17:00:59 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria
17:00:59 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/08/25-aria-irc
17:01:01 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
17:01:03 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), jamesn
17:01:07 <StefanS> present+
17:01:10 <jamesn> meeting: ARIA WG
17:01:12 <spectranaut> present+
17:01:16 <jamesn> agendabot, find agenda
17:01:16 <agendabot> jamesn, OK. This may take a minute...
17:01:16 <agendabot> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/2b92a902-1365-4ea0-8c68-9f8ae2106fe3/20220825T130000
17:01:16 <agendabot> clear agenda
17:01:16 <agendabot> agenda+  -> New Issue Triage https://bit.ly/3AJQjP2
17:01:17 <agendabot> agenda+  -> New PR Triage https://bit.ly/3pF52Er
17:01:19 <agendabot> agenda+  -> Deep Dive planning https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates
17:01:22 <agendabot> agenda+  -> TPAC Topics https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/wiki/Meetings/TPAC_2022
17:01:25 <agendabot> agenda+ Where are we on  -> Support aria-description https://github.com/w3c/accname/pull/69
17:01:28 <agendabot> agenda+ Where are we on  -> Initial aria-textseparation (depends on generic PR being merged) https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/996
17:01:31 <agendabot> agenda+  -> Open PR Triage https://github.com/w3c/aria/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aopen+sort%3Acreated-asc
17:01:49 <scotto> scotto has joined #aria
17:01:57 <dakahn> dakahn has joined #aria
17:02:03 <chlane> scribe: chlane
17:02:07 <pkra> present_+
17:02:10 <pkra> present+
17:02:17 <scotto> present+
17:02:27 <chlane> Zakim, next agendum
17:02:27 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- -> New Issue Triage https://bit.ly/3AJQjP2 -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:02:29 <jamesn> present+
17:02:36 <dakahn> present+
17:03:06 <chlane> accname #166
17:03:08 <Github> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/166 : ARIA: should there be a password role?
17:03:19 <chlane> spectranaut: can close
17:03:24 <chlane> jamesn: closing
17:03:37 <chlane> jcraig: might be dupe
17:03:52 <chlane> jcraig: pr#69 covers it
17:03:55 <Adam_Page> present+
17:04:13 <chlane> #1782
17:04:14 <Github> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1782 : Support the lang attribute on aria-labelledby/aria-describedby target IDs
17:04:20 <chlane> jamesn: duplicate
17:04:36 <chlane> jamesn: someone that understands a11y apis do this
17:04:44 <chlane> spectranaut: will do it
17:04:53 <chlane> jamesn: any object can only have a single language
17:05:03 <chlane> in most apis
17:05:22 <chlane> jcraig: referenced element lang is an edge case
17:05:31 <chlane> breaking up audio
17:05:51 <chlane> jamesn: seems unresolvable
17:06:00 <chlane> Zakim, next agendum
17:06:00 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- -> New PR Triage https://bit.ly/3pF52Er -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:06:17 <MarkMcCarthy> MarkMcCarthy has joined #aria
17:06:19 <MarkMcCarthy> present+
17:07:21 <chlane> StefanS: can both languages be used?
17:07:30 <chlane> jamesn: confirm or deny
17:07:52 <chlane> jcraig: it works where we made it work
17:08:24 <sarah_h> sarah_h has joined #aria
17:09:41 <chlane> 1780 DA spectranaut assigned
17:10:10 <chlane> #1788 has reviewers, scotto some were volunteered
17:10:29 <chlane> s/1788/1778/
17:10:40 <chlane> core aam #135
17:10:43 <Github> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/135 : SVG-AAM: Mesh is missing from the mapping table
17:10:49 <chlane> jamesc has it
17:11:05 <chlane> @jamesc #1778
17:11:07 <Github> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1778 : Resolving user agent must not statement and whitespace defs
17:11:34 <spectranaut> jcraig: ^
17:11:34 <chlane> @jcraig #1778
17:11:36 <Github> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1778 : Resolving user agent must not statement and whitespace defs
17:11:41 <chlane> Zakim, next agendum
17:11:41 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- -> Deep Dive planning https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:12:01 <chlane> next installment of popups
17:12:06 <chlane> scotto: sure
17:12:42 <chlane> scotto: questions from aarons doc in a discussions thread
17:12:59 <jamesn> https://github.com/w3c/aria/discussions/1781
17:12:59 <chlane> #1781 popups and a11y
17:13:07 <spectranaut> btw, from the previous topic, jcraig here is the other PR to review: https://github.com/w3c/core-aam/pull/135
17:13:21 <chlane> spectranaut: thanks
17:13:45 <chlane> look at #1781
17:13:56 <chlane> jamesn: last DD before TPAC
17:14:07 <chlane> Zakim, next agendum
17:14:07 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- -> TPAC Topics https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/wiki/Meetings/TPAC_2022 -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:14:37 <chlane> jamesn: current topics were already in flagged issues
17:14:59 <chlane> now is the time to add new topics ...
