IRC log of wot on 2022-09-06

Timestamps are in UTC.

11:51:44 [RRSAgent]
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11:51:44 [RRSAgent]
logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/09/06-wot-irc
11:51:54 [kaz]
meeting: WoT Pre-TPAC Meeting - Day 1
11:53:24 [kaz]
present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_McCool
11:56:17 [citrullin]
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12:00:48 [Mizushima]
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12:01:25 [kaz]
present+ Kunihiko_Toumura
12:01:53 [ktoumura]
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12:03:09 [citrullin_]
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12:03:46 [kaz]
present+ Daniel_Peintner, Michael_Lagally, Tomoaki_Mizushima
12:04:09 [citrullin_]
Is there a dial-in number in order for me to listen?
12:04:50 [McCool]
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12:04:59 [kaz]
zakim, who is on the call?
12:04:59 [Zakim]
Present: Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_McCool, Kunihiko_Toumura, Daniel_Peintner, Michael_Lagally, Tomoaki_Mizushima
12:05:16 [mlagally]
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12:05:35 [citrullin_]
I am on a conference
12:05:36 [dape]
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12:06:58 [kaz]
agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/F2F_meeting,_September_2022#Tuesday.2C_September_6
12:07:26 [kaz]
present+ Philipp_Blum
12:07:41 [kaz]
topic: Agenda
12:07:45 [mlagally]
topic: schedule
12:08:15 [kaz]
-> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/main/PRESENTATIONS/2022-09-hybrid-f2f/2022-09-06-WoT-F2F-Opening-McCool.pdf McCool's slides
12:08:19 [kaz]
s/topic: Agenda//
12:08:32 [kaz]
scribenick: mlagally
12:08:39 [mlagally]
mmc: today we discuss new charter proposals
12:08:51 [mlagally]
... then Kaz reviews presentation guidelines
12:09:10 [mlagally]
... this is specifically important for accessibility joint call
12:09:49 [mlagally]
... goal is to get some draft text for the next charter
12:10:26 [kaz]
topic: Presentation guidelines
12:10:27 [mlagally]
topic: Presentation guidelines (Kaz)
12:10:35 [kaz]
-> https://www.w3.org/2022/Talks/TPAC/hybrid-training/ PLH's slides
12:10:39 [kaz]
s/topic: Presentation guidelines//
12:10:55 [mlagally]
s/topic: Presentation guidelines//
12:11:34 [mlagally]
kaz: As mentioned previously, for TPAC hybrid meeting has some challenges
12:11:44 [mlagally]
... various people from all over the world
12:12:04 [mlagally]
... need to accommodate the in agenda
12:12:28 [mlagally]
... please be careful about accessibility of your slides
12:13:01 [mlagally]
... there's a speaker in the conference room in Vancouver
12:13:25 [mlagally]
... please review code of conduct and accessibility and internationalisation
12:13:30 [mlagally]
... speak clearly and slowly
12:13:50 [mlagally]
... HTML slide set would be best, PPT is ok
12:14:12 [mlagally]
... check your PPT slides using the accessibility checker
12:15:01 [mlagally]
mmc: you mention 10 mins to change the room - we plan for 5 mins, at the end or start?
12:15:18 [mlagally]
kaz: end 5 mins earlier, 5 mins past the hour
12:15:26 [mlagally]
mmc: any boilerplate?
12:15:45 [mlagally]
kaz: Will update the template
12:15:51 [kaz]
https://www.w3.org/Consortium/cepc/
12:16:13 [mlagally]
mmc: we should enable transcripts
12:16:14 [mlagally]
q+
12:17:00 [mlagally]
kaz: tooling: we use IRC and zoom for TPAC and pre-meeting
12:17:07 [mlagally]
... GitHub issues and pull requests
12:17:31 [McCool]
q?
12:17:32 [mlagally]
.... we could also record session and transcript - should be confirmed in the beginning
12:17:58 [kaz]
ack m
12:17:59 [mlagally]
... please use irc queue
12:18:04 [mlagally]
qq+
12:18:09 [mlagally]
q-
12:18:31 [mlagally]
... use present+
12:18:50 [mlagally]
... if scribe misses sth. he should interrupt and clarify
12:19:33 [McCool]
q?
12:19:34 [kaz]
q?
