally recognized institution to refer to _concepts_ and the correct symbol in your set will be shown, based on those concepts.
15:41:38 <matatk> ... When we get this working, we will hopefully get more parcicipation from people who use symbols.
15:41:41 <matatk> ack janina
15:41:43 <Lisa_> ack next
15:41:44 <matatk> q?
15:43:03 <bkardell_> bkardell_ has joined #coga
15:43:03 <matatk> Jennie: There is a shift towards some people facing cognitive accessibility barriers living independently rather than in group settings. This raises a lot of barriers, especially during COVID.
15:43:26 <matatk> ... These barriers incldue managing budgets, communications, complaints, getting COVID vaccines.
15:43:54 <matatk> ... This is even more complicated when users need AAC.
15:44:11 <Jennie> John Rochford's work: easycovid19.org/project
15:44:19 <matatk> ... I'll put a link into IRC on work being done to provide easier to understand health info. [abovve]
15:44:28 <Lisa_> ack next
15:44:33 <matatk> janina: We're working on adding our markup to the ADA complaint form.
15:44:46 <matatk> ... They're being supportive of this.
15:44:52 <matatk> *Group reacts positively*
15:44:58 <matatk> q?
15:45:59 <matatk> Lisa_: The proprietary nature of symbol sets is a huge barrier. There has been talk about translating sets across languages, but we have a situation where different people in the same state can learn different sets.
15:47:12 <matatk> Lisa_: I was working with someone who wrote his PhD thesis using the Blissymbolics ('Bliss') language. Someone could have a 50 word vocabularly, but can be very expressive in other forms of language. Intelligence comes in many forms.
15:48:26 <matatk> Lisa_: People with discalculia may find interpreting 12- or 24-hour time a huge barrier, but be C-level executives in large businesses. The barriers people face can be very localised.
15:48:42 <matatk> Lisa_: We are concerned that we need to enable participation of everyone in the wider community.
15:49:37 <matatk> Lionel_Wolberger: We're going to be using a new type of spec at W3C - a Registry - and working with Bliss to publish the mechanism for mapping between symbol sets.
15:50:32 <Lisa_> q+
15:50:51 <matatk> janina: Throughout history we've developed technologies and then divided people - e.g. separate phone networks used to be separate. The term 'universal access' was used to describe the point when it was decided to allow everyone to communicate to anyone else.
15:51:26 <matatk> ... The smae thing happened with both email and Braiile (which used to have different coding systems). This is the same problem again, and we need to keep solving these problems.
15:52:06 <matatk> ... This will help solve this one.
15:52:22 <matatk> *Group apprecaites the context!*
15:52:51 <matatk> Lionel_Wolberger: I want to demo simplification. We allow the author to control/indicate what's important in their content.
15:53:00 <matatk> Lionel_Wolberger: An AI can't yet do a good job of this.
15:53:38 <Lisa_> btw my daughter made this demo
15:53:44 <Lisa_> many years ago
15:53:49 <matatk> Lionel_Wolberger: *Shares example from Adapt presetnation - URL to be added here.*
15:54:14 <matatk> Lionel_Wolberger: *Shows the simplification example, created by Lisa_'s daughter.*
15:54:20 <Rain> q+
15:54:27 <Lisa_> ack next
15:54:34 <matatk> q?
15:54:36 <Lionel_Wolberger> https://w3c.github.io/adapt/TPAC/2021/#17
15:54:37 <Github> https://github.com/w3c/coga/pull/17 : Modifying graded-help.html
15:54:40 <Lisa_> ack next
15:55:26 <Lisa_> q+
15:55:45 <matatk> Rain: Is summary the goal of simplification? What we actualy want to accomplish is to make it possible to give the individual access to the full richness and depth of the UI/content.
15:56:30 <matatk> Rain: I love the example, but I think we need to do some real user research before publishing a specification on this, as we need to find out what the individual wants.
15:56:49 <matatk> Rain: We need to make sure we're not excluding the user's goals.
15:57:45 <matatk> Lisa_: The author doesn't restrict access to the user's options: they only mark up what are the critical functions, for when you (the user) needs less. It's up to the user to ask their user agent (e.g. a browser extension, or the browser itself!) to say 'I want less' or 'I want everything'.
15:58:06 <matatk> Lisa_: If you're not feeling well, or on your mobile, you may want less. But it stays in your control.
15:58:17 <Rain> q+ to expand a little more re wanting "less" and how that's defined
15:58:42 <matatk> Lisa_: This isn't necessarily aimed at people in the workplace, but maybe people with dementia, who can't cope with the increased cognitive load.
15:59:16 <rashmi> rashmi has joined #coga
16:00:08 <matatk> Lisa_: Personalizatin is complicated because of context, but there are lots of cases where the more options you have, it can be confusing. E.g. in email, the critical things are the message and sending it.
16:00:19 <rashmi> present+
16:00:25 <matatk> q?
16:00:30 <matatk> ack Lisa_
16:00:36 <Irfan_Ali> rrsagent, make minutes
16:00:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/13-coga-minutes.html Irfan_Ali
16:01:35 <matatk> Rain: Agree with Lisa_, but suggesting we do research before we put this out. Even using this example (clothes shop), some people may be anxious if presented with a choice between Men/Women, but rather would prefer Sports as a category. I do love the example.
