20:57:29 RRSAgent has joined #mediawg 20:57:29 logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/08/16-mediawg-irc 20:57:33 Zakim has joined #mediawg 21:01:57 ericc has joined #mediawg 21:02:04 jernoble has joined #mediawg 21:07:44 tidoust has joined #mediawg 21:08:19 tidoust has joined #mediawg 21:09:43 gregf has joined #mediawg 22:06:32 tidoust_ has joined #mediawg 22:07:12 Meeting: Media WG call 22:07:24 RRSAgent, make logs public 22:07:33 Chair: Chris, Jer 22:07:37 present+ Chris_Needham, Francois_Daoust, Jer_Noble, Eric_Carlson, Bernard_Aboba, Greg_Freedman, Alastor_Wu, Gary_Katsevman 22:08:01 Topic: TPAC 2022 schedule - Joint Media WG / WebRTC WG / Media & Entertainment IG meeting 22:08:03 scribe: tidoust 22:08:14 Chris: Thanks Bernard for preparing up the Media WG / WebRTC WG. A number of WebCodecs/WebTransport/WebRTC issues to go through. More specific ones on WebCodecs for which I'm waiting for feedback from WebCodecs editors on which they are ready to cover. 22:08:14 ... Then one Media Capabilities issue that impacts WebRTC. 22:08:14 ... Anything else that we should cover in that joint meeting? 22:08:14 Bernard: Some of the Encoded transform issues (e.g. #121) are not really linked to Encoded transform in practice. 22:08:15 ... The two major things that we discussed in WebRTC are capabilities and relationship between WebCodecs and Encoded transforms. 22:08:18 Chris: We had a call earlier today looking at media sessions in relation with media capture. I was thinking of covering that in the Media WG meeting. A new meeting popped up on Thursday for a new media CG that recently got created. I'm trying to setup the schedule so that we have enough breaks in the day. 22:08:22 ... Anything from the Media WG perspective related to WebRTC? 22:08:24 Bernard: Also related to the Media & Entertainment IG. 22:08:26 Jer: One thing around the detection of audio spatialisation. We added a bunch of stuff for HDR in Media Capabilities but sort of punted for audio. We may want to have a discussion with Media & Entertainment IG participants if they want to see something specific around that. This might be something that we asked them to take to the Web Audio Working Group, but since it's TPAC we can probably ask people who are around. 22:08:33 Chris: Let's do all Media Capabilities all in one place. Only other thing from the IG is related to the DASH-IF activity on requirements for WebRTC and DASH streaming. I'm trying to assess whether there is something that needs to be discussed. I don't think that the IG has anything else that it wants to raise. 22:08:37 Topic: TPAC 2022 schedule - Media WG meeting 22:08:39 Subtopic: MSE 22:08:41 Chris: [showing current draft schedule in Google Docs] 22:08:43 ... Looking for feedback from editors. Matt is willing to get feedback from media player developers on MSE features. If we plan an MSE-specific slot, is there anything that you also would like to add to the discussions. 22:08:46 Jer: There are a bunch of MSE features that Apple is interested in, in particular related to memory management, e.g. purging buffers in low-memory conditions. Hasn't made it to the spec yet. That would be a good topic for discussion. We've had feedback from people on MSE on when memory conditions would change when you switch between resolutions. I think Will Law had feedback. Some of the issues came up in FOMS a few years ago. Now could be a good time 22:08:51 to revisit these issues. 22:08:53 Chris: I got some interest from DASH.js developers. I think that Will will be there in person as well. 22:08:55 Jer: There will also be another FOMS meeting in October where I'm sure media features will be discussed. 22:08:57 Chris: Are there other spec issues that we need to go through in MSE? 22:09:01 Jer: Not that I know of, but Matt would be the right person to answer. 22:09:03 RRSAGent, draft minutes 22:09:03 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/08/16-mediawg-minutes.html tidoust 22:09:33 Subtopic: EME 22:09:33 Chris: I'm wondering about the status of the features and whether the spec reflects features actually implemented. There was a TAG comment on the HDCP Policy Check feature. 22:09:33 Greg: It's implemented in Chrome but not in Safari. I don't know what to do with the spec 22:09:34 Jer: The TAG's comment notes that the feature is also implemented in Firefox. If that's true, then I think this can go in the spec. It's ok if Apple does not implement it. Happy to have a discussion on privacy concerns at TPAC but that should not block the feature if there are two implementations already. 22:09:36 Chris: What about the Encryption scheme capability detection? 22:09:38 Greg: I think it's done and implemented. 22:09:40 Chris: OK, it may be that there is nothing to be done. 22:09:42 Greg: I'm not sure that the right people will be there to discuss EME at TPAC. 22:09:44 Chris: My concern is that we re-chartered with EME in scope so should be making progress on EME somehow before next re-chartering period next year. 22:09:47 Greg: OK, let's restrict the session to 30mn and stick to the list you have here. 22:09:49 Subtopic: WebCodecs 22:09:51 Chris: The second part is more tentative from my perspective. 22:09:53 ... WebCodecs in general is progressing quietly. Editors are discussing in calls. If we cover WebCodecs, it may just be a status update with any particular request where there is input needed. I haven't had any input on specific issues that we would want to cover. I had a thought on whether HDR would be worth covering but that's more a discussion to be had with HDR experts in the other group. I wasn't getting from WebCodecs people that they wanted to 22:09:58 cover many things on WebCodecs. 