11:30:43 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wcag3-supported
11:30:43 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/09/06-wcag3-supported-irc
11:31:03 <Makoto> zakim, start meeting
11:31:03 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
11:31:04 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), Makoto
11:31:47 <Makoto> meeting:Accessibility Supported Subgroup Meeting - Week 8
11:32:16 <Makoto> rrsagent, make logs world
11:33:05 <Makoto> Agenda+ Finalize Pull Request for TPAC
11:33:40 <Makoto> Agenda+ TPAC Schedule
11:34:02 <Makoto> chair:Makoto
11:59:14 <LauraBMiller> LauraBMiller has joined #wcag3-supported
12:01:17 <Makoto> present+
12:01:49 <bruce_bailey> bruce_bailey has joined #wcag3-supported
12:01:57 <bruce_bailey> present+
12:01:57 <LauraBMiller> present+
12:02:08 <bruce_bailey> scribe: bruce_bailey
12:02:51 <AWK> AWK has joined #wcag3-supported
12:02:51 <AWK> +AWK
12:03:52 <bruce_bailey> Item of discussion:  https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XxzwsgWZSDh2EDqTag-nYfrqAT3b6Glpu8DGbVpTd9M/edit#heading=h.heyfrhrm28d2
12:04:01 <Poornima> Poornima has joined #wcag3-supported
12:04:07 <Poornima> present+
12:04:14 <Makoto> zakim, take up next item
12:04:14 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Finalize Pull Request for TPAC -- taken up [from Makoto]
12:04:21 <bruce_bailey> Makoto:  This is scheduled to be our final meeting.
12:04:55 <bruce_bailey> ... we need to finalize Pull Request (PR) to have text for discussion at TPAC next week.
12:05:19 <bruce_bailey> ... has been discussed previously and shared with Chair (no feed back yet)
12:05:39 <bruce_bailey> ... I am not confident that draft is in good condition.
12:05:47 <bruce_bailey> ... Has anyone read?
12:05:53 <bruce_bailey> All:  no
12:06:03 <bruce_bailey> Taking 5 min. to read.
12:06:39 <bruce_bailey> Section 10-2 only.
12:07:19 <Poornima> q+
12:07:41 <Makoto> ack Poornima
12:08:22 <bruce_bailey> Poornima:  Question about option 5 -- keep AS but limit to documented techniques.
12:08:41 <Makoto>  Jon's input. https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2022JulSep/0354.html
12:09:00 <bruce_bailey> Makoto:  That follows from discussion on list.  Comment from Jon Avila (sp)
12:09:41 <LauraBMiller> q+ See my comment in 10-2
12:09:54 <bruce_bailey> s/Avila (sp)/Avila
12:10:45 <LauraBMiller> q+
12:13:11 <bruce_bailey> Poornima:  Another approach would be to be more consistent with providing AS with each wcag3 guideline...
12:13:31 <bruce_bailey> ...that idea was suggest last week, but do not see that here.
12:14:00 <bruce_bailey> Makoto:  Let me see if I can make more distinction between option 3 and 5
12:14:26 <bruce_bailey> ... so option 3 is keep AS but commit to database
12:15:27 <bruce_bailey> ...option 4 is subset of option 3 as only commitment is for approved test files
12:16:14 <AWK> q+
12:16:30 <bruce_bailey> ... option 5 reflects idea from Jon Avila, AS limited to AGWG published methods
12:17:29 <bruce_bailey> ... I have concern with that approach because non-US products, like PC Talker in Japan, would not be Accessibility Support due to lack of documentation.
12:18:22 <bruce_bailey> ... So option 5 might be possible, but will be very diffiult.
12:18:37 <Makoto> ack AWK
12:18:49 <bruce_bailey> Note -- on listserv -- subject line is quote 4th option unquote
12:19:43 <bruce_bailey> AWK:  As I understood listserv comment, there are a bunch of things we don't have to worry about, for example ALT or certain ARIA techniques...
12:20:02 <bruce_bailey> ... they are well understood and not part of AS conversation...
12:20:39 <bruce_bailey> ...risk is for newer technologies, and author created components like a slider.
