IRC log of adapt on 2022-08-01

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:30:35 [RRSAgent]
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logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/08/01-adapt-irc
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RRSAgent, make logs public
13:30:37 [Zakim]
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13:30:39 [trackbot]
Meeting: WAI Adapt Task Force Teleconference
13:30:39 [trackbot]
Date: 01 August 2022
13:30:49 [Sharon]
agenda?
13:31:08 [Sharon]
chair: Sharon
13:31:32 [Sharon]
agenda+ CfC for Content Module 1.0 CR Status, Issues raised by the W3C Director upon their review [1] Exit criteria (Lionel & Matt), [2] TAG Response Resolution (Sharon research) [3] BCI (Janina communication)
13:34:45 [Sharon]
agenda+ Respond to issue #203 (Janina)
13:35:01 [Sharon]
agenda+ TPAC 12-16 September 2022 preparations
13:35:15 [Sharon]
agenda+ Discuss @rel vs. purpose/destination/action -- add to the explainer
13:35:26 [Sharon]
agenda+ Content Module Implementations Status, focus on new candidates
13:35:33 [Sharon]
agenda?
13:54:56 [janina]
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agenda?
14:01:27 [Lionel_Wolberger]
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14:01:31 [Lionel_Wolberger]
agenda?
14:02:03 [Roy]
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14:02:19 [Lionel_Wolberger]
present+
14:04:21 [becky]
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14:04:32 [becky]
present+
14:05:42 [becky]
scribe: becky
14:05:51 [janina]
present+
14:05:56 [becky]
zakim, next item
14:05:56 [Zakim]
agendum 1 -- CfC for Content Module 1.0 CR Status, Issues raised by the W3C Director upon their review [1] Exit criteria (Lionel & Matt), [2] TAG Response Resolution (Sharon
14:06:00 [Zakim]
... research) [3] BCI (Janina communication) -- taken up [from Sharon]
14:06:02 [Roy]
present+
14:06:26 [CharlesL]
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14:06:32 [CharlesL]
present+
14:07:15 [becky]
sharon: Lionel and Matthew have not met, yet on exit criteria
14:07:19 [Sharon]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-adapt/2022Jul/0011.html
14:08:01 [becky]
sharon: url above tries to summarize the open issues. It looks like we may have closed #170 prematurely
14:08:27 [becky]
sharon: reads notes from above link that relate to meetings with TAG
14:08:38 [Sharon]
https://github.com/w3c/adapt/issues/170
14:11:27 [becky]
sharon: issue #170 was closed by John; there were discussions on distractions and overlap with media query; TAG had concerns about media query features that already include user preferences. This is in relation to issue 146
14:12:16 [Sharon]
q?
14:12:21 [becky]
sharon: TAG's issue 476 raised concerns; We raised ADAPT issue #170 to address these and 170 got closed without complete resolution
14:14:09 [becky]
sharon: TAG closed #476 but we still need to address sensory issues; our 170 was about that distraction values needed to be updated
14:15:04 [becky]
sharon: our issue 170 links to content module 1; We said that we added values but new values are not showing up in our draft.
14:15:14 [becky]
q?
14:15:37 [janina]
q+
14:16:19 [becky]
sharon: Do we still need to compare MQ5 with what we have and meet with that team
14:16:19 [Sharon]
ack janina
14:17:17 [becky]
Janina: We must address this before we can move forward; APA and CSS always meet at TPAC so we can address there; We don't intend or think that we are clashing with CSS
14:19:05 [becky]
sharon: On May 28, 2021 - nothing had been added due to reduced motion; we are giving metadata control at the element level vs CSS which provides it at the page level - this is key.
14:20:02 [CharlesL]
q+
14:20:06 [becky]
Janina: we need to clarify and verify there is no overlap. To reiterate, CSS only gives override at the page level; ADAPT is facilitating more granular change at the element level which is clear
14:20:46 [becky]
Janina: will work with Matthew to schedule time with TAG at TPAC
14:21:00 [Sharon]
ack CharlesL
14:21:29 [Lionel_Wolberger]
q+
14:21:39 [becky]
charles: in #170 we see the samples are done but we don't know where those are; Seems we need to create an example with two audio type distractions that we want to handle differently in different sections of the page
14:21:44 [Sharon]
ack Lionel_Wolberger
14:21:59 [janina]
q+ to say it could be either, and both would be best
14:22:00 [becky]
Lionel_Wolberger : agree that working code always works best, curious why picking audio vs visual
14:22:15 [becky]
CharlesL : I believe 170 referred to audio or tactile
14:22:28 [becky]
Lionel_Wolberger : I was thinking of a timer and a carousel (for visual)
14:23:13 [becky]
sharon: I think we went towards audio because media queries focuses on visual; we wanted to show this is more than just visual so suggested audio
14:23:58 [becky]
becky: remembering that discussion but not sure it was related to 170
14:24:29 [Sharon]
q?
14:24:36 [Sharon]
ack janina
14:24:36 [Zakim]
janina, you wanted to say it could be either, and both would be best
14:24:43 [becky]
Lionel_Wolberger : I have seen pages with timers and carousels and other distractions on the page, where it would be useful to keep the timer and not the others
14:25:49 [becky]
janina: basically agree that we need examples; timers are covered by aria-live for screen readers; but a smarter countdown (that limits the number of interruptions until the time is near end) would be useful
14:26:31 [becky]
sharon: media query does have a session timeout option - the amount of time but not an ability to change the setting
14:26:42 [Sharon]
q?
