11:43:49 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wcag3-supported
11:43:49 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/08/09-wcag3-supported-irc
11:44:10 <Makoto> rrsagent, set logs world-visible
11:44:48 <Makoto> meeting: Accessibility Supported Subgroup - Week 4 - AGWG
11:45:47 <Makoto> agenda+ Documentation Check-in  "Accessibility supported in WCAG 2"
11:46:04 <Makoto> agenda+ Review comments on  "Accessibility supported in WCAG 2"
11:46:50 <Makoto> zakim, start meeting
11:46:50 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
11:46:51 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), Makoto
11:47:01 <Makoto> meeting: Accessibility Supported Subgroup - Week 4 - AGWG
12:01:18 <bruce_bailey> bruce_bailey has joined #wcag3-supported
12:01:39 <Makoto> present+
12:01:49 <LauraBMiller> LauraBMiller has joined #wcag3-supported
12:03:14 <Makoto> Handbook https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_caRiZaTQDmsd2Vq415sz4AIullNse-GeGtohUfg_5M/edit#
12:03:27 <Rachael> present+
12:03:28 <Makoto> Subgrouop wiki https://github.com/w3c/silver/wiki/Accessibility-supported-Subgroup
12:03:50 <Awk> Awk has joined #wcag3-supported
12:04:13 <LauraBMiller> present+
12:04:13 <Awk> Is there a different zoom link/meeting id?
12:04:26 <Awk> Says it is invalid
12:04:30 <Makoto> Zoom https://mit.zoom.us/j/98115280962
12:04:49 <bruce_bailey> s/ Zoom https://mit.zoom.us/j/98115280962//
12:05:44 <Makoto> zakim, take up item
12:05:44 <Zakim> I don't understand 'take up item', Makoto
12:05:51 <bruce_bailey> q+
12:05:55 <Makoto> zakim, take up next item
12:05:55 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Documentation Check-in  "Accessibility supported in WCAG 2" -- taken up [from Makoto]
12:07:26 <bruce_bailey> I don't think I have finished with 508 use case
12:10:00 <bruce_bailey> Use case notes seem worth while, but it is not clear to me how they relate to goal of presenting back to AGWG pro/con of accessibility support.
12:10:51 <bruce_bailey> Bruce to write up some summary prose on how Access Board addressed topic of Accessibility Support with 508 Refresh
12:11:03 <bruce_bailey> ack me
12:11:25 <bruce_bailey> scribe: bruce_bailey
12:11:46 <bruce_bailey> Reviewing Use Case 3 and 5 in doc
12:11:47 <bruce_bailey> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XxzwsgWZSDh2EDqTag-nYfrqAT3b6Glpu8DGbVpTd9M/edit
12:11:55 <bruce_bailey> q?
12:12:04 <bruce_bailey> q+
12:12:06 <bruce_bailey> q?
12:12:08 <bruce_bailey> ack me
12:12:47 <bruce_bailey> s/Case 3 and 5/Cases/
12:13:02 <bruce_bailey> q+
12:13:42 <Rachael> q+
12:13:45 <bruce_bailey> Mokoto:  Review Use case three by Pormnima (sp) on Browsers and AT support
12:13:52 <bruce_bailey> ack me
12:15:07 <Makoto> ack Rachael
12:15:16 <bruce_bailey> s/Pormnima (sp)/Poornima/
12:15:52 <bruce_bailey> Rachael:  What Poornima has started is similar to what Laura and I had been discussing.
12:15:55 <bruce_bailey> q+
12:16:10 <Makoto> ack bruce
12:16:26 <Rachael> that makes sense
12:16:46 <LauraBMiller> Q+ about "Older" accessibility products
12:17:14 <Makoto> ack Laura
12:17:16 <bruce_bailey> Bruce:  prefer Rachael and Laura and build from what Poornima has started
12:18:17 <bruce_bailey> Laura:  Suggest "legacy" instead of "older" because might what to distinguish between older versions and commercial products no longer being developed.
12:18:34 <Rachael> q+
12:18:35 <bruce_bailey> ... Are we talking about supporting well established products only?