22:10:20 Subtopic: Media Session 22:10:20 Chris: We had a call earlier today where we made some progress on the capture handle actions. We'll want to report on that. 22:10:20 ... There are a few issues that may be worth having face-to-face discussion about. Bigger question on Media Session and Web Audio, as well as the Audio Focus API although Chrome indicated they are not actively pursuing this for the moment. 22:10:21 Eric: I think it would be good to have a discussion on audio focus though. 22:10:22 Jer: Platforms like Android and iOS have complicated audio playback rules that the Web does not really handle well. The ability for generated audio to duck other audio rather than interrupt is not possible for the time being for instance. 22:10:26 ... Whether audio is going through the headset speaker or inbuilt speaker. Etc. 22:10:28 Chris: OK, then a good one to include. I will extent the Media Session slot from 30mn to one hour then. 22:10:34 Subtopic: Autoplay policy detection 22:10:36 Chris: We published the first draft of the autoplay policy detection spec. Is there anything to discuss in the meeting? 22:10:38 Alastor: I think most issues don't need to take time in a face-to-face meeting. I will review them again. 22:10:40 Chris: OK. Happy to make time if there are things that you'd like to cover. 22:10:42 Francois: Note the open issue on actually changing the autoplay permission. Currently out of scope for the Media WG, but we may want to document rationale, reply, and/or discuss again. 22:10:45 Chris: Right, some related needs in my organization indeed. 22:10:47 Jer: Just wanted to rant that the web is missing a playlist API. 22:10:49 Subtopic: Picture-in-Picture 22:10:51 Chris: Some open issues. Francois is the main editor. I don't know whether Francois will be there personally or able to attend remotely. 22:10:54 Jer: Some of them are editorial. It's going to be hard to define autoPictureInPictureEnabled as implementations are going to be different. The accessibility issue is interesting. 22:10:57 Chris: Also could be interesting to have a presentation on the document Picture-in-Picture proposal. I'm following up with Tommy who's handling that, and reserving a bit of time for it. 22:11:10 Subtopic: DataCue API 22:11:10 Chris: Final one is the DataCue API, where things have been quiet. Looking for feedback on the proposal and intent to implement. Webkit has this already and the API proposal has no suggested changes. 22:11:10 ... But there's a question of which in-band media events would be surfaced. What would be the timed events processing model? Is there interest to look at this from an MSE perspective? 22:11:11 ... Recently, we had a discussion with ByteDance who shared interest in surface H.264 SEI metadata events. Again question on whether there is broader interest in features like that, and getting feedback in next steps. 22:11:13 ... If there's little interest, it may be that we shelve the work. 22:11:44 Subtopic: Sorting agenda items 22:11:44 Chris: Is that too much for the agenda? It may be that we need to drop some of the topics, and rather discuss them in further meetings anyway. I'm happy to update the agenda based on your own priorities. 22:11:44 Eric: Question is what goes last? Because whatever goes last may get dumped. 22:11:45 ... 30mn for DataCue is probably more than it needs. 22:11:45 Chris: I agree. We can combine some of the topic/s in an 30mn slot and move it last. 22:11:46 ... Unknown for me is whether Chromium people will be present for Media Session. 22:11:48 ... Thank you for the feedback on the agenda. This is helpful. 22:11:50 ... Is this too long for people who plan to attend remotely? 22:11:51 Bernard: I'll be remote. You're planning the right duration for break. Similar agenda in WebRTC WG. 22:11:54 Alastor: Is the Google Doc public? 22:11:56 Chris: Yes, I just shared it with editors. Anything else? 22:11:58 Bernard: One topic that is coming up again: integration of machine learning with encode and decode. Example: picture segmentation. 22:12:03 ... It is challenging because there is pre-processing and post-processing but some of these things have to be integrated with the encoder. 22:12:06 ... Some suggestion to add metadata with video frames, e.g. for face detection. 22:12:08 ... I'm not sure how to add that to the WebRTC joint meeting, but it is something that is coming up. 22:12:09 Chris: The metadata would be used in the app itself, right? 22:12:11 Bernard: Yes, one example would be if you want to implement your own blurring mechanism. One question is whether metadata could be carried out of band, but it is easier in-band for transport. 22:12:14 ... It's not free to add metadata in there, because it requires extra memory for instance. 22:12:16 Chris: I'm wondering what to do with this. Where could it fit in the agenda and who needs to be around? Thinking about Intel folks for instance. 22:12:19 Bernard: Yes. We can probably file/find an issue for agenda consideration. 22:12:21 Chris: If we keep the Media WG / WebRTC WG joint meeting to 2h, we can probably add it to the agenda. Just wondering whether Riju can join the meeting. 22:12:24 ... OK, next step for me is to update the GitHub issue to align it better with what we discussed, and confirm with would-be participants. 22:12:27 RRSagent, draft minutes 22:12:27 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/08/16-mediawg-minutes.html tidoust 22:13:15 RRSAgent, bye 22:13:15 I see no action items