16:02:08 <matatk> janina: There's a conversation to continue here. There's AI, but the user's preferences, and it's going to be a mix. Rain is right; we need to make sure the user doesn't feel controlled by the machine.
16:02:37 <matatk> Fazio: We found that a lot of outbursts that come e.g. from children with cognitive disabilities are because of barriers to expression.
16:02:57 <matatk> Lionel_Wolberger: This has been a good discussion and we in Adapt really need to hear COGA and want to coordinate more meetings, and cover the rest of the attributes.
16:03:10 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
16:03:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/13-coga-minutes.html matatk
16:04:42 <Lisa_> Topic: content usable next version
16:04:52 <Lisa_> agenda?
16:05:01 <Lisa_> close item 1
16:05:06 <Lisa_> q?
16:05:10 <Lisa_> ack next
16:05:11 <Zakim> Rain, you wanted to expand a little more re wanting "less" and how that's defined
16:05:17 <Lisa_> close item 1
16:05:21 <Lisa_> close item 2
16:05:30 <Lisa_> close item 3
16:09:18 <Lisa_> rrsagent, make minutes
16:09:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/13-coga-minutes.html Lisa_
16:10:11 <Lisa_> making content useable: https://www.w3.org/TR/coga-usable/
16:10:53 <JohnRochford_> JohnRochford_ has joined #coga
16:12:32 <Rain> Rain has joined #coga
16:12:43 <Rain> Structure deck: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1PTCdFcg6NRK4exNX9LIquCGFHIwthQod4lgXpQx4vKw/edit#slide=id.p
16:13:53 <Lisa_> agenda?
16:15:04 <Lisa_> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JXa94s2lbzJ0v9FHasxxws3CsOcljHHBdlQ2VOxYqAQ/edit#
16:15:08 <Jennie> *Jennie is present, eating lunch quietly in the background
16:15:19 <Lisa_> time line: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JXa94s2lbzJ0v9FHasxxws3CsOcljHHBdlQ2VOxYqAQ/edit#
16:18:56 <Lisa_> are you there?
16:22:18 <JustineP> JustineP has joined #coga
16:22:31 <Lisa_> anyone in the room there?
16:27:31 <Lisa_> scribe: JustineP
16:28:19 <julierawe_> julierawe_ has joined #coga
16:28:34 <Lisa_> anyone in the room there?
16:28:38 <Rain> present+
16:28:38 <Rain> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1PTCdFcg6NRK4exNX9LIquCGFHIwthQod4lgXpQx4vKw/edit#slide=id.p
16:29:03 <Lisa_> zakim, next item
16:29:03 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Overview of what we are doing with content useable update. See  https://www.w3.org/TR/coga-usable/ and  our timelines at
16:29:05 <Zakim> ... https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JXa94s2lbzJ0v9FHasxxws3CsOcljHHBdlQ2VOxYqAQ/edit#heading=h.ykqwx9vsxdya -- taken up [from lisa]
16:29:10 <JustineP> Rain: Presenting slides on existing structure of Content Usable.
16:29:46 <JustineP> ...we received feedback that content was repetitive, difficult to follow, and lacked supporting research references.
16:30:40 <JustineP> ...I am working with user researcher to segment responses. It seems 50% of people can't find content they are looking for.
16:31:28 <JustineP> ...We have the summary, introduction, user stories, design guide, testing, and use cases/personas.
16:31:39 <JustineP> ...People seem to get lost between patterns and user stories.
16:31:52 <JustineP_> JustineP_ has joined #coga
16:32:32 <JustineP> ...and then we have glossary and appendix which seems to be useful for people.
16:33:19 <Jennie> *Yes, definitely an echo, but doing my best to listen
16:33:44 <Lisa_> COGA ROOM:CHANGE: Parksville - North Tower 3rd floor
16:34:02 <julierawe_> present+
16:34:16 <JustineP> present+
16:35:01 <JustineP> Rain: We have objectives repeated in 4 places.
16:35:19 <julierawe_> COGA IN-PERSON UPDATE: All of our meetings today are in Parksville North Tower 3rd Floor.
16:35:33 <JustineP> ...in user stories, we have objective titles followed by stories, user needs, and then personas.
16:36:08 <JustineP> In testing, we start with objective, then overview, followed by patterns, user needs (and details), related stories.
16:36:31 <JustineP> s/testing/design
16:37:09 <JustineP> ...<Rain continues to summarize format>
16:37:19 <Lisa_> q?
16:37:27 <Lisa_> COGA ROOM:CHANGE: Parksville - North Tower 3rd floor
16:37:50 <JustineP> ...We are looking to brainstorm about structure based on feedback we received.
16:39:38 <JustineP> ...Idea 1: Have overview and then main buckets for personas, objectives (intro followed by design pattern), mapping table, inclusive testing overview, glossary, then references.
16:39:46 <Lisa_> q?
16:40:21 <JustineP> ...<Rain shares an example of how structure for Idea 1 would be laid out>
16:40:54 <Lisa_> q+
16:42:01 <JustineP> ...Idea 2: Have overview and then have document broken out by role (e.g., designers, engineers).