12:19:52 [mlagally]
mmc: scribe should watch the queue, interrupting speaker if necessary
12:20:04 [mlagally]
kaz: will help chairs and scribe
12:20:55 [kaz]
present+ Cristiano_Aguzzi
12:20:55 [mlagally]
topic: Deliverable proposals
12:21:08 [kaz]
rrsagent, make log public
12:21:12 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
12:21:12 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/06-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:21:23 [cris]
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12:21:40 [mlagally]
mmc: there are 3 proposals, some were recently updated
12:22:09 [dape]
q+
12:22:15 [mlagally]
... I'll walk through proposals and then check labeled issues in TD
12:22:29 [mlagally]
... today we have an accessibility joint call
12:22:31 [kaz]
i|there are|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot/issues/978 wot issue 978 - Goals and Deliverable Discussion for WoT WG 2023 Proposed Charter|
12:23:07 [mlagally]
... if we do digital twins as a deliverable, do we have to model physical behaviour for a11y?
12:23:15 [kaz]
q?
12:23:19 [kaz]
ack d
12:23:38 [mlagally]
dape: is request for TPAC or pre-meeting?
12:24:37 [mlagally]
mmc: you want to discuss next deliverables, can we scripting down from 45 mins?
12:24:52 [kaz]
i|978|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/main/PRESENTATIONS/2022-09-hybrid-f2f/2022-09-06-WoT-F2F-Proposals-McCool.pdf McCool's slides|
12:25:11 [mlagally]
... we could also discuss post-TPAC
12:25:24 [kaz]
s/3 proposals/3 proposals (Discovery, Onboarding, Profiles)/
12:25:36 [mlagally]
dape: I can try to put sth. together for tomorrow
12:27:35 [mlagally]
mmc: We have 3 proposals in this area
12:27:49 [mlagally]
... obvious ones are TD 2.0 and Architecture 2.0
12:28:02 [mlagally]
... we should write them up in the next 2 weeks
12:28:14 [mlagally]
subtopic: Onboarding
12:28:32 [mlagally]
mmc: to do secure communication we need a identity management process
12:29:25 [mlagally]
... separate deliverable or include into another one, e.g. architecture, discovery or a separate security spec
12:29:30 [McCool]
q?
12:29:30 [cris]
q+
12:30:31 [kaz]
ml: any estimate on how complex?
12:30:37 [kaz]
... separate spec needed or not
12:30:48 [kaz]
mm: rather a lifecycle question
12:30:59 [citrullin_]
Couldn't we refer to it in discovery and then have the details in another document?
12:31:54 [citrullin_]
q+ Couldn't we refer to it in discovery and then have the details in another document? (can't talk, right now)
12:32:06 [kaz]
mm: (mentions security portions)
12:32:20 [kaz]
ml: we should answer two questions, I think
12:32:28 [kaz]
... which TF to work on it?
12:32:55 [kaz]
mm: difficult to find people having security expertise
12:33:15 [citrullin_]
+1 on having it in the task force
12:33:23 [kaz]
... my preference here is including normative security document and onboarding document
12:33:25 [citrullin_]
security task force*
12:33:44 [kaz]
ca: agree with having a security tf
12:33:57 [kaz]
... typically lifecycle discussion needed
12:34:09 [mlagally]
cristiano: security TF should be discussing it, this is a lifecycle topic, belongs into architecture
12:34:10 [kaz]
... also for the scripting topic as well
12:34:33 [mlagally]
... also the case for scripting, we define lifecycle APIs, there are some dependencies
12:34:47 [kaz]
i/any estimate/scribenick: kaz/
12:34:55 [kaz]
s/... also for the scripting topic as well//
12:35:05 [kaz]
i/security TF should/scribenick: mlagally/
12:35:08 [mlagally]
mmc: lifecycle has more than security, we can focus the security document on security
12:35:23 [kaz]
q?
12:35:25 [McCool]
q?
12:35:26 [kaz]
ack c
12:35:26 [mlagally]
ca: agree, after that we can talk with relevant TFs
12:35:33 [mlagally]
q?
12:35:46 [kaz]
q+
12:36:14 [mlagally]
kaz: target scope could be kind of broader, lifecycle?
12:36:17 [kaz]
ack k
12:36:39 [kaz]
present+ Ege_Korkan
12:37:10 [mlagally]
mmc: I want to consult with security experts, we have onboarding, TLS, provisioning of keys and management
12:37:38 [mlagally]
... lifecycle is more than just provisioning
12:38:08 [citrullin_]
+1 on having it in the relevant documents and the provisiong in security task force + security documents.