12:19:02 <bruce_bailey> ack
12:19:10 <bruce_bailey> ack about
12:19:18 <bruce_bailey> ack "Older"
12:19:29 <bruce_bailey> ack me
12:19:29 <Zakim> bruce_bailey, you wanted to say what
12:19:44 <Rachael> q- accessibility
12:19:45 <bruce_bailey> q- accessibility,
12:19:49 <Rachael> q- products
12:20:02 <Makoto> ack Rachael
12:20:55 <bruce_bailey> Rachael:  Going into a little more detail, there are some valuable sections, so should each Use Case have those sections?
12:21:46 <bruce_bailey> Mokoto asks Bruce (and he agrees) to add Challenges and Suggestions to the 508 Refresh use case.
12:22:01 <Rachael> q+ to suggest edit access so we can use the formatting
12:22:42 <bruce_bailey> Makoto:  AWK can you add more for accessibility support experience with PDF ?
12:23:35 <Makoto> ack Rachael
12:23:35 <Zakim> Rachael, you wanted to suggest edit access so we can use the formatting
12:23:38 <bruce_bailey> AWK:  I can write up what we did, namely helping document for working group (10 years ago) that PDF is example of Accessibility Supported.
12:24:42 <bruce_bailey> Rachael:  Please promote all of us to Editors because with about ability to accept changes, navigation is not working.
12:25:03 <LauraBMiller> Q+
12:25:04 <bruce_bailey> ... Prefer "legacy" as better than older.
12:25:05 <bruce_bailey> q+
12:25:15 <Makoto> ack Laura
12:25:25 <bruce_bailey> q+ to ask about "older" vs "legacy"
12:26:01 <bruce_bailey> Laura:  We should determine what products we are looking for
12:26:14 <bruce_bailey> ... question as to what becomes "legacy"
12:27:06 <bruce_bailey> Mokoto:  After that step, we might discuss what we determining as what is at risk.  Other possible use cases we should document?
12:28:43 <bruce_bailey> ...After that, we will go onto discussion what we could propose as pros and cons for Accessibility Support with WCAG 3.
12:28:56 <bruce_bailey> ... By next week we should assess schedule.
12:29:40 <bruce_bailey> ... In Japan, we keep testing over-and-over again because screen readers keep updating..
12:30:21 <bruce_bailey> ... very time consuming and does not seem like best use of time.  Huge challenge because there is not good documentation...
12:31:01 <bruce_bailey> ... about how PC Talker supports document techniques.  Japanese versions of NVDA and JAWS are better documented...
12:31:11 <Makoto> q?
12:31:15 <bruce_bailey> ... this is a big change for Japan.
12:31:21 <Makoto> ack bruce
12:31:21 <Zakim> bruce_bailey, you wanted to ask about "older" vs "legacy"
12:31:55 <Rachael> q+
12:32:03 <Makoto> ack Rachael
12:32:29 <bruce_bailey> Bruce suggest legacy versus older is very difficult to investigate.  How far back?
12:32:37 <LauraBMiller> Q+
12:33:10 <bruce_bailey> Rachael:  For our write up, we will note challenge and propose something.
12:33:32 <bruce_bailey> Mokoto:  Is problem that it is not well defined.
12:34:11 <bruce_bailey> AWK:  WCAG2x is basically saying there must AT which works, not most popular or even latest version...
12:34:28 <bruce_bailey> ...What I hear proposed sounds more constrained...
12:34:46 <bruce_bailey> ...May variables, platforms as well as browsers...
12:34:52 <Makoto> ack Laura
12:35:18 <bruce_bailey> ...also sometimes the latest version breaks something.
12:36:00 <bruce_bailey> Laura:  I would like to put some parameters about how much we are looking into.  Hopefully we can propose reasonable cut off.
12:37:01 <bruce_bailey> ... Some JAWS versions are legacy and unsupported.  No compelling reason to go far back, but we prose something sensible.
12:37:24 <Rachael> q+ to schedule initial brief back to AG
12:37:28 <bruce_bailey> Makoto:  I would like to propose target of where we are at for week six.
12:37:49 <bruce_bailey> ...TPAC is a hard deadline.  We want to have something for that meeting.
12:37:54 <Makoto> ack Rachael
12:37:54 <Zakim> Rachael, you wanted to schedule initial brief back to AG
12:38:35 <bruce_bailey> Rachael:  There is in the working draft handbook, the idea to have four-week touch point back to AGWG.  Can that happen for this group?