16:43:02 <JustineP> Lisa: For Idea 1, some teams are guided by user stories and there isn't a 1:1 mapping.
16:43:19 <JustineP> ...you might have 3 user needs per story.
16:44:01 <JustineP> ...we could put user needs into an appendix, or organize by objective.
16:44:45 <JustineP> ...If we have testing split by pattern, it could be confusing and redundant.
16:45:26 <JustineP> ...Consider unit testing by pattern and have user testing as another section.
16:46:24 <JustineP> ...User testing has sections that aren't specific to a need (e.g., how to get consent).
16:47:10 <JustineP> Rain: For user testing, we would still have the testing section.
16:48:40 <Rashmi_> Rashmi_ has joined #coga
16:48:52 <JustineP> Lisa: I thought idea of organizing by cycle would be interesting but it might be difficult to use that approach.
16:49:45 <JustineP> Rain: <creating a concept for "Idea 3">
16:49:52 <Rashmi__> Rashmi__ has joined #coga
16:50:08 <JustineP> Lisa: User research might also work under techniques.
16:50:18 <JustineP> Rain: Those would be in appendix and linked out under patterns.
16:50:33 <JustineP> ...We received a lot of feedback that people thought the doc was missing evidence.
16:50:46 <JustineP> ...which tells me that people are having trouble finding the information.
16:51:09 <Rashmi__> present+
16:51:23 <JustineP> Lisa: We will have overlap depending on how we organize.
16:51:46 <Jennie> q+
16:52:30 <JustineP> Rain: We received feedback around restructuring and surface links that makes it easy to navigate across related content.
16:53:06 <JustineP> Lisa: Perhaps we should link to personas at the objective level next to the user needs.
16:53:28 <JustineP> ...right now emphasis is on the design guide.
16:53:50 <JustineP> ...we received feedback that people liked the different entry points in the document.
16:54:12 <Jennie> q?
16:54:19 <JustineP> ...We could break out personas into a different document and link to them.
16:54:35 <JustineP> Rain: I like that idea if we make sure the connection is clear.
16:54:51 <JustineP> ...we will make sure that the concept works through validation.
16:55:56 <JustineP> Rain: Tables seem to be a popular feature. Maybe multiple tables will be helpful (e.g., one for patterns, another for lifecycle)
16:56:31 <julierawe_> +1 to Rain's comment about people wanting a quick overview without having to read
16:56:43 <JustineP> Lisa: Maybe we could change order and have objectives organized by design.
16:57:05 <JustineP> ...So designers would be directed to design objectives, etc.
16:57:20 <Rain> q?
16:57:29 <Rain> ack Lisa_
16:57:31 <Rain> ack Jen
16:57:31 <Lisa_> ack next
16:57:58 <JustineP> Jennie: Have we validated feedback against the Silver structure? They are looking at similarities in how someone progresses through documentation.
16:58:19 <JustineP> ...In the past, we received feedback around having content in one document as opposed to spreading across multiple documents.
16:58:54 <JustineP> ...Consider a design type research with stakeholders.
16:59:21 <JustineP> ...Present concepts and ask where they would expect to find that information. Include experienced people and people who have never used the document.
16:59:40 <JustineP> Rain: Kiki has started to put together that testing and analysis.
16:59:51 <JustineP> ...She will share in the next structure subgroup meeting.
17:00:07 <Lisa_> ack next
17:00:22 <JustineP> Lisa: Let's make user testing as broad as possible.
17:00:39 <JustineP> Rain: Kiki is including people who responded to the survey and also people who are less familiar.
17:01:21 <Rashmi_> q+
17:01:40 <JustineP> Lisa: Adding a comment to Idea 3 that we work through objectives and order by role/lifecycle.
17:02:57 <Rashmi_> q-
17:04:17 <JustineP> ...If you are an engineer, you would be directed to specific content.
17:04:35 <JustineP> Rain: Maybe we can add tags to the document to help with searching for content.
17:04:41 <Lisa_> q+
17:04:46 <Lisa_> ack next
17:05:03 <JustineP> Lisa: Also consider tagging for technology such as HTML, video, etc.
17:06:18 <JustineP> ...The reason to have content in 1 document included considerations for publications process.
17:07:09 <Rashmi__> q+
17:08:09 <julierawe_> q+
17:08:40 <JustineP> ...now we are thinking about breaking out into separate documents for clarity. We should get approval to break out into separate docs.
17:08:41 <stevelee> stevelee has joined #coga
17:09:26 <Lisa_> ack next
17:09:50 <JustineP> Rashmi: Can we take a cue from the structure from supplemental guidance?
17:10:04 <JustineP> Rain: That's debatable based on responses from our research.
17:11:19 <JustineP> ...Our user research showed that too much navigation points can be confusing.
17:11:29 <JustineP> s/too much/too many
17:11:55 <JustineP> Rashmi: Thanks.
17:12:21 <Lisa_> ack next
17:13:01 <JustineP> Julie: In EO's revised user stories, they provide a link to COGA's personas.
17:13:16 <Jennie> q+
17:13:22 <mbgower> mbgower has joined #coga
17:13:33 <Lisa_> ack next
17:14:00 <JustineP> Jennie: Follow up activities are needed for groups that are linking to portions of the document. They will need to update their links.