12:38:24 [mlagally]
... details are handled in other documents, architecture has high level requirements
12:38:44 [mlagally]
subtopic: Discovery
12:38:56 [kaz]
s/+1 on having it in the relevant documents and the provisiong in security task force + security documents.//
12:39:09 [kaz]
i/Dscovery/citrullin_: +1 on having it in the relevant documents and the provisiong in security task force + security documents./
12:39:16 [mlagally]
mmc: Important topics are integrity protection, this is one of the motivations for a new discovery spec
12:39:21 [kaz]
q?
12:39:40 [Ege]
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12:39:54 [mlagally]
... we also lack a common query mechanism, JSON Path was not ready yet
12:40:12 [mlagally]
... geolocation is another big topic
12:40:13 [mlagally]
q+
12:40:41 [mlagally]
... JSONPath does not include scripting - we can't call a function
12:40:56 [kaz]
q?
12:40:59 [mlagally]
... arbitrary filters could be added
12:41:42 [kaz]
ml: question about geolocation
12:41:44 [citrullin_]
q-
12:41:52 [kaz]
... a bit concerned
12:42:12 [kaz]
... in the past, we had some initial proposal
12:42:26 [kaz]
... but we failed to included the detail so far
12:42:36 [kaz]
mm: right
12:42:42 [kaz]
... so there are 2 parts
12:42:43 [cris]
+1
12:43:04 [kaz]
mm: don't think it belongs to the WoT Profile
12:43:16 [kaz]
... need to resolve that, though
12:43:30 [kaz]
... will put together relatively concrete proposal
12:43:40 [kaz]
... to clarify the complicated situation
12:44:19 [Ege]
q+
12:44:21 [kaz]
... there is simply geolocation, e.g., latitude
12:44:50 [kaz]
... simple geolocation like that within TD can be a good starting point
12:44:54 [kaz]
q+
12:44:56 [kaz]
ack ml
12:45:48 [kaz]
mm: handle geolocation separately from the current WoT Profile would be better
12:45:56 [mlagally]
ml: +1
12:46:01 [kaz]
... that would make the current spec move smoother
12:46:22 [kaz]
i/question about/scribenick: kaz
12:46:39 [kaz]
s/ml: +1//
12:46:41 [kaz]
ml: +1
12:46:45 [mlagally]
ege: There are different ways to do it - there's already existing vocabulary, so we did not want to define a new one
12:47:02 [kaz]
i/There are/scribeninick: mlagally/
12:47:18 [mlagally]
... the question of a profile is which to pick
12:47:35 [kaz]
q?
12:47:39 [kaz]
ack e
12:48:06 [mlagally]
mmc: profile uses schema.org
12:48:35 [kaz]
q?
12:49:06 [mlagally]
kaz: for today's discussion and other pre-meeting and post-meeting - what level of details can we cover?
12:49:19 [mlagally]
... or just do a brainstorming?
12:49:36 [mlagally]
mmc: want to get feedback on the concrete proposals
12:49:58 [mlagally]
kaz: for today and tomorrow suggest we do brainstorming
12:50:23 [mlagally]
... we should use an approach with several steps
12:50:37 [mlagally]
... suggest we do brainstorming offline
12:50:56 [cris]
scribe+
12:51:35 [cris]
ml: as we know from the previous conversations there is some overlap work with the current charter Profile work
12:52:04 [cris]
... however there are several other use cases that we should cover in the next work items
12:52:11 [McCool]
q+
12:52:20 [cris]
... like a Cloud Profile
12:52:34 [cris]
... events compatible with a cloud deployment
12:52:47 [cris]
... a profile for constraint devices
12:52:59 [cris]
... or for a specific protocol
12:53:04 [Ege]
q+
12:53:05 [citrullin_]
+1 on constrained devices and CoAP :)
12:53:06 [kaz]
ack k
12:53:23 [cris]
... we may support other profiles provided that there is interest
12:53:53 [cris]
mc: it would be nice to have a short description next to the new proposed profiles.