14:27:29 [becky]
janina: WCAG 2 is problematic on the timeout issue - it requires 20 hours of open session which is not realistic to maintain security/privacy
14:27:50 [becky]
janina: I recommended solution to allow user to save data and come back to it
14:28:26 [becky]
sharon: looking at issues 170 and TAG 476 it seems we need to reopen 170 and revisited
14:29:30 [becky]
janina: yes, reopen 170 and find distinction from Media queries via examples and we do need to connect with TAG at TPAC
14:29:57 [becky]
Lionel_Wolberger : distracting advertisements are an issue
14:30:26 [becky]
sharon: be we had a long discussion about that because advertisements provide revenue
14:30:50 [becky]
Janina: they can be distracting but they can also be informational; allow people to look on their own time
14:31:30 [becky]
sharon: in 170 we talk about audio and tactile and wanted to add values for those and remove the visual values and let CSS handle
14:31:58 [becky]
janina: but John is correct that CSS only handles page level, we need to handle element level
14:32:53 [CharlesL]
q+
14:33:20 [becky]
sharon: examples include mp3; animated gif; countdown widget, stock ticker
14:33:29 [Sharon]
q?
14:33:36 [Sharon]
ack CharlesL
14:34:30 [becky]
CharlesL : in looking at tag 476, TAG encouraged us to open an issue with CSS to discuss overlap between MQ5 and ADAPT
14:35:04 [becky]
janina: Media queries is a spec. produced by CSS; features in MQ5 were discussed at TPAC in Lisbon
14:36:25 [becky]
Janina: should discuss with CSS that MQ5 features are page level; they have other features that are element level, why not some of the distraction ones? Should clarify that
14:37:26 [becky]
Lionel_Wolberger : short window to develop examples for TPAC to show element level distraction issues
14:37:53 [Sharon]
https://www.w3.org/TR/adapt-content/#values-3
14:38:07 [becky]
janina: stock ticker seems like least controversial example
14:38:25 [becky]
Sharon: link above gets you to section of document for example
14:38:43 [becky]
sharon: BCI issue
14:38:43 [Sharon]
q?
14:38:58 [CharlesL]
q+
14:39:29 [becky]
TOPIC: Janina's action on BCI
14:39:47 [Sharon]
ack CharlesL
14:41:03 [becky]
Charles: back to examples; you are on a trading web site with a countdown timer and a stock ticker running at the same time (the countdown for how long you have to complete the transaction)
14:42:06 [becky]
Lionel_Wolberger : on a stock page with a stock ticker running and you are purchasing a seat at a webinar
14:42:17 [becky]
TOPIC: BCI
14:43:28 [becky]
janina: we need Russell from BCI to have something formally documented between W3 and Bliss to use their index; Director wants a normative reference; We don't want PDF, excel is better, CSV is better; Need Russell's help to write the spec
14:43:44 [becky]
janina: action for ADAPT is that we need to begin on a registry spec
14:43:52 [becky]
Lionel_Wolberger : I have agreed to work on that
14:44:43 [becky]
Janina: we just need to define the spec; we don't have to address hosting
14:44:47 [becky]
janina: is a normative spec
14:45:51 [CharlesL]
q+
14:45:57 [becky]
janina: we get to define the format; there is a registry in the W3C process so there must be/have been a group that wanted it;
14:46:08 [Sharon]
ack CharlesL
14:46:52 [becky]
CharlesL : CSV format is a good suggestion for being able to easily map
14:47:04 [becky]
janina: also avoids vendor lock in to Excel
14:47:46 [becky]
Lionel_Wolberger : I would like to have a registry draft spec for TPAC
14:48:10 [becky]
janina: we should at least have the requirements laid out; then writing the spec won't be hard
14:48:17 [becky]
janina: suggest working in git
14:48:27 [becky]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:48:27 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/08/01-adapt-minutes.html becky
14:49:12 [becky]
Janina: we need to take this registry through the W3 process and then we can reference it in Adapt 1.0
14:51:41 [becky]
Janina: we can go to 1.0 without the registry fully complete, but we will likely get more uptake if we also have the registry completed. It shouldn't be too problematic
14:52:18 [becky]
janina: history of how registry came about should be documented in W3C process community group
14:54:14 [becky]
Lionel_Wolberger : would be helpful if there was a spec that resembles this; are we just defining a database scheme?
14:54:43 [becky]
janina: yes, a database schema;
14:56:20 [becky]
janina: we are defining a standard for Bliss symbolics
14:57:03 [Matthew_Atkinson]
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14:57:27 [becky]
Lionel_Wolberger : an example would certainly help in defining a new registry;
14:57:32 [becky]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:57:32 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/08/01-adapt-minutes.html becky
14:58:19 [becky]
group agrees, great forensics by Sharon!
14:58:29 [becky]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:58:29 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/08/01-adapt-minutes.html becky
14:58:43 [becky]
zakim, bye
14:58:43 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees have been Lionel_Wolberger, becky, janina, Roy, CharlesL
14:58:43 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #adapt
14:58:49 [becky]
rrsagent, bye
14:58:49 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items