17:14:32 <Lisa_> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CeqiSy3tVDoeBzCG8LpkyFT1fvugGk86JuT6NvfSiAA/edit#
17:14:52 <JustineP> Lisa: Adding a link to a document with suggestions for next version of Content Usable.
17:15:04 <polx> polx has joined #coga
17:15:43 <julierawe_> EO's revised user story for Ian links to a COGA user story—it is the first link in the "Related WAI Resources" section: https://deploy-preview-113--wai-people-use-web.netlify.app/people-use-web/user-stories-two/
17:15:58 <Jennie> Thank you!
17:15:59 <JustineP> ...We should look at objectives and labels, related to what information is included in a pattern.
17:16:20 <aaronchu> aaronchu has joined #coga
17:16:25 <JustineP> ...Do we want to redo objective names? Might be related to findability issue.
17:16:39 <JustineP> ...We might need more patterns to better organize.
17:17:01 <JustineP> ...Maybe patterns would be more task related (e.g., when designing a form or task).
17:17:15 <Jennie> LOVE ensuring words like form are in there! That will help a lot of people see their role in the document!
17:17:33 <Lisa_> ack next
17:18:00 <JustineP> Lisa: Current format isn't intuitive for people to look for relevant patterns.
17:18:16 <JustineP> ...Will people know which objective to look in for making a clear button?
17:18:23 <JustineP> John: Good point.
17:19:11 <Rain> q+
17:19:27 <Lisa_> ack next
17:19:31 <julierawe_> q+
17:20:03 <JustineP> Rain: This is a good discussion in thinking about patterns and pattern names.
17:20:18 <JustineP> ...I will work with Kiki to get input.
17:20:38 <JustineP> ...The current doc has a simple overview and a table of contents.
17:20:49 <JustineP> ...People don't know how to use it because its hidden.
17:21:15 <JustineP> ...We would list all patterns that are included in a particular objective moving forward.
17:21:59 <Lisa_> ack next
17:22:00 <JustineP> Lisa: Starting with the basics, do we have the right objectives?
17:22:43 <JustineP> ...We know the first version of Content Usable will be enhanced/iterated on.
17:23:10 <Rashmi__> +1
17:23:53 <polx> polx has joined #coga
17:23:53 <JustineP> Julie: Seeing the objectives together is helpful to get a sense of the overarching principles.
17:24:35 <Lisa_> Q?
17:24:41 <JustineP> ...Maybe we could design a way for people to search by design element, user need, etc.
17:24:54 <JustineP> ...We would still end up with some duplication.
17:24:59 <kirkwood> q+
17:25:32 <Lisa_> ack next
17:26:27 <JustineP> John: One thing that is missing in accessibility work is cognitive effort or people being overwhelmed by information.
17:26:31 <Jennie> Great idea John k!
17:26:42 <Jennie> Maybe the term is cognitive effort
17:27:08 <JustineP> Lisa: I will add "effort" to our suggestions for the document.
17:27:39 <aaronchu> aaronchu has joined #coga
17:27:40 <Jennie> q+
17:28:04 <JustineP> ...maybe we can add information about what content is in each objective.
17:28:23 <julierawe_> +1 to Lisa's idea about adding more keywords to help users know what's in each objective
17:28:27 <Lisa_> ack next
17:28:43 <JustineP> Jennie: I am concerned about the length of the heading becoming difficult to understand.
17:28:45 <julierawe_> +1 to Jennie
17:28:59 <kirkwood> to my general thought of missing effort, “spoon theory” or cognitive load
17:29:28 <Rain> Yes! Everyone loves the quickref
17:29:30 <JustineP> ...If there is a way to sort by content (e.g., images) that would be help for quick navigation to the content you need.
17:29:42 <JustineP> s/be help/be helpful
17:30:17 <Rain> q+
17:30:51 <mbgower> mbgower has joined #coga
17:31:00 <JustineP> Lisa: We could make a web version with updated content (group discussed normative vs. informative).
17:31:07 <ShawnT> ShawnT has joined #coga
17:31:23 <JustineP> ...It would be an updated W3C note.
17:31:41 <Lisa_> ack next
17:32:17 <JustineP> Jennie: We should keep major content in published note.
17:32:53 <JustineP> Rain: I am concerned with having too many versions of the document. The supplemental document could be difficult to find and cause confusion.
17:33:19 <JustineP> ...Our references to the "web version" are confusing since the document is already on a web page.
17:33:40 <JustineP> ...Having other formats could cause a lot of confusion.
17:34:03 <JustineP> ...The quick reference is successful because it has high level information that links to a file with more detail.
17:34:12 <JustineP> ...We should be careful with our approach.
17:34:59 <JustineP> Lisa: We can continue this discussion after the break.
17:35:46 <JustineP> Rain: I'll share the presentation with people on this call so that you can add feedback/adjust in the next session.
17:36:33 <JustineP> ...brainstorming gives us a good opportunity to get feedback around categorization.
17:37:00 <JustineP> Lisa: We should take an action to consider categories.
17:37:09 <Lisa_> ack next
17:38:17 <JustineP> ...should we take a break or continue?