12:54:38 [kaz]
ack mc
12:54:49 [cris]
ml: behavior description is interesting but it is something for TD 2.0
12:54:57 [cris]
mc: right
12:55:01 [kaz]
q+
12:55:42 [McCool]
q+
12:55:46 [kaz]
ack e
12:55:46 [cris]
ege: I advice to go directly for 2.0 version for the next profile spec (no backward compatibility)
12:56:08 [mlagally]
q+
12:56:13 [mlagally]
q++
12:56:18 [mlagally]
qq+
12:56:33 [cris]
... regarding on the proposed profiles
12:56:42 [cris]
... I don't know we have the bandwidth
12:56:58 [kaz]
ack ml
12:57:03 [kaz]
q- +
12:57:04 [kaz]
ls
12:57:07 [kaz]
s/ls//
12:57:29 [cris]
ml: regarding the backwards compatibility I not completely agree. if we break backward compatibility it means that we are not interoperable with ourselves
12:57:34 [cris]
... missing the main goal of profiles
12:57:52 [cris]
... we should watch implementers and decide later
12:58:04 [cris]
ege: later it is a problem
12:58:06 [mlagally]
ack m
12:58:10 [mlagally]
ack m
12:58:10 [Zakim]
mlagally, you wanted to react to Ege
12:58:14 [McCool]
q+
12:58:24 [kaz]
s/not com/don't com/
12:58:25 [cris]
ml: it also depends on TD. If we have TD 2.0 then we have profile 2.0
12:58:50 [cris]
ege: moreover, profiles can have their own versioning number
12:59:09 [cris]
... do you plan to have one single version number or one for each profile
12:59:18 [cris]
mc: I think this is a long discussion
12:59:25 [cris]
... we should talk about it in the issues
13:00:05 [cris]
kaz: I agree about the importance of interoperability, however as today I am not sure that Profiles are the answer.
13:00:21 [mlagally]
q+
13:00:26 [McCool]
ack k
13:00:37 [kaz]
ack k
13:00:42 [Mizushima]
+1 kaz
13:00:46 [cris]
... paraphs we can use implementation guidelines to ensure interoperability.
13:00:57 [cris]
... like HTML5
13:01:07 [kaz]
ack k
13:01:35 [cris]
mc: I agree with kaz, profiles are not clear to what they are applying for
13:01:39 [cris]
... that needs to be resolved
13:02:07 [cris]
... the whole versioning problem of profiles is already warning
13:02:45 [kaz]
ack mc
13:02:50 [cris]
... cause each individual profile might have a new version that might not be compatible with the previous one
13:03:02 [cris]
... I think we should discuss internally in the profile calls
13:03:04 [cris]
ml: I agree
13:03:35 [cris]
topic: Other deliverables
13:03:41 [cris]
subtopic: Thing Description
13:04:00 [cris]
mc: there are some labels referring issues that are moved to the next version
13:04:25 [kaz]
q?
13:04:26 [Ege]
q+
13:04:27 [cris]
... the TD group needs to choose a subset of imporant issues that should be solved in the next charter.
13:04:28 [kaz]
ack ml
13:04:40 [cris]
... there is some action issues that might be migrated to profiles
13:04:50 [kaz]
present+ Janina_Sajka, Matthew_Atkinson
13:05:22 [cris]
... in terms of security my personal take is to move those outside the main spec to be more modular
13:05:37 [Ege]
q-
13:05:38 [cris]
... we don't have time to go through every single issue
13:05:55 [cris]
... we need to get a first draft done during tpac
13:06:01 [cris]
subtopic: Architecture
13:06:12 [cris]
mc: I have found only one issue label next
13:06:23 [cris]
... I assume the labelling process is yet to be done
13:06:33 [cris]
... I think we need probably start the process
13:06:43 [cris]
... and pull up the important ones and create the important one
13:06:52 [cris]
ml: I can review the labels offline
13:06:57 [cris]
... for what I see so far
13:07:21 [matatk]
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13:07:24 [cris]
... the only relevant issues are identities and onboarding.
13:07:33 [kaz]
q?
13:07:50 [cris]
mc: we'll need to update the architecture to reflect changes with TD
13:07:54 [cris]
subtopic: scripting api
13:07:59 [cris]
mc: we have a call tomorrow
13:08:08 [cris]
subtopic: accessibility
13:08:15 [cris]
mc: we have a call right now
13:08:29 [cris]
subtopic: Informative documents
13:08:48 [cris]
mc: probably Use cases will need some updates
13:09:10 [cris]
... also a new normative document for Security
13:09:33 [cris]
ml: do these new Security assertions work with TD 1.1 or 2.0
13:09:39 [kaz]
q?