17:15:16 <chlane> APA 9/13 and 9/15
17:15:34 <chlane> jcraig: PRs to finish before TPAC
17:15:43 <chlane> DPUB ARIA,
17:15:56 <chlane> back and forth in issue thread is unclear
17:16:32 <chlane> jcraig: plans to finish next week, gihub comments
17:16:56 <chlane> jamesn: not too late to register
17:17:14 <chlane> there is a fee waiver
17:17:33 <chlane> if your company is paying we prefer to not use it
17:17:41 <chlane> to pay for the conference
17:17:50 <chlane> yourself get the waiver instead
17:18:23 <chlane> Zakim, next agendum
17:18:23 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Where are we on  -> Support aria-description https://github.com/w3c/accname/pull/69 -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:19:30 <chlane> jamesn: where are we on accname #69?
17:19:30 <Github> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/69 : Make graphics.html HTML5?
17:19:41 <chlane> scotto: almost finished
17:20:12 <chlane> scotto: next week will submit a PR to html-aam
17:21:03 <chlane> jamesn: looking into github bot
17:21:09 <chlane> doing wrong things
17:21:20 <chlane> MichaelC: will see
17:21:33 <MarkMcCarthy> s/looking into github bot/looking into 'Github' bot (not github-bot)
17:21:41 <MichaelC> Github, please part
17:21:57 <chlane> MichaelC: not a bot I know of
17:22:13 <chlane> could be a random persons bot
17:22:26 <chlane> MichaelC: need operator status
17:22:39 <chlane> MichaelC: they didn't like the past way will follow up
17:22:53 <chlane> github bot and operator status
17:22:57 <chlane> priveleges too low
17:23:07 <chlane> Zakim, next agendum
17:23:07 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- Where are we on  -> Initial aria-textseparation (depends on generic PR being merged) https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/996 -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:23:27 <chlane> jamesn: pinging Matt
17:23:43 <chlane> Zakim, next agendum
17:23:43 <Zakim> agendum 6 was just opened, chlane
17:23:56 <chlane>  Zakim, close this item
17:23:56 <Zakim> agendum 6 closed
17:23:57 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
17:23:57 <Zakim> 7. -> Open PR Triage https://github.com/w3c/aria/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aopen+sort%3Acreated-asc [from agendabot]
17:23:59 <chlane> Zakim, next agendum
17:23:59 <Zakim> agendum 7 -- -> Open PR Triage https://github.com/w3c/aria/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aopen+sort%3Acreated-asc -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:24:26 <jamesn> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aopen+sort%3Acreated-desc
17:24:36 <pkra> or https://github.com/w3c/aria/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aopen+sort%3Aupdated-desc
17:24:38 <chlane> jamesn: changing to standard ordering
17:24:51 <chlane> #1780 needs reviews
17:24:51 <Github> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1780 : Add explicit value calculations for textbox and searchbox role
17:25:03 <chlane> #1766
17:25:04 <Github> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1766 : add [CEReactions] to IDL.
17:25:26 <chlane> jamesn: fixed xref html yesterday should be ready a soon as we get someone else to look at it
17:26:01 <chlane> spectranaut: can talk to Alex but they are on vacation
17:26:26 <chlane> jamesn: do custom elements make a difference to our spec?
17:26:41 <chlane> jamesn: I believe it is not a problem
17:27:14 <chlane> jamesn: #996 that Matt took on in march
17:27:14 <Github> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/996 : Initial aria-textseparation (depends on generic PR being merged)
17:28:37 <chlane> matt king, the dialog popover stuff has been my focus
17:28:50 <chlane> until I feel better about those I'm not going to work on this
17:29:09 <chlane> we can see whether anything changes between now and TPac
17:29:23 <chlane> any reason to push hard to make it a 1.3 thing?
