12:38:15 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #silver
12:38:15 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/07/29-silver-irc
12:38:17 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
12:38:18 <Zakim> Meeting: Silver Task Force & Community Group
12:41:44 <jeanne> present:
12:41:44 <jeanne> chair: Shawn, jeanne
12:41:44 <jeanne> present+
12:41:44 <jeanne> zakim, clear agenda
12:41:44 <Zakim> agenda cleared
12:41:45 <jeanne> rrsagent, make minutes
12:41:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/07/29-silver-minutes.html jeanne
12:41:45 <jeanne> q?
12:45:51 <jeanne> agenda+ this week's AG survey
12:46:27 <jeanne> agenda+ Updates to wiki - plans to transition
12:46:38 <jeanne> agenda+ Pre-review categorization findings
12:46:38 <jeanne> agenda+ Writing process
13:52:45 <janina_> janina_ has joined #silver
13:57:22 <Lauriat> Lauriat has joined #silver
13:57:24 <Lauriat> agenda?
13:57:31 <Lauriat> Present+
13:58:06 <Jem> Jem has joined #silver
13:58:17 <Jem> rrsagent, make minutes
13:58:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/07/29-silver-minutes.html Jem
13:58:26 <Jem> present+ jemmaku
13:59:12 <Jem> Scribe: Jemma
14:00:20 <Jem> Topic: Pre-review categorization findings
14:00:26 <Jem> Topic: Writing Process
14:00:38 <Jem> present+ MichaelCooper
14:00:41 <janina_> present+
14:00:45 <Jem> present+ Shadi
14:00:56 <Jem> present+ Rachael
14:01:51 <Jem> present+ Sarah
14:01:59 <sarahhorton> sarahhorton has joined #silver
14:02:07 <sarahhorton> present+
14:02:08 <Jem> zakim, take up agenda item
14:02:08 <Zakim> 'item' does not match any agenda item, Jem
14:02:15 <Rachael> q+
14:02:17 <Jem> zakim, next
14:02:17 <Zakim> I don't understand 'next', Jem
14:02:18 <jeanne> zakim, take up item 1
14:02:18 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- this week's AG survey -- taken up [from jeanne]
14:02:24 <jeanne> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/2027-07-28-Evaluating-Procedures/
14:02:49 <Jem> Rachael: half of protocol is done
14:02:54 <ToddL> ToddL has joined #silver
14:02:59 <Lauriat> q+ to ask about the link
14:03:02 <ToddL> present+
14:03:27 <Jem> shawn: I had the error for the editing permions.
14:03:29 <Lauriat> ack Rachael
14:03:30 <Lauriat> ack me
14:03:30 <Zakim> Lauriat, you wanted to ask about the link
14:03:34 <Jem> Rachael: it is fixed.
14:03:40 <Poornima> Poornima has joined #silver
14:03:40 <jeanne> zakim, take up next
14:03:40 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Updates to wiki - plans to transition -- taken up [from jeanne]
14:03:43 <Jem> s/permions/permissions/
14:03:58 <Poornima> present+
14:04:08 <Makoto> Makoto has joined #silver
14:04:37 <jeanne> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/silver/wiki/
14:04:43 <Makoto> present+
14:05:31 <Jem> jeanne: announcement - as the part of transition process of Silver TF - Silver wiki will be archived. I also did some reorganization with the goal of easy to find and use.
14:06:00 <Jem> ..please suggest if you have any idea to make the content more usable.
14:06:04 <jeanne> zakim, take up next
14:06:04 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Pre-review categorization findings -- taken up [from jeanne]
14:06:32 <Rachael> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1Y6QLFenxi3pNl2I6WDtTIqx2T2-_i32PZnX0zrO8xBU/edit#slide=id.g136e9143f6e_0_0
14:07:33 <Jem> Rachael: explaining the process of categorization exercise...
14:07:53 <Jem> ...next goal is pattern analysis
14:07:54 <Rachael> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1m8J2zxoinwPQmLanLMUk_M0U4ttfTUvEkussPKLns-E/edit#heading=h.ej6nktjsuln8
14:09:03 <Jem> ... above link is trying to capture unusal use cases and lessons learned from -
14:09:03 <Jem> ...pleaes add if you have any thought to the doc.
14:09:04 <Jem> ... next steps document.
14:09:30 <Jem> ...we are on the section #3
14:09:46 <Jem> ...indetify overlap and gaps
14:10:04 <Jem> ... we are trying to organize the "conversation"
14:10:55 <SuzanneTaylor> SuzanneTaylor has joined #silver
14:10:57 <Jem> ... draft can be ready next week. If not, the draft will be on following week.
14:11:12 <Jem> .. SC breakdown by unit and test type data in the slide.