12:39:16 <bruce_bailey> Makoto would like AWK PDF write up for next week?
12:39:21 <bruce_bailey> AWK:  yes
12:39:24 <bruce_bailey> Bruce: yes
12:40:02 <bruce_bailey> Makoto, so I could present at AGWG meeting after that.
12:40:38 <bruce_bailey> Makoto asks Laura about other use case which might be documented?
12:41:04 <bruce_bailey> Laura:  Rachael and I will discuss off line, and share at next week calls.
12:41:49 <bruce_bailey> Makoto:  Does anyone know of any database in English or other languages?
12:42:28 <AWK> AWK has joined #wcag3-supported
12:42:36 <bruce_bailey> Laura:  I remember seen Wikipedia resource, so I will look for that.
12:43:09 <bruce_bailey> Makoto:  I will ask AGWG list.
12:43:35 <bruce_bailey> s/Laura:  I remember/Rachael:  I remember/
12:44:11 <bruce_bailey> Makoto:  I am not seeing new comments to our working document.  We discussed comments last week.
12:44:50 <bruce_bailey> Makoto:  Please be encouraged to address current comments in working document...
12:45:28 <bruce_bailey> ... I will give you all editor permissions, so what changes currently in document can be accepted.
12:45:29 <Makoto> q?
12:45:44 <bruce_bailey> ...Any question about comments in document so far?
12:45:58 <LauraBMiller> q+
12:46:07 <Makoto> ack Laura
12:48:01 <LauraBMiller> s/... Some JAWS versions are legacy and unsupported.  No compelling reason to go far back, but we prose something sensible. / I guessing imagine that ... Some JAWS versions are legacy and unsupported.  No compelling reason to go far back, but we prose something sensible.
12:48:52 <bruce_bailey> s/prose something/propose something
12:48:59 <Rachael> rrsagent, generate minutes
12:48:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/08/09-wcag3-supported-minutes.html Rachael
12:49:27 <bruce_bailey> present+
12:49:37 <AWK> +AWK
12:50:41 <bruce_bailey> Makoto:  Thanks everyone, please use ten minutes to review shared doc!
12:52:03 <bruce_bailey> s/Zoom https:\/\/mit.zoom.us\/j\/98115280962//
12:53:03 <bruce_bailey> s/ Zoom https:\/\/mit.zoom.us\/j\/98115280962\//
12:53:16 <bruce_bailey> rssagent, generate minutes
12:53:44 <bruce_bailey> rrsagent, generate minutes
12:53:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/08/09-wcag3-supported-minutes.html bruce_bailey
13:15:01 <Makoto> present+ AWK
13:15:56 <Makoto> regrets:Poornima
13:23:00 <Makoto> s/Japanese versions of NVDA and JAWS are better documented/We might be able to find information on JAWS and NVDA if available online
13:24:46 <Makoto> s/Huge challenge because there is not good documentation.../Huge challenge because there was not any information on how well PC-Talker supported each sufficient technique....
13:25:29 <Makoto> s/about how PC Talker supports document techniques./we had to do something on PC-Talker.
13:26:19 <Makoto> s/this is a big change for Japan./this has been a big challenge for Japan.
13:27:33 <Makoto> s/Is problem that it is not well defined./The problem was that it was not well defined.
13:29:10 <Makoto> s/where we are at for week six./where we will be at for week 5 and 6.
13:30:36 <Makoto> s/I will ask AGWG list./I will ask it AGWG call.
13:31:17 <Makoto> rrsagent, generate minutes
13:31:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/08/09-wcag3-supported-minutes.html Makoto
13:32:16 <Makoto> s/I will ask it AGWG call./I will ask it at AGWG call.
13:32:27 <Makoto> rrsagent, generate minutes
13:32:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/08/09-wcag3-supported-minutes.html Makoto
13:47:53 <Makoto> zakim, please part
13:47:53 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been Makoto, Rachael, LauraBMiller, bruce_bailey, AWK
13:47:53 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wcag3-supported
13:48:08 <Makoto> rssagent, please part
13:50:50 <Makoto> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:51:06 <Makoto> trackbot, end meeting
13:51:18 <Makoto> rrsagent, please part
13:51:18 <RRSAgent> I see no action items