12:21:27 <bruce_bailey> ... as phrased on listserv, almost seems to be more about undocumented methods.  But I hear we are in agreement about scope.
12:21:49 <bruce_bailey> Makoto:  Also see GreggV comment on list.
12:22:19 <Rachael> +1 to AWK's interpretation
12:22:28 <bruce_bailey> AWK:  As written, seems like AS is only of concern when / where documentation is missing.
12:23:23 <bruce_bailey> AWK:  Someone has to do a ton of work, for example the database, if they want to use technologies which can work.
12:24:06 <bruce_bailey> Makoto:  I think AGWG would be able to document or validate techniques and methods...
12:25:04 <bruce_bailey> ...we need web content authors to check and note how compatible is their source code...
12:25:35 <bruce_bailey> ...but we need AGWG to agree with those methods and techniques ...
12:26:13 <bruce_bailey> ... if AGWG is English, Japanese implementers could translate and follow.
12:26:23 <bruce_bailey> ... I think we are on same page.
12:26:35 <Makoto> ack Laura
12:27:14 <bruce_bailey> LauraBMiller:  I am looking at listing, and I would note that not all pro and con items are of equal weight...
12:27:16 <Rachael> q+ to ask about using a github issue
12:27:54 <bruce_bailey> ... listing them out, makes it look like longer list is determinative...
12:28:17 <bruce_bailey> ... but not all the cons are weighted equally.  Some might be "show stoppers".
12:29:08 <bruce_bailey> Makoto:  I am not sure how I have this written up is correct.
12:30:02 <bruce_bailey> Rachael:  We are still working on subgroup process and feedback, so working on process for TPAC.  I do think it is right direction generally.
12:30:09 <Rachael> q-
12:30:33 <bruce_bailey> .. I would like to have middle written up as GitHub issue.  The top and bottom I am not sure.
12:31:07 <bruce_bailey> ... looking for feedback on proposal.
12:31:29 <bruce_bailey> ... or I can create GitHub issue / discussion.
12:32:02 <bruce_bailey> Makoto:  This discussion will be continued, and we can keep the pros / cons for next step phase...
12:32:38 <Makoto> q?
12:32:43 <bruce_bailey> ... timing is right before TPAC.  I would like to follow Rachael suggestions.  Thoughts?
12:32:56 <AWK> +1
12:33:20 <bruce_bailey> All concur, no dissent
12:34:10 <bruce_bailey> Makoto:  Looking for feedback, I raised six questions.  Do we need all?  Did I miss one?
12:34:36 <bruce_bailey> q+
12:34:45 <bruce_bailey> LauraBMiller:  What is the next step?
12:35:21 <bruce_bailey> Makoto:  We are looking for something to go in next public draft of WCAG3.
12:35:52 <LauraBMiller> q+
12:36:25 <bruce_bailey> q-
12:36:39 <bruce_bailey> Bruce:  Are these question for TPAC or WCAG3 ?
12:37:00 <bruce_bailey> Makoto:  These would be questions to the audience of WCAG3.
12:37:45 <bruce_bailey> Bruce:  Also 5/6 questions are about collecting AS data -- but first week we raised idea of dropping AS in wcag3
12:38:41 <bruce_bailey> AWK:  Having these questions in PWD implies that AS is staying and that AGWG is asking about means to solicit funding.
12:39:04 <bruce_bailey> Bruce:  +1 to AWK
12:39:14 <bruce_bailey> q+
12:39:36 <bruce_bailey> AWK:  I had not thought what the result of our work was going to be.
12:39:53 <Makoto> ack Laura
12:40:05 <bruce_bailey> LauraBMiller:  I agree that the first question should be if we support AS or not.
12:40:30 <bruce_bailey> ... pros and cons need more context
12:40:58 <bruce_bailey> ... Are we helping people to decide, or moving past that?
12:41:17 <Makoto> ack bruce
12:41:31 <Rachael> q+
12:41:35 <Poornima> +1 on the decision to be made first
12:41:42 <Makoto> ack rachael
12:41:56 <bruce_bailey> Bruce:  agree w/ Laura that we need to discuss AS or not more
12:42:26 <bruce_bailey> Rachael:  Recall that we have Exploratory content now, so what we have now fits that model...