17:38:24 <julierawe_> q+
17:38:35 <Lisa_> ack next
17:39:06 <JustineP> Julie: I would like to explore a user story around someone with autism.
17:40:13 <Rashmi__> Thanks everyone for the great insights ,I'll have to drop out now!
17:40:26 <JustineP> ...we should think carefully about each of the scripts and potential stereotypes.
17:40:30 <Jennie> * I can scribe in about 20 minutes
17:40:35 <JustineP> Rain: I will follow up.
17:41:15 <JustineP> Julie: Is plain language and complex sentences relevant to someone who has autism?
17:41:29 <JustineP> s/is/are
17:42:05 <JustineP> Rain: COGA can move on to other topics if desired. This was a great feedback session.
17:42:55 <JustineP> Lisa: Let's take a 30 min break.
17:43:15 <JustineP> ...Resume at 11:10AM Pacific.
17:44:23 <JustineP> ...Same room and login.
17:45:13 <JustineP> Julie: Would also like input on EO scripts.
17:45:56 <Jennie> * Stepping away. Back at 10 after the hour
17:46:03 <JustineP> Lisa: Back in 30 minutes!
17:59:47 <polx> polx has joined #coga
18:08:14 <Lisa_> ack next
18:08:26 <Lisa_> zakim, next item
18:08:26 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Update from research sub group -- taken up [from lisa]
18:09:51 <Lisa_> scribe: jennie
18:11:00 <Lisa_> topic: eo scripts
18:11:01 <julierawe> julierawe has joined #coga
18:11:04 <julierawe> present+
18:11:07 <julierawe> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OVcPW87H6AE6_4Gs3eQd6XQFz95UXBUiGLsdOw5M5sU/edit
18:11:20 <Jennie> Julie: this is the video script
18:11:21 <julierawe> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ENNqu9SN4UNJQVAEqLRifzcf8kJrex7BYGAtZiNcm_w/edit#
18:11:30 <Jennie> ...This is for feedback about the user story
18:11:42 <polx> polx has joined #coga
18:11:49 <Jennie> ...We may want to flag some things in this one
18:12:29 <Jennie> ...I want to stick with the Ian story to show you the differences between the user story and the script
18:12:38 <Jennie> ...and to flag things we want to think about together
18:12:53 <Jennie> ...Looking at the 2nd link
18:13:02 <Jennie> ...The description of Ian
18:13:18 <mbgower> mbgower has joined #coga
18:13:32 <Jennie> Julie: Each one starts with a whole quote
18:14:00 <Jennie> ...We have already talked about why we don't want him to be a part-time clerk
18:14:18 <Jennie> ...John R suggested yesterday that how the webpage changes are described may be something we want to review
18:14:59 <Jennie> ...The 3rd paragraph talks about difficulty with language
18:15:00 <kirkwood> +1 to John R’s point
18:15:34 <Jennie> Julie: In the 3rd paragraph (reads from the document)
18:15:53 <Jennie> ...I am trying to tease apart the complex sentences vs non-literal language
18:16:03 <Jennie> ...This is more specific than plain language
18:16:13 <Jennie> ...4th paragraph references living with his parents
18:16:27 <Jennie> ...Then we move to the barrier examples - the 2nd barrier
18:16:55 <Jennie> ...(reads from the document)
18:17:20 <kirkwood> maybe using an example of an explanation using a long analogy would be good example?
18:18:08 <Jennie> Lisa: Discussing problems with Ian vs essential from Ian may be a way to discuss this
18:18:13 <Jennie> ...He can't do it
18:18:41 <Jennie> ...The structure will be important for Ian, the findability
18:19:04 <Jennie> ...Some use symbols, but not Ian
18:19:15 <Jennie> Julie: I think we may want to suggest replacing the plain language for Ian
18:19:24 <Jennie> Lisa: I would rather do this one with Rain
18:19:47 <Jennie> ...Cognitive overload may be the idea to add in
18:20:08 <Jennie> ...Tracking the stuff, figuring out when there are too many tabs open
18:20:20 <Jennie> ...This might be more problematic
18:20:41 <Jennie> Julie: In the same document, there is a section on assistive technology and adaptive strategies used
18:20:59 <Jennie> ...These are not in the video script, but Shadi asked us to raise issues now
18:21:13 <Jennie> ...There are multiple strategies - 3 of them are on reading and writing
18:21:24 <Jennie> ...Those seem odd for Ian
18:21:48 <Jennie> ...With little time to review them, and the request to review the User Stories
18:22:18 <Jennie> Lisa: I think maybe we should add to the script an overall point: we didn't feel Ian's persona was convincing/ relating well to the persona
18:22:30 <Jennie> Julie: OK, we will pause on Ian
18:22:34 <kirkwood> not convincing about his issues and personas  +1
18:23:07 <kirkwood> +1 to too much focus on reading and writing
18:23:58 <Jennie> Julie: I will specify in the document that we have concerns about the User Story
18:24:08 <Jennie> ...and, we will submit a github issue about his user story
18:24:25 <Jennie> ...Let's move to the next script: Luis
18:25:59 <Jennie> Lisa: If he was an entreprenneur
18:26:27 <Jennie> ...Things that may be their favorite of something, then they have a business doing it
18:26:47 <Jennie> John K: It can also take off in the online world
18:27:17 <Jennie> Lisa: if he was a baseball fan, that could translate into selling fan pictures, or something
18:27:56 <Jennie> ...That makes the work / effort ratio different
18:28:00 <Jennie> ...So he can come to the games
18:28:11 <Jennie> ...He is trying to sell Yankee fan stuff if he can't come to the games
18:28:41 <Jennie> Julie: I think they did not take us up on that - the entreprennaur story
18:29:07 <Jennie> Lisa: Why did they reject the idea?