17:29:38 <chlane> let it slide, small consequences?
17:29:47 <chlane> jamesn: face to face discussion
17:29:53 <chlane> scotto: we also have other
17:29:56 <chlane> PRs
17:30:02 <chlane> to get around this
17:30:12 <chlane> generic, block level
17:30:13 <chlane> inline
17:30:21 <chlane> everything is generic
17:30:28 <chlane> CSS rendering decides it
17:30:37 <chlane> jamesn: is it being rendered by CSS?
17:30:44 <chlane> jamesn:  ovveride?
17:30:51 <Jem> Jem has joined #aria
17:30:54 <chlane> render inline to render a word
17:31:06 <chlane> matt, recommended to change divs to spans
17:31:22 <chlane> matt could have also used textseparation
17:31:28 <Jem> present+
17:31:32 <chlane> CSS is the root of the problem
17:32:08 <chlane> creepy voice on jamesns computer
17:32:11 <chlane> lol
17:32:29 <chlane> pkra: as the children
17:32:37 <chlane> s/as/ask/
17:32:41 <chlane> lol
17:34:11 <Matt_King> Matt_King has joined #aria
17:34:16 <chlane> #1754
17:34:17 <Github> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1754 : Reword use 'on a page' instead of 'within any document or application'
17:34:21 <chlane> ready to merge
17:34:32 <chlane> pkra: will take care of it
17:34:37 <chlane> #1762
17:34:38 <Github> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1762 : editorial changes for translatable attrs
17:34:41 <chlane> jamesn: fixed links
17:34:45 <chlane> scotto: looks good
17:34:57 <chlane> #1778
17:34:58 <Github> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1778 : Resolving user agent must not statement and whitespace defs
17:35:03 <Jem> agenda?
17:35:07 <chlane> talked about it
17:35:13 <chlane> #1454
17:35:14 <Github> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1454 : Update required owned elements and required context role
17:35:24 <chlane> jamesn: not ready
17:35:34 <chlane> #1494
17:35:35 <Github> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1494 : Prohibit presentation / none on where it causes conflict resolution
17:35:50 <chlane> scotto: james and I
17:35:57 <chlane> are on it
17:36:05 <chlane> #1733
17:36:06 <Github> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1733 : Tidying up section "Characteristics of Roles"
17:36:16 <chlane> pkra: needs to update
17:36:21 <chlane> #1738
17:36:22 <Github> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1738 : Using suffix Element/s for IDL attributes referring to elements
17:36:29 <chlane> jamesn: on me still
17:36:47 <chlane> suffix elements for idl
17:36:55 <chlane> #1660
17:36:56 <Github> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1660 : remove overly prescriptive distinctions from aria-current values.
17:37:25 <chlane> jamesn: might be ready?
17:37:39 <chlane> jamesn: ok
17:38:03 <chlane> scotto, sarah and jamesn have reviewed
17:38:18 <chlane> jamesn: any disagreements to merge?
17:38:22 <spectranaut> pkra, can you merge?
17:38:28 <chlane> group says merge
17:38:35 <chlane> #1695
17:38:36 <Github> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1695 : change changelog to rs-changelog
17:38:41 <chlane> pkra: for micheal
17:38:46 <chlane> #1734
17:38:47 <Github> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1734 : Further updates to caption role definition
17:39:13 <chlane> jamesn: reviewed by sarah and DA
17:39:27 <chlane> chlane: reviewing #1734
17:39:28 <Github> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1734 : Further updates to caption role definition
17:39:33 <chlane> #1744
17:39:33 <Github> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1744 : turn off optional checks for ed drafts
17:39:45 <chlane> #1740
17:39:46 <Github> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1740 : associationlist and related roles have tediously long names
17:39:54 <chlane> tediously long names
17:40:10 <chlane> scotto: simplifying to list values? spectranaut this is a draft PR
17:40:20 <chlane> #1162
17:40:20 <Github> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1162 : Clarify the intent of "required owned elements"
17:40:27 <chlane> clarify intent of required owned elements
17:40:32 <chlane> matt seems like a dupe
17:40:43 <chlane> pkra: covered by sarah
17:41:32 <chlane> #1033 Clarify required owned element
17:41:33 <Github> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1033 : Clarify "required owned element"
17:42:06 <chlane> the PR is #1454
17:42:07 <Github> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1454 : Update required owned elements and required context role
17:42:26 <chlane> #1127
17:42:27 <Github> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1127 : Clean up use of "may"
17:42:32 <chlane> clean up use of 'may'
17:42:39 <chlane> jamesn: do we care?