13:09:40 [kaz]
q+
13:09:47 [mlagally]
q+
13:09:50 [cris]
mc: I think something will impact older specifications
13:10:56 [kaz]
akc k
13:11:03 [cris]
kaz: some suggestions. We talked about new additional technical topics, we should start thinking some offloading and focusing on standardization gaps
13:11:28 [cris]
mc: still there some technical gaps that we need to cover
13:11:46 [kaz]
q?
13:11:47 [cris]
kaz: My smart city session might be the right place to start the collaboration
13:11:49 [kaz]
ack k
13:11:49 [cris]
q?
13:11:52 [McCool]
ack k
13:11:53 [kaz]
ack ml
13:12:37 [cris]
ml: it is true that individual companies are working on proprietary Digitial Twin software.
13:13:08 [cris]
... but their implementations are different from open source solutions
13:13:25 [cris]
q?
13:13:26 [mlagally]
ml: ... these are not SDOs however
13:13:30 [McCool]
q?
13:13:35 [kaz]
kaz: @@@
13:14:04 [cris]
scribe-
13:14:14 [kaz]
s/@@@/right, but I'd suggest we include "de-facto" kind of vendors as well for our liaison targets :)/
13:14:30 [dape]
scribe: dape
13:14:33 [kaz]
s/kaz/scribenick: kaz
13:14:44 [dape]
TOPIC: APA
13:15:04 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
13:15:04 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/06-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:15:24 [janina]
janina has joined #wot
13:15:28 [janina]
present+
13:15:30 [jasonjgw]
jasonjgw has joined #wot
13:15:36 [matatk]
present+
13:16:10 [dape]
scribe: cris
13:17:40 [cris]
janina: I would start from Jason, we have additional feedback about how a today's consumer would like to interact with products
13:18:41 [McCool]
q+
13:18:44 [cris]
jason: I think the question that we arrived was related to the conditions that should be satisfied for WoT devices to be accessibile.
13:19:00 [kaz]
present+ Json_White
13:19:17 [cris]
... through his life cycle (starting from the installation)
13:19:42 [kaz]
q?
13:19:45 [Mizushima_]
Mizushima_ has joined #wot
13:20:27 [cris]
... what we discussed was the need of some kind of integrated approach for devices installed to some user environments
13:20:53 [cris]
... there is no document or requirement analysis
13:21:00 [cris]
... that describe the whole process
13:21:28 [cris]
janina: I will give some examples of bad design choices
13:21:59 [cris]
... Philip hue are very well designed
13:22:10 [cris]
... but there is the hub that needs to configured
13:22:20 [cris]
... google invested a lot in accessibility
13:23:00 [cris]
... I had a nest HVAC that got disconnected and I wasn't able to make it reconnect easily.
13:23:46 [citrullin_]
q+
13:23:56 [kaz]
q+
13:23:57 [cris]
... another example is Amazon light bulp
13:24:03 [kaz]
ack mc
13:24:12 [cris]
... the middleware was not accessible at all
13:24:27 [cris]
mc: we have use case and requirements document
13:24:35 [cris]
... we can your use cases there
13:24:44 [cris]
... it will help use guide the requirements
13:25:01 [cris]
... the funny thing about the thing you mentioned is the physical interface of the device
13:25:11 [cris]
... right now we focused only on the network api
13:25:19 [cris]
... more the digital facing side
13:25:47 [janina]
q?
13:26:10 [cris]
... on digital twins discussion we talk about the ability to describe physical consequences of actions in the device
13:26:13 [cris]
q+
13:26:49 [cris]
... there are various things that we can do for improving user interaction with devices
13:27:01 [cris]
... giving the fact that we can provide textual description in TDs
13:27:09 [cris]
... do we have the right strings?
13:27:18 [cris]
... right now we have title and description
13:27:18 [mlagally]
q+
13:27:34 [cris]
... the title is very clear
13:27:40 [cris]
... the description is vague
13:27:49 [cris]
... is it for developers or users ?
13:27:50 [citrullin_]
Wouldn't it have been even more easily if you can trigger a reboot via some communication protocol? Wireless or wired, doesn't matter. Just some UI button or something. On the phone or web. And for the battery, of course the battery status, plus description, visually and text, how to change it. Wouldn't that be more like a guideline topic? What do consider when designing WoT devices.