18:30:08 <Jennie> John K: I think it may be worth suggesting it again
18:30:45 <Jennie> Julie: Summary (Julie reads from the script)
18:33:24 <Jennie> Jennie: is there a reason there are so many apps?
18:33:39 <Jennie> Julie: They are talking about one that works well for him, then that there are problems
18:33:54 <Jennie> John K: Is he a child or an adult?
18:33:58 <Jennie> Julie: He is an adult
18:34:17 <Jennie> ...We originally asked to make him a father as well as a business owner
18:34:25 <Jennie> ...These were not included in the revised version
18:35:29 <Jennie> Jennie: Maybe we can specificy it is an integrated community league?
18:35:39 <Jennie> ...That may help people recognize that many people use this app together
18:35:57 <Jennie> John K: I am not sure I am comfortable
18:36:09 <ShawnT> ShawnT has joined #coga
18:36:11 <Jennie> Julie: I think it is because we hear about his love of basketball before his job
18:36:16 <Jennie> ...This happens with another story too
18:37:37 <Jennie> Jennie: Maybe make him work at the concession stand at the stadium, and is a super fan!
18:37:43 <Jennie> Lisa: Which is a job I love!
18:39:06 <Jennie> Jennie: Maybe change to a scheduling app for work?
18:39:19 <Jennie> Lisa: Maybe he can be trying to schedule working when his friend is attending - so he gets a ride
18:39:57 <Jennie> Julie: If we suggest changing his job to working at the concession stand, is there a change like to show he can learn technology?
18:40:14 <Jennie> Lisa: He often enjoys conversations with fans about the team
18:40:33 <Jennie> ...he is an asset
18:41:22 <Jennie> Jennie: maybe he reviews the team website and learns information he shares with customers during conversation
18:42:46 <Jennie> (group brainstormed on wording)
18:42:58 <Jennie> Julie: He is having success visiting the team's website
18:43:19 <Jennie> ...Then cut the information about the league's app?
18:44:31 <Jennie> (group talked about scheduling apps, time card apps)
18:44:42 <Jennie> (group talked about log in difficulties)
18:45:30 <Jennie> Julie: then row 3 we won't need.
18:45:57 <Jennie> ...For row 4 - should we replace that with the time card as well?
18:46:31 <Jennie> ...In EO's example, all works well until the "buying tickets to a game"
18:46:38 <Jennie> ...I don't think he needs to buy tickets to a game
18:46:50 <Jennie> ...EO has the conflict with trying to buy the tickets
18:47:03 <Jennie> ...Is that a 2nd issue he may have? Or replace this?
18:47:30 <Jennie> Lisa: I think we should keep anything that is ok. For example, when they have an away game, he wants to buy tickets to go
18:47:34 <Jennie> ...since he is a super fan!
18:48:06 <Jennie> John K: Maybe we change it the ticketing app to "the new ticketing app"?
18:48:56 <Jennie> Julie: OK we will suggest that he works at the stadium
18:50:22 <Jennie> ...I think we can show that he played basketball in high school and now works at the stadium
18:50:50 <Jennie> ...That he is good with the website, but struggles with the time card app and buying tickets for away games with the new ticketing app
18:51:10 <Jennie> Lisa: We can capture the reason - he is a super fan, adds to the brand
18:51:28 <Jennie> Julie: I think we need to show he is proficient on the team's website
18:52:29 <Jennie> (group discussed photos on the website)
18:53:50 <Jennie> He loves to review the featured photos on the website (example from the Minnesota Vikings https://www.vikings.com/photos/)
18:54:01 <Jennie> Lisa: We want to show that he is adding value as an employee
18:54:07 <Jennie> John K: and he is included in the community
18:54:14 <Jennie> Lisa: They probably take photos of him too
18:54:30 <Jennie> ...and a couple of bad apps is something that can destroy this
18:54:36 <Jennie> ...He almost has it all!
18:55:52 <Jennie> John K: Starbucks has done this, and shows that customers specifically come back to see them
18:56:00 <Jennie> Lisa: It is part of the beauty of diversity
18:56:21 <Jennie> ...This is an asset - someone that is enthusiastic
18:57:05 <Jennie> Julie: should we open a github issue today, to let them know we have this idea?
18:57:56 <Jennie> Jennie: Maybe check with John Rochford too for a quick check?
18:58:12 <Jennie> Lisa: I think we should have the story arc, so they don't have to edit it from scratch
18:58:27 <Jennie> ...We are trying to build him up as an asset, adding to the brand, the joy in the stadium
18:58:45 <Jennie> ...And that bad apps - in the critical places, can make the situation really difficult
18:59:03 <Jennie> ...Having that this is what we want to get across, and give an outline of how the conversation looks
18:59:10 <Jennie> ...As similar to what we have as we can
18:59:24 <Jennie> Julie: Do we want the conflict here to be that everything is good with the team's website
18:59:36 <Jennie> ...Do we want to shift to a problem with the timecard app?