12:42:45 <bruce_bailey> ... idea is to capture outstanding questions before move to Developing.
12:43:10 <bruce_bailey> Bruce:  I think questions/issues for TPAC different than Qs to public in PWD
12:43:34 <bruce_bailey> Rachael:  Context is editors draft, not PWD
12:44:04 <bruce_bailey> Makoto:  I think we have quite a bit captured here, including the conversation with Wildco...
12:44:05 <Poornima> q+
12:44:18 <Makoto> ack poornima
12:44:30 <bruce_bailey> ... So maybe a little bit different with what we are writing up from our conversations.
12:45:15 <bruce_bailey> Poornima:  We have options to bring forward to larger group meetings...
12:45:31 <bruce_bailey> ... we have the known issues and several options.
12:46:23 <bruce_bailey> Makoto:  I wanted to ask AWK about need to develop global database.
12:47:11 <bruce_bailey> AWK:  My comment was on keep AS as-is and there is assertion that to do that, we need global DB...
12:47:37 <bruce_bailey> ... but that is not correct since we do not have that now.  The global DB is more about option 3
12:48:04 <bruce_bailey> Makoto:  Okay, thanks, I understand.
12:49:01 <bruce_bailey> Poornima:  Again, my suggestion that wcag3 pay more attention and focus to AS with each Guideline is not included here, and I would like to see that as an option.
12:50:00 <bruce_bailey> Makoto:  I am not clear on suggestion to call out AS as 6th option.
12:51:08 <AWK> Poornima - call out the AT support in the normative WCAG content?
12:51:14 <bruce_bailey> q+
12:51:38 <bruce_bailey> Poornima:  We need to promote AS as a core issue.
12:51:59 <bruce_bailey> Makoto:  Information to product developers?
12:52:36 <bruce_bailey> Poornima: No, I am talking about prose in Guidelines.  Example is ALT, why is needed and how AT provides AS for ALT.
12:53:16 <bruce_bailey> Bruce:  I typed in an option 6
12:53:20 <bruce_bailey> q-
12:54:21 <bruce_bailey> Makoto:  For TPAC, I will keep six options for presentation at TPAC...
12:54:54 <bruce_bailey> ... We will keep pros / cons in this doc for hopefully being of use to next iteration.
12:55:19 <Makoto> zakim, take up next item
12:55:19 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- TPAC Schedule -- taken up [from Makoto]
12:55:21 <bruce_bailey> ... Feed back on known issues can inform TPAC discussion.
12:56:09 <bruce_bailey> ... And we have Rachael creating GitHub issue/discussion and moving middle section to exploratory.
12:56:40 <bruce_bailey> Makoto:  At TPAC I am presenting for 90 minutes, including some discussion.  I will be remote only though.  Anyone there in person?
12:57:37 <bruce_bailey> AWK:  I will be there in person.
12:57:47 <bruce_bailey> LauraBMiller: remote only
12:57:56 <bruce_bailey> Poornima: remote only
12:58:08 <bruce_bailey> Bruce:  I am not attending TPAC.
12:58:16 <Makoto> TPAC https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Meetings/TPAC_2022#AG_WG_Meeting_at_TPAC_2022
12:59:18 <bruce_bailey> rrsagent, make minutes
12:59:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/06-wcag3-supported-minutes.html bruce_bailey
12:59:52 <bruce_bailey> Makoto:  Please review bottom of document, section 10 which is my notes for TPAC.
13:00:11 <bruce_bailey> Makoto thanks everyone for their hard work.
13:00:30 <Rachael> Thank you all for your work on this.
13:01:59 <bruce_bailey> zakim, end meeting
13:01:59 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Makoto, bruce_bailey, LauraBMiller, AWK, Poornima
13:02:02 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
13:02:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/06-wcag3-supported-minutes.html Zakim
13:02:05 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, bruce_bailey; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
13:02:09 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wcag3-supported
13:42:08 <Makoto> s/Wildco.../Wilco last week
13:42:28 <Makoto> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
13:42:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/09/06-wcag3-supported-minutes.html Makoto
15:49:09 <Makoto> rrsagent, please part
15:49:09 <RRSAgent> I see no action items