13:28:00 [citrullin_]
I can't
13:28:36 [cris]
mc: it is a kind of physical problem
13:28:39 [kaz]
ack cit
13:28:47 [cris]
janina: I found written descriptions
13:29:08 [cris]
... but just fiddling around it I could find it
13:29:09 [kaz]
present+ David_Ezell
13:29:35 [McCool]
qq+
13:29:55 [cris]
mc: we have links that can point to documentation
13:30:04 [McCool]
ack mc
13:30:04 [Zakim]
McCool, you wanted to react to citrullin_
13:30:14 [cris]
kaz: thank you for your feedback
13:30:28 [dezell]
dezell has joined #wot
13:30:30 [cris]
... this is a great opportunity to put accessibility on topic for WoT
13:30:38 [cris]
... I'd like to discuss more in the next charter
13:30:40 [dezell]
present+ David_Ezell
13:30:53 [cris]
... those are just some examples but we should work more on the topic
13:30:58 [citrullin_]
+1 on collecting accessible topics and maybe having a guideline document for it?
13:31:18 [cris]
... how wot can help people to resolve this problem?
13:31:56 [kaz]
ack k
13:32:16 [kaz]
s/to resolve/resolve/
13:32:35 [cris]
jason: many settings that are well represented in the hardware control but not on the network interface
13:33:02 [cris]
... it is also a matter of how well the human interface is represented in network interface
13:33:39 [janina]
q?
13:34:11 [McCool]
ack c
13:34:54 [janina]
q+ to ask about API including reboot
13:35:13 [citrullin_]
+1 for physical feedback etc. A lot to think about.
13:35:42 [McCool]
q?
13:35:48 [McCool]
ack m
13:36:11 [cris]
cris: There is a project working on phisical consequences of interacting with digital devices
13:36:21 [cris]
... we are having a meeting with them in CG
13:36:21 [McCool]
q+
13:36:26 [kaz]
q+
13:36:52 [cris]
... also Solidity has keywords for documentation targeted to devs or to end users
13:37:29 [cris]
janina: we can define dedicated words for different descriptions types
13:38:23 [cris]
... for example we defined a set of terms for different use cases
13:38:45 [citrullin_]
+1 on this. This should all be in the guideline spec.
13:38:47 [kaz]
ack j
13:38:47 [Zakim]
janina, you wanted to ask about API including reboot
13:39:07 [cris]
janina: also defining guidelines can help
13:39:21 [cris]
mc: I agree that we need a dedicated word for developer documentation
13:39:44 [cris]
... another thing is IoT deployment
13:40:06 [cris]
... like the minimal functionality guarded when there is no network
13:40:25 [cris]
... we can attach additional metadata
13:40:32 [kaz]
ack m
13:40:34 [cris]
... but again we should start from use cases
13:40:36 [cris]
kaz: I agree
13:40:36 [McCool]
ack m
13:40:52 [citrullin_]
q+ How about profiles for accessibility?
13:40:54 [cris]
... I suggest to include some additional topics in to the use case tempalte
13:41:08 [McCool]
q+
13:41:18 [kaz]
ack k
13:41:29 [cris]
subtopic: next steps
13:41:38 [citrullin_]
q-
13:41:38 [cris]
mc: we talked about use cases
13:41:42 [kaz]
s/use case/use case and requirement/
13:41:57 [cris]
... start from the repo wot-usecases
13:42:20 [cris]
... we should plan to have a few rounds of ideas
13:42:34 [kaz]
s/tempalte/templates. Probably we need to think about several layers including UI, network, device, etc., as the basic mechanism for the WoT systems as well./
13:42:39 [kaz]
q?
13:42:43 [kaz]
ack m
13:43:04 [mlagally]
https://github.com/w3c/wot-usecases/tree/main/USE-CASES
13:43:19 [McCool]
https://github.com/w3c/wot-usecases
13:44:06 [cris]
ml: start from use-case-template.md
13:44:18 [mlagally]
https://github.com/w3c/wot-usecases/blob/main/USE-CASES/use-case-template.md
13:44:28 [mlagally]
https://github.com/w3c/wot-usecases/blob/main/USE-CASES/use-case-template.html
13:44:42 [cris]
... using .html is fine too but md is more convinient; we can convert it later
13:45:02 [mlagally]
Examples: https://github.com/w3c/wot-usecases/tree/main/USE-CASES/processed
13:45:36 [cris]
mc: use cases are published as note
13:45:52 [cris]
... our current document is an ongoing process
13:45:59 [cris]
... there is some use case that need some more work
13:46:32 [cris]
.... there is a lot todo, we didn't capture voice interfaces
13:46:43 [kaz]
q+
13:46:54 [cris]
... a lot of IoT systems are using Voice assistance
13:47:16 [cris]
... there are some other options like WebThing hub, like home assistant
13:47:36 [cris]
... it is an interesting option I am working of an integration with HomeAssistant.