14:11:47 <Lauriat> q+ to note the draftiness of the categorization
14:11:53 <Jem> ... I found that we have 33 user process which is interesting
14:12:10 <Jem> ... aslo number of conditional type was #46
14:12:49 <Lauriat> ack me
14:12:49 <Zakim> Lauriat, you wanted to note the draftiness of the categorization
14:13:07 <Jem> shawn: quick note on draftness of the doc
14:13:42 <Jem> ... sc breakdown by functional need graph in the https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1Y6QLFenxi3pNl2I6WDtTIqx2T2-_i32PZnX0zrO8xBU/edit#slide=id.g136e9143f6e_0_17
14:14:25 <jeanne> q+
14:14:26 <Jem> Rachael: SC breakdwon by use need - perceivable -consistent content is 37 count
14:14:40 <Lauriat> ack jeanne
14:14:40 <kirkwood> present+
14:14:47 <Jem> .. no count for personalization preference.
14:15:39 <Jem> jeanne: reason for zero conunt for personalization preference was because it was looking at the user-agent oriented sc(?)
14:16:19 <SuzanneTaylor> present+
14:16:22 <SuzanneTaylor> q+
14:16:30 <Lauriat> ack SuzanneTaylor
14:16:39 <Jem> jeanne: what would be the implication of this data and how this can be contributed to WCAG?
14:17:26 <Poornima> q+
14:17:45 <Rachael> q+
14:19:05 <Jem> SuzanneTaylor: this helpful excercise by looking at existing guidelines. looking at subguideline would be helpful for other undiscussed area such as accesisbilty for child
14:19:16 <janina_> A bit concerned we could be challenged over "accessibility for children" as opposed to "for children with disabilities."
14:19:29 <Jem> s/this helpful/this is helpful/
14:19:42 <Lauriat> qv?
14:19:47 <janina_> i.e. being a youngster is not a disability, right?
14:19:56 <Lauriat> ack Poornima
14:20:13 <Jem> jeanne: it could be great this work can be the basic framework for what Suzanne is planing for accessiblity for child.
14:21:10 <janina_> Sure, just concerned we avoid the scoping police!
14:21:44 <jeanne> Janina, there are specific needs for children with disabilities
14:21:56 <SuzanneTaylor> thanks janina - interesting point - will bring this up with the group
14:22:11 <Jem> poornima: this data will help to each working group cover the gaps. ie. congnitive and sensory has only 5 and the relevant wg can use this guidance.
14:22:12 <jeanne> q+
14:22:28 <Rachael> ack Rachael
14:22:35 <SuzanneTaylor> "accessibility for children" is in fact, technically, a different thing
14:22:36 <jeanne> ack je
14:22:38 <Jem> Rachael: there is potential each WG can use this data and build the work
14:23:17 <janina_> q+
14:23:39 <Rachael> ack janina_
14:23:51 <SuzanneTaylor> q+
14:24:19 <Jem> janina: we may get challenge for the word, children itself so we may want to have more precise definition.
14:25:07 <Lauriat> q+ to suggest a next step (really: project)
14:25:12 <Jem> suzzane: our wg will work on the definition and scope of the term, accessibilty for children. it is complex since it is interconnected with other domain
14:25:27 <jeanne> ack suz
14:25:33 <jeanne> ack laur
14:25:33 <Zakim> Lauriat, you wanted to suggest a next step (really: project)
14:25:52 <Lauriat> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aCRXrtmnSSTso-6S_IO9GQ3AKTB4FYt9k92eT_1PWX4/edit#heading=h.gxtrny9ibdxo
14:25:54 <Rachael> q+
14:25:57 <Jem> shawn: next project is revisiting/revampting the silver outline
14:26:15 <Makoto> q+
14:27:09 <Jem> ... we did the similar excercise without strucutre. the next step is turning this into real guildelines/framework for WCAG.
14:27:18 <jeanne> ack rach
14:27:22 <jeanne> ack mako
14:27:35 <Rachael> q-
14:27:59 <Jem> makoto: one issue is that the sufficient techniques appear in mulitple criteria.
14:28:19 <Jem> ... sharing the examples..
14:29:13 <Jem> ... multiple techniques in mulple criteria hinders understadning of WCAG.
14:29:18 <sarahhorton> q+
14:29:23 <Jem> .. I hope it can be more simpler
14:29:34 <Jem> with this analysis
14:30:01 <jeanne> Unusual Use Cases -> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1m8J2zxoinwPQmLanLMUk_M0U4ttfTUvEkussPKLns-E/edit#heading=h.ej6nktjsuln8
14:30:12 <Jem> jeanne: can you add the case you mentioned to the Unusal case doc, Makoto?
14:30:17 <Jem> makoto: I will.