17:42:54 <chlane> reassing to rfc 2119
17:43:09 <chlane> jamesn: only an rfc keyword if it is uppercase
17:43:30 <chlane> matt respec was automatically capitalizing
17:43:44 <chlane> strings like 'SHOULD'
17:44:07 <chlane> jamesn: we do this in our stuff
17:44:28 <chlane> jamesn: 'may' if its uppercase otherwise its not
17:44:51 <chlane> matt, you must type in in uppercase in the source to be normative
17:45:27 <chlane> spectranaut: who are the editors?
17:45:33 <chlane> jcraig: don't care
17:45:45 <chlane> I DON'T CARE
17:45:58 <chlane> close in uppercase lol
17:46:11 <chlane> spectranaut: he has a point
17:46:25 <chlane> matt from an editorial standpoint, be careful
17:46:40 <chlane> not using the word 'should' unless normative
17:46:50 <chlane> matt must, may and should
17:46:55 <chlane> is confusing
17:46:59 <chlane> jamesn: why?
17:47:13 <chlane> Matt_King: in the spec we should be careful
17:47:25 <chlane> Matt_King: not for merging this PR
17:47:43 <chlane> Matt_King: we should not make this problem more prevelant
17:47:55 <chlane> spectranaut: what is it like to read with SR?
17:48:08 <chlane> Matt_King: will sometimes look for uppercase
17:48:32 <chlane> pkra: can we punt it back to fix merge conflict?
17:48:39 <chlane> spectranaut: assign to me
17:48:51 <chlane> jamesn: look for new things that have been added
17:49:03 <chlane> jamesn: hard to merge
17:49:23 <chlane> spectranaut: this process of mult branches needs to be resolved
17:49:37 <chlane> spectranaut: hard to understand normative and not
17:50:03 <chlane> #1048
17:50:04 <Github> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1048 : Description at aria-relevant incomprehensible and wrong
17:50:31 <chlane> pkra: didn't make it into 1.2
17:50:48 <chlane> jamesn: it's trivial
17:50:57 <chlane> why haven't we merged?
17:51:06 <chlane> 5 words
17:51:38 <chlane> #1019
17:51:38 <Github> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1019 : Accessible name from caption
17:51:50 <chlane> jamesn: should we close is this overcome by events?
17:52:09 <chlane> scotto: I thinks so, sounds like we punted it not a bad idea
17:52:24 <chlane> #1018
17:52:24 <Github> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1018 : Issue899 accname from heading
17:52:30 <chlane> scotto: same sort of thing
17:52:50 <chlane> jamesn: jcraig suggested naming mechanism for articles
17:53:27 <chlane> Matt_King: we struggled to figure how to make a predictable algo that would be useful
17:53:37 <chlane> jcraig: we got a user report about this
17:53:53 <chlane> jcraig: trying to be flexible in wording
17:54:11 <chlane> jamesn: flexibility is .. a strong suggestion for the right thing to choose
17:54:24 <chlane> jcraig: add myself to reviewers
17:54:33 <chlane> jamesn: no label use first heading
17:54:52 <chlane> scotto: just use first heading
17:55:04 <chlane> jamesn: accessible name from heading
17:55:25 <chlane> scotto: restart
17:55:30 <chlane> not the PR to merge
17:55:41 <chlane> jamesn: issue deserves more consideration
17:56:04 <chlane> pkra: like original suggestion
17:56:09 <chlane> put in a 'may'
17:56:16 <chlane> let them do something
17:56:28 <chlane> jcraig: maching learning is getting better then what we can spec
17:56:39 <chlane> jamesn: isn't it better if the author knows
17:56:47 <chlane> Matt_King: that path is complicated
17:57:18 <chlane> jamesn: certain roles, no a11y name use first header
17:57:28 <chlane> in resolving errors section
17:57:49 <chlane> jamesn: TPAC Topic
17:57:56 <chlane> Matt_King: lets do it again
17:58:20 <jamesn> https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/wiki/Meetings/TPAC_2022#Topics_to_Schedule
17:58:30 <chlane> rrsagent, make minutes
17:58:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/08/25-aria-minutes.html chlane
18:02:17 <bkardell_> bkardell_ has joined #aria