IRC log of silver on 2022-08-05

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:31:21 [RRSAgent]
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logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/08/05-silver-irc
13:31:23 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:31:24 [Zakim]
Meeting: Silver Task Force & Community Group
13:31:50 [jeanne]
agenda?
13:32:04 [jeanne]
present:
13:32:04 [jeanne]
chair: jeanne
13:32:04 [jeanne]
present+
13:32:04 [jeanne]
zakim, clear agenda
13:32:04 [Zakim]
agenda cleared
13:32:05 [jeanne]
rrsagent, make minutes
13:32:05 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/08/05-silver-minutes.html jeanne
13:32:05 [jeanne]
q?
13:32:16 [jeanne]
regrets+ Shawn
13:33:45 [jeanne]
agenda+ WCAG3 topics at AG next Tuesday
13:34:46 [jeanne]
agenda+ Writing process next steps
13:35:34 [jeanne]
regrets+ Todd, Wilco, Makoto
13:59:19 [janina]
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14:00:33 [janina]
present+
14:01:18 [Azlan]
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14:01:52 [MichaelC]
present+
14:02:52 [Azlan]
present+
14:05:24 [Azlan]
scribe+
14:05:56 [Azlan]
zakim, take up item 1
14:05:56 [Zakim]
agendum 1 -- WCAG3 topics at AG next Tuesday -- taken up [from jeanne]
14:06:26 [Azlan]
The AG meeting this week will be mostly focussed on 2.2
14:06:28 [jeanne]
... Access to WCAG 3 Google docs
14:06:28 [jeanne]
... Subgroup status reports
14:07:10 [Azlan]
zakim, next item
14:07:10 [Zakim]
agendum 2 -- Writing process next steps -- taken up [from jeanne]
14:08:50 [Azlan]
jeanne: Shawn had a great idea. To take what we have about the silver writing process and adapt it to the new maturity levels for WCAG3 that has been agreed. SO that we converge the Silver process to be an agile process and put it in the maturity level it should go with.
14:09:04 [Azlan]
...do people think this is a good idea?
14:09:27 [Azlan]
janina: To clarify this refers to the categorisation such as exploratory label
14:09:49 [Azlan]
jeanne: This allows people to give feedback in a more iterative way.
14:10:18 [Azlan]
...I have set up an overview document
14:10:24 [jeanne]
Overview of Writing Process by Maturity Level -> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1iu3-vr2vMoDxr0YjwSEQsuOMjTzQxh1ODgRd57Ea-i8/
14:12:34 [Azlan]
Takes links to references to maturity levels and references to the Silver writing process categorisation and migration folder in google docs
14:13:04 [Jem]
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14:13:15 [Jem]
present+
14:13:23 [Jem]
agenda?
14:13:43 [Jem]
rrsagent, make miniutes
14:13:43 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'make miniutes', Jem. Try /msg RRSAgent help
14:13:54 [Jem]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:13:54 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/08/05-silver-minutes.html Jem
14:14:38 [Azlan]
...summary of the maturity levels (placeholder, exploratory, developing, refining, mature)
14:14:43 [SuzanneTaylor]
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14:15:17 [Azlan]
... there are sections for each level. The idea is to go through the writing process and see how this fits
14:17:00 [Azlan]
For placeholder information it should include a link to the document of the breakdown of each success criteria we are migrating
14:18:02 [Azlan]
janina: Suggests to try one as an example to help understanding
14:19:28 [jeanne]
Folder of SC Migration exercise -> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1t9H47G5gIUUSONx-Aly3UGCfQ7G0NI_V
14:20:36 [jeanne]
Try it out with 1.4.2 Audio Controls -> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1oXqNZ22r1qDToD1mP0-0h3dOe9JqHkO09o9o2vcWJYc/edit
14:20:56 [Azlan]
Taking audio controls to demonstrate https://docs.google.com/document/d/1oXqNZ22r1qDToD1mP0-0h3dOe9JqHkO09o9o2vcWJYc/edit
14:22:35 [Azlan]
jeanne: Suggest we could have preliminary functional needs, units and test type, and the sub guidelines for placeholder
14:23:24 [Azlan]
janina: what kind of controls are included?
14:23:48 [Azlan]
jeanne: auto-play, adjust independent volume
14:24:56 [Azlan]
janina: playing longer than 3 seconds contradicts the first guideline so we should put it in placeholder
14:25:31 [Azlan]
jeanne: I think this starts to go into exploratory thinking about the conflicts
14:25:56 [Azlan]
janina: Wouldn't this go higher as it is no longer controversial?
14:26:46 [Azlan]
jeanne: we can base on what already existed but this could be new.
14:30:10 [Azlan]
SuzanneTaylor: assuming we make the sub guidelines placeholder, what would be the process?
14:30:54 [Azlan]
Jem: based onprevious experience this was done in github
14:31:28 [Azlan]
...people didn't look at the actual content but picked up on the placeholder
14:32:17 [Azlan]
...how do we clearly understand the migration and let people know
14:32:27 [jeanne]
Maturity Level Process Chart -> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1G-h2JHIFZtQklMMmRaoZYEjJeX1WcVaRBafNUmQk7NQ/
14:33:40 [Azlan]
janina: So if there are things missing what is the process?
14:34:16 [Azlan]
jeanne: I think the best thing is to update the document and add comments so people know when they start the placeholder they know whats missing
14:36:27 [Azlan]
Jem: Indicates we really need somebody that knows that SC. We should have an expert involved
14:37:48 [Azlan]
jeanne: placeholder just states we have started looking at this item. Exploratory state we have a group (including some with deep knowledge). What would we want to do next to say this is the exploratory content?
14:38:18 [Azlan]
Jem: hearing when we have a new SC this is the new process. Is this for new SC or for existing?
14:38:58 [Azlan]
jeanne: both - may need adaptation a little but should work for both. We want to re-examine and fix the existing SCs
14:39:54 [Azlan]
SuzanneTaylor: If we challenge the groups at each stage even if they are just putting placeholder content then we time box it and then we can add value at each stage
14:40:33 [Azlan]
jeanne: placeholder is what they are given. Exploratory is when work has begun
14:41:29 [Azlan]
Jem: would that be refinement?
14:41:57 [Azlan]
SuzanneTaylor: if it's a copy paste from google doc to github then timebox and it will get us further
14:42:22 [kirkwood]
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14:42:28 [Azlan]
jeanne: for exploratory we review the functional needs, user needs then in exploratory we identify the types of tests needed and sketch them out
14:42:45 [Azlan]
...the methods should go in developing
14:44:21 [Azlan]
SuzanneTaylor: think it should be done at each phase. First pass is placeholder and next is exploratory. I'd put everything in an exploratory
14:44:36 [MichaelC]
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14:45:25 [Azlan]
Agreement from janina and Jem
14:56:47 [jeanne]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:56:47 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/08/05-silver-minutes.html jeanne
14:57:18 [jeanne]
Jeanne: To Dos
14:57:29 [jeanne]
... Do we write Outcomes before tests?
14:57:29 [jeanne]
... Whether to use functional needs or user needs to develop the Exploratory material?
14:58:02 [Azlan]
zakim, bye
14:58:02 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees have been jeanne, janina, MichaelC, Azlan, Jem
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14:58:20 [Azlan]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:58:20 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/08/05-silver-minutes.html Azlan
17:44:35 [SuzanneTaylor]
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