13:47:59 [cris]
janina: very good
13:48:11 [cris]
mc: a lot of this is about let user use standard
13:48:21 [cris]
... who do we want to invite to the party
13:48:29 [citrullin_]
q+
13:48:42 [cris]
... home IoT is the major use case for accessibility
13:49:33 [cris]
.... even smart things have internet requirement
13:50:04 [cris]
... there is no real way to identify if a device requires a remote network connection
13:50:13 [cris]
janina: true
13:50:36 [cris]
mc: we can't solve every world problem, we should focus
13:50:55 [cris]
... the best bet is to include accessibility improvements to our spec
13:51:00 [cris]
janina: I agree
13:51:09 [kaz]
s/spec/specs/
13:51:16 [citrullin_]
q?
13:51:24 [cris]
mc: we should identify places were we can improve
13:51:35 [McCool]
qq+
13:51:50 [cris]
jason: yes we can do it. we have already a lot of work to do it might take a little while
13:52:01 [cris]
mc: you can even improve existing usecase
13:52:07 [McCool]
ack m
13:52:09 [Zakim]
McCool, you wanted to react to McCool
13:52:14 [cris]
kaz: I agree, with the direction
13:52:19 [McCool]
ack k
13:52:32 [cris]
... I'm organizing a w3c workshop of smart agent
13:52:32 [citrullin_]
In long term, wouldn't it make sense to have Profiles for certain devices that are especially designed for certain accesibility? And regarding companies. There are companies that build devices for this market. Should we reach out to them? Can you maybe provide a list of hardware companies?
13:52:45 [kaz]
ack k
13:52:51 [kaz]
s/I'm/FYI, I'm/
13:52:55 [cris]
mc: aob?
13:53:00 [kaz]
s/of s/on s/
13:53:02 [cris]
janina: no
13:53:21 [kaz]
s/agent/agent, and the topics for that workshop should include "accessibility for IoT purposes" as well :)/
13:53:27 [cris]
jason: not really, we just need to work on use cases starting from the acquisition phase.
13:53:38 [cris]
mc: we have lifecycle on the table
13:54:04 [citrullin_]
In long term, wouldn't it make sense to have Profiles for certain devices that are especially designed for certain accesibility? And regarding companies. There are companies that build devices for this market. Should we reach out to them? Can you maybe provide a list of hardware companies?
13:54:12 [citrullin_]
as text ^
13:54:17 [kaz]
q+
13:54:35 [kaz]
ack cit
13:54:35 [McCool]
ack c
13:54:48 [cris]
janina: maybe, accessibility is not just one market
13:54:53 [cris]
... there is fragmentation
13:55:32 [cris]
... probably there is some market in the aging community
13:55:37 [McCool]
q?
13:56:06 [citrullin_]
fair enough. Thanks
13:56:23 [cris]
kaz: agree, I don't think accessibility should be implemented in a profile
13:56:38 [cris]
... all WoT systems should be accessible
13:56:38 [dezell]
q+
13:56:47 [cris]
... like browsers
13:56:59 [cris]
ml: I agree
13:57:23 [kaz]
ack k
13:57:38 [cris]
... just remember that we don't have a consensus about description and title
13:57:42 [kaz]
s/in a/via specific/
13:57:48 [cris]
david: I loved the conversation
13:57:59 [kaz]
s/like browsers/like browsers nowadays/
13:58:20 [cris]
... we have a company there (connexus) that knows a lot about accessibility and IoT
13:58:27 [cris]
... cutting edge AI system
13:58:38 [cris]
... we are pushing these guys to join w3c
13:59:04 [cris]
topic: wrap up
13:59:13 [cris]
mc: meet again tomorrow
13:59:23 [cris]
... discussion about deliverables
13:59:25 [jasonjgw]
jasonjgw has left #wot
13:59:35 [cris]
... scripting will present next todo items
13:59:43 [kaz]
q?
13:59:46 [kaz]
ack d
13:59:54 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
13:59:54 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/06-wot-minutes.html kaz
14:00:03 [kaz]
[adjourned]
14:00:04 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
14:00:04 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/06-wot-minutes.html kaz
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