19:00:47 <Jennie> Jennie: yes, the website is mostly accessible, but the timecard app is less visible
19:01:18 <Jennie> Lisa: Maybe something like "I am having a problem now with the new app"
19:01:27 <Jennie> ...for the time card
19:01:56 <mbgower> mbgower has joined #coga
19:02:55 <Jennie> Jennie: Maybe that he was able to do this before, but he is having trouble completing it accurately, or consistently, and his boss is asking him about the change
19:03:03 <Jennie> John K: the new time keeping app
19:03:18 <Jennie> Julie: The big challenge with the job is logging my hours in the new time keeping app
19:03:31 <Jennie> ...It is not easy to use like the old time keeping app
19:03:38 <Jennie> John K: Everything is moved around?
19:03:47 <Jennie> Lisa: It is much more confusing for me than the old one
19:04:03 <Jennie> John K: I knew where the blue box was in the corner to use it but it is not there anymore
19:04:26 <Jennie> Julie: They had in the draft: I don't know where to be? That was in the draft, and think we can keep that
19:04:34 <Jennie> John K: All the screens are different
19:04:43 <Jennie> ...It always times out
19:04:58 <Jennie> Lisa: It times out while I am trying to answer their questions
19:05:10 <Jennie> John K: especially when I miss that one checkbox you have to check!
19:05:22 <Jennie> Julie: (reads from the draft)
19:06:00 <Jennie> ...So this arc is always in the realm of basketball
19:06:05 <Jennie> ...and it involves his job
19:06:12 <Jennie> Lisa: and jobs are so important!
19:06:20 <Jennie> ...He tells people proudly where he works!
19:06:23 <julierawe> https://deploy-preview-113--wai-people-use-web.netlify.app/people-use-web/user-stories-five/
19:06:37 <Jennie> Julie: I just shared the longer user story
19:06:46 <Jennie> ...If we just hop to the barrier example
19:07:21 <Jennie> ...They have timeouts as a barrier
19:07:30 <Jennie> Lisa: And forms, this is a part of forms
19:07:35 <Jennie> John K: and breadcrumbs
19:07:48 <Jennie> Julie: Our revised script doesn't touch on plain language, which is the 2nd barrier
19:09:07 <Jennie> John K: I knew where the blue box was in the corner to use it but it is not there anymore
19:09:37 <Jennie> John K: Is familiar design in there still?
19:09:48 <Jennie> Lisa: That's the problem - it is not familiar
19:10:20 <Jennie> Julie: I think I will take this new thing, and write up a github version of it.
19:10:29 <Jennie> ...It will start with the things we want to change, then our suggested new arc
19:10:37 <Jennie> ...and how it applies to both the script and the user story
19:10:45 <Jennie> ...Shall I send that to everyone to look at it?
19:10:51 <Jennie> ...I will also check in with John Rochford too
19:11:09 <Jennie> Lisa: Please add the COGA tag in Github
19:11:50 <Jennie> ...Send what you want to put into the github issue to the list, give them 24 hours to respond, then they have a chance to check it
19:11:59 <Jennie> ...just not on the weekend
19:12:29 <Jennie> Julie: They may say "why if he is proficient why is having problem with this?"
19:14:42 <Jennie> Jennie: I can do a quick review
19:15:44 <Jennie> ...tomorrow morning
19:16:40 <Jennie> ...We want to specify the types of interactions required for the timecard app vs how he is successfully using the website.
19:17:26 <kirkwood> present+
19:18:00 <Lisa_> rrsagent, make minutes
19:18:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/13-coga-minutes.html Lisa_
19:33:38 <shawn> shawn has joined #coga
19:53:40 <polx> polx has joined #coga
20:02:50 <mbgower> mbgower has joined #coga
20:03:51 <kirkwood> kirkwood has joined #COGA
20:21:06 <ShawnT> ShawnT has joined #coga
20:21:46 <Lisa_> topic: eo scripts
20:21:51 <ShawnT> present+
20:22:12 <julierawe> julierawe has joined #coga
20:22:16 <julierawe> present+
20:22:18 <Lisa_> scribe+ lisa, john
20:22:30 <Lisa_> julie reviews what we did so far
20:23:02 <Lisa_> touch based with rain, and johns comments about the IAN
20:23:53 <JohnRochford> JohnRochford has joined #coga
20:24:06 <JohnRochford> present+
20:24:32 <Lisa_> review the key points from this morning (see above)
20:24:37 <kirkwood> kirkwood has joined #COGA
20:24:42 <Lisa_> present+
20:24:53 <julierawe> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OVcPW87H6AE6_4Gs3eQd6XQFz95UXBUiGLsdOw5M5sU/edit#
20:26:09 <jenniferS> jenniferS has joined #coga
20:26:13 <jenniferS> present+
20:27:27 <JohnRochford> q+
20:27:31 <Lisa_> looking at preety script
20:28:01 <Lisa_> q+
20:28:33 <Lisa_> ack next
20:28:53 <kirkwood> kirkwood has joined #COGA
20:28:57 <Lisa_> john: are we putting it in github
20:29:08 <Lisa_> julie: yes, this is just gathering info
20:31:16 <ShawnT> What about "I could not understand why..."
