19:02:40 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria-at
19:02:40 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/08/01-aria-at-irc
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19:02:49 <s3ththompson> MEETING: ARIA-AT Automation and Community Group Meetings
19:02:53 <s3ththompson> rrsagent, make minutes
19:02:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/08/01-aria-at-minutes.html s3ththompson
19:02:55 <s3ththompson> present+
19:02:58 <s3ththompson> SCRIBE: s3ththompson
19:03:06 <s3ththompson> RRSAgent, make logs publi
19:03:08 <s3ththompson> RRSAgent, make logs public
19:05:13 <michael_fairchild> michael_fairchild has joined #aria-at
19:05:46 <s3ththompson> TOPIC: Status of the NVDA Implementation of Automation API Standard
19:06:20 <s3ththompson> present+ James Scholes
19:07:06 <s3ththompson> James Scholes: we have been developing a POC concept. we have a standalone executable which is the remote end (server) which separately connects to NVDA via an addon. ultimately we hope that code will be upstreamed to NVDA itself. that serves as the listening side on NVDA
19:07:58 <s3ththompson> James Scholes: the local user of the API will connect to the remote end and start a session and the server will attempt to spin up that version of the AT
19:08:06 <s3ththompson> present+ Matt_King
19:08:15 <s3ththompson> present+ michael_fairchild
19:08:27 <s3ththompson> Matt_King: what happens if NVDA is already running?
19:08:48 <s3ththompson> James Scholes: i'm not sure that's covered in the spec... we need to figure out what happens when an instance is already running
19:09:22 <s3ththompson> James Scholes: my view is that the version that is spun up by the server will not be installed on the machine, it will be a separate version. the risk that we may make changes to your settings etc. might be too great
19:09:27 <s3ththompson> present+ mzgoddard
19:09:54 <s3ththompson> mzgoddard: that is analogous to how browsers handle things
19:10:11 <s3ththompson> Matt_King: but then are we asking screen reader vendors to support running two versions at the same time?
19:10:45 <s3ththompson> James Scholes: i don't think so.. i think the capability is left up to the vendor. if they can't run two instances at one time, then there would be some sort of error message and it simply wouldn't be possible
19:12:39 <s3ththompson> Matt_King: shouldn't the spec express a requirement about what should happen if other screen readers or running?
19:12:46 <s3ththompson> *are
19:13:11 <s3ththompson> James Scholes: I don't necessarily think so... if i was using this Automation API, i would want to spin up clean instances in the cloud, etc.
19:14:31 <s3ththompson> s3ththompson: there are other places than the spec for this sort of validation behavior to live
19:14:50 <s3ththompson> James Scholes: right, we plan to provide utilities for downloading the ATs, etc. but i don't think they belong in the spec
19:15:33 <s3ththompson> mzgoddard: the spec should detail what happens when a session fails, but probably not all the reasons it should fail
19:17:20 <s3ththompson> James Scholes: we implemented a proof of concept where sending messages to the remote end controls the implementation. that was working
19:18:01 <s3ththompson> James Scholes: the next milestone is to implement milestones 0, 1 from the spec, and work on exposing settings. we're targeting end of september for that work
19:18:24 <s3ththompson> michael_fairchild: out of curiosity, what langauge are you working in?
19:19:03 <s3ththompson> James Scholes: go for the remote end (since it produces easily distributable standalone binaries) and python for the nvda addon
19:23:53 <s3ththompson> Matt_King: speaking of milestone 1, settings, did Simon get a chance to update the spec since our last conversation about getallsupported sessions?
19:23:57 <s3ththompson> s3ththompson: yes
19:24:09 <s3ththompson> Matt_King: what about listing all possible values for each setting?
19:24:22 <s3ththompson> s3ththompson: we don't have that right now
19:24:41 <s3ththompson> James Scholes: I think that would be documentation related. there's certainly no easy way to do that in NVDA...
19:25:00 <s3ththompson> James Scholes: we certainly could look at validation errors in NVDA
19:28:30 <s3ththompson> s3ththompson: anything you're blocked on, on the spec side?
19:28:43 <s3ththompson> James Scholes: nothing blocking on our end. things are ticking along nicely
19:30:41 <s3ththompson> TOPIC: Repository location / open sourcing implementations
19:32:08 <s3ththompson> Matt_King: I'd love to discuss open sourcing a repository for the NVDA implementation. I don't think the w3c org is necessarily the right place or the right license for it
19:32:43 <s3ththompson> Matt_King: I don't have any strong opinions here, just want to bring it up for discussion
19:44:19 <s3ththompson> *discussion of correct license, org, etc.*
19:44:31 <s3ththompson> Matt_King: i will follow up internally to get a perspective on this
19:45:19 <s3ththompson> James Scholes: for now, we plan to open source it after we implement the work above, targeting September. we want to pick a license that is compatible with NVDA, etc.
19:46:06 <s3ththompson> s3ththompson: i think if there's any recommendation here from the arrangement of other projects like webdriver, it would be to have the work be as close to NVDA and their org as possible...
19:46:20 <s3ththompson> TOPIC: Upcoming milestones
19:50:26 <s3ththompson> s3ththompson: we've drafted Milestone 0: Protocol, Milestone 1: Settings, Milestone 2: Capture output, Milestone 3: Keypresses, upcoming is Milestone 4: Activate commands, Milestone 5: Headless mode, and Milestone 6: Internal state
19:50:45 <s3ththompson> s3ththompson: simon will be back in middle of september to work on upcoming spec milestones
19:51:01 <s3ththompson> Matt_King: should we foreground milestone 6?
19:51:50 <s3ththompson> James Scholes: i think internal state may be more important than commands / headless mode... but i also think that we need a way to access mode that doesn't rely on internal state
19:52:08 <s3ththompson> James Scholes: I opened a related issue under aria-at about modes: https://github.com/w3c/aria-at/issues/795
19:52:38 <s3ththompson> James Scholes: but yes, we should probably reorder internal state as milestone 4
19:58:34 <s3ththompson> Matt_King: the second question, related to schedule is about TPAC
19:58:57 <s3ththompson> s3ththompson: we've started discussions at bocoup. can share more next week
20:00:04 <s3ththompson> Matt_King: I'm going. james craig is going i think. it's possible that glen gordon might be there
20:00:16 <s3ththompson> James Scholes: I don't think we've considered anything yet
20:00:23 <s3ththompson> michael_fairchild: i wasn't considering it yet
20:01:09 <s3ththompson> Matt_King: i think we should consider facilitating a session related to this
20:03:54 <s3ththompson> rrsagent, make minutes
20:03:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/08/01-aria-at-minutes.html s3ththompson