20:32:18 <PaulG> PaulG has joined #coga
20:33:03 <PaulG> PaulG has left #coga
20:33:29 <Lisa_> changes are being tracked in the doc
20:34:52 <Lisa_> lisa: does not feel this is a key issue
20:34:58 <Lisa_> e books
20:37:51 <JohnRochford> Lisa: I can't do read aloud like the blind do, at high speed.
20:38:23 <JohnRochford> Lisa: Read aloud is great when you start learning to read, and when experiencing difficulty with reading.
20:38:52 <JohnRochford> Lisa: In an educational setting, it's really slow to find anything in a book.
20:40:16 <kirkwood> ‘chunking’ is needed, agreed.
20:40:20 <JohnRochford> Lisa: Read Aloud for people with the combo of auditory and cognitive difficulties just does not work, especially because of the inordinate time it takes to find info.
20:40:40 <JohnRochford> Lisa: I like facts presented in callout boxes.
20:41:17 <ShawnT> q+
20:41:55 <kirkwood> its an audio verson of “a wall of text”
20:46:14 <ShawnT> this seems like to be a problem when we are looking at diagnoses instead of user needs, we seem to be talking about stereotypes.
20:46:33 <Lisa_> lisa: the audio wont help with long borring text
20:47:03 <Lisa_> +1 shawn
20:47:09 <polx> polx has joined #coga
20:47:42 <Lisa_> everyone is diifrent
20:48:11 <Lisa_> adding they are dyslexic and adhd is about steriotypes, and what people need wont match
20:49:49 <kirkwood> present+
20:54:34 <ShawnT> q+
20:56:15 <kirkwood> “in my case it did help” ?
20:57:00 <ShawnT> What if we ask to word it as this helps but didn't fit the problem.
20:57:11 <kirkwood> “I have issues with attention but in my case this did help me”?
21:04:44 <ShawnT> There's predictive text technology
21:36:27 <ShawnT> Pull quote that might work for the full story "Visual supports, such as icons and images, and good use of whitespace around what she is looking at can help her to focus."
21:37:19 <mbgower> mbgower has joined #coga
21:39:14 <Jennie> Jennie has joined #coga
21:44:46 <Jennie> zakim, who's here?
21:44:46 <Zakim> Present: Jennie, rashmi, Rain, Lisa, julierawe, aaronchu, Roy, ShawnT, Fazio, Maya, David, Klaus, EA, Becca_Monteleone, Michal_Lahav, Le, kirkwood, MichaelC, Rachael, Kiki,
21:44:49 <Zakim> ... present, Irfan_Ali, JohnRochford, ShawnLawtonHenry, matatk, PaulG, JudyB, janina, Lionel_Wolberger, julierawe_, JustineP, Rashmi__, Lisa_, jenniferS
21:44:49 <Zakim> On IRC I see Jennie, polx, kirkwood, julierawe, ShawnT, shawn, aaronchu, bkardell_, janina, Lisa_, RRSAgent, Mike5Matrix, Github, jcraig, Rachael, alastairc, Zakim, trackbot
21:47:33 <julierawe> Hi, Jennie: Lisa, ShawnT, JohnK and I are working on the Yun story.
21:49:28 <Jennie> Thanks Julie! I can join in 10 minutes.
21:49:40 <ShawnT> ShawnT has joined #coga
21:49:51 <ShawnT> Yun: https://wai-people-use-web-videos.netlify.app/people-use-web/videos/stories/yun/
21:56:42 <polx> polx has joined #coga
22:14:53 <ShawnT> ShawnT has joined #coga
22:17:11 <mbgower> mbgower has joined #coga
22:21:43 <mbgower> mbgower has joined #coga
22:25:28 <stevelee> stevelee has joined #coga
22:26:08 <Jennie> Hi Steve. We are meeting in the COGA zoom room. Not scribing much - working in a doc
22:41:49 <Lisa_> title template: coga review of preety script pargaf 1
22:46:34 <mbgower> mbgower has joined #coga
22:53:47 <ShawnT> Do you want me / Julie and I to talk to Shadi about adding the issues in and our template?
22:59:04 <Lisa_> rrsagent, make minutes
22:59:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/13-coga-minutes.html Lisa_
23:02:24 <Lisa_> https://ti.to/w3c/tpac-2022-public-breakouts
23:03:08 <ShawnT> https://www.w3.org/2022/09/TPAC/breakouts.html
23:04:48 <ShawnT> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Meetings/TPAC_2022#AG_WG_Meeting_at_TPAC_2022
23:05:14 <Lisa_> rrsagent, make minutes
23:05:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/13-coga-minutes.html Lisa_
23:08:03 <PaulG> PaulG has joined #coga
23:08:12 <PaulG> PaulG has left #coga
23:41:24 <ShawnT> ShawnT has joined #coga
23:51:12 <ShawnT> ShawnT has joined #coga
23:51:33 <ShawnT> ShawnT has joined #coga
23:51:37 <polx> polx has joined #coga
23:54:13 <polx> polx has joined #coga