14:30:20 <jeanne> ack sara
14:31:06 <Jem> sarahhorton: is there a plan to take these notion to existing subguidelines?
14:31:41 <Jem> jeanne is sharing notion database in the screen
14:31:48 <Rachael> There is a goal to keep all this work and provide it to each subgroup that works within the area
14:32:32 <Jem> the notion data has WCAG SC and following sub SC
14:34:23 <Jem> sarahhorton: she summarized the Shawn's and Makoto's suggestion and integrated into the direction of next step.
14:34:23 <jeanne> zakim, take up next
14:34:23 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Writing process -- taken up [from jeanne]
14:34:34 <Rachael> +1 to our sincere thanks for all the work everyone did to get here.  We learned a great deal
14:34:43 <jeanne> wiki page -> https://github.com/w3c/silver/wiki/Writing-Process
14:36:36 <Jem> jeanne: we have been working on this doc since 2019(?) sarah's error prevention group and test group also contributed greatly on restructuring and clarifying the writing process.
14:36:42 <jeanne> presentation on Writing the Guidelines -> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1-V6svcPVxBve3_5lBeDvks7xOMJCFSNcuSUpnmBTzws/
14:37:15 <jeanne> slide 18 flowchart for writing -> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1-V6svcPVxBve3_5lBeDvks7xOMJCFSNcuSUpnmBTzws/edit#slide=id.gb0952f96d4_0_22
14:37:57 <Jem> jeanne: I think the process is stil the same.
14:38:24 <Jem> .. user need - outcome - methods - how to-  guidelines process
14:39:07 <jeanne> Template -> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Smly4XDxfzfXHa7AoUxoLXLy_3PdOXMkh0ZwtgksSPk/
14:39:35 <sarahhorton> q+
14:40:07 <Jem> jeanne: may the error prevention group share the feedback since the group followed this guidlines closely?
14:40:16 <Lauriat> ack sarahhorton
14:40:57 <sarahhorton> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gfYAiV2Z-FA_kEHYlLV32J8ClNEGPxRgSIohu3gUHEA/edit#heading=h.s6cmfinlgb3q
14:42:04 <Jem> sarahhorton: error prevention group used above doc - user flow focused in context of avoiding/remediating/preventing errors.
14:42:44 <Jem> ...design studio brainstorming approach was used by the error prevention group.
14:43:41 <Jem> jeanne: result of categorization grouping may be connected to greater user analysis?
14:43:45 <Lauriat> +1, my understanding as well
14:45:36 <Jem> shawn: history of categorization excercise and its implication - first it started with grouping excercise, then grouping excercise with categorziation
14:46:23 <Jem> .. first grouping excercise was focused on user experience in a fluid manner
14:47:01 <Jem> ..the second grouping excercise was done with type and category with underlying user needs.
14:48:19 <Jem> sarah: next step may be elaborating the user needs, functional needs although they are defined in some extent at this moment with current categorization effort.
14:49:19 <jeanne> q+
14:49:25 <Jem> shawn: adding more structure and clarification to the current finding and address user needs more will be next step.
14:49:37 <jeanne> q-
14:49:40 <Jem> sarahhorton: shadi's issue severity group
14:50:29 <shadi> s/shadi's issue severity group/shadi and I are on the issue severity group
14:50:58 <jeanne> q+ to say talk about 2018-2019  severity work
14:51:15 <Lauriat> ack jeanne
14:51:15 <Zakim> jeanne, you wanted to say talk about 2018-2019  severity work
14:51:40 <Jem> sarahhorton:  general engineering word like "perceived" will be challenging and issue severity group's work may be beneficial to this kind of categorization work.
14:52:01 <Jem> jeanne: we did work on severity rating work in the begining of the project
14:52:44 <Jem> ... the severity rating work did not work becuase the level of serverity can be personal/contexual
14:53:07 <SuzanneTaylor> q+
14:53:22 <Jem> ... unfortunately, severity approach failed in the past
14:53:29 <Lauriat> ack SuzanneTaylor
14:53:47 <Jem> suzanne: regarding severity
14:55:34 <Jem> ...going through error prevention process by users
14:55:41 <jeanne> s/unfortunately, severity approach failed in the past//unfortunately, severity approach by success criteria was not successful in past prototypes.  We pursued severity by context as an alternative, and that is what went in the FPWD
14:56:20 <Lauriat> q?
14:56:22 <jeanne> s/unfortunately, severity approach failed in the past/unfortunately, severity approach by success criteria was not successful in past prototypes.  We pursued severity by context as an alternative, and that is what went in the FPWD
14:56:54 <Jem> rrsagent, make minutes
14:56:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/07/29-silver-minutes.html Jem
15:17:37 <jeanne> rrsagent, bye
15:17:37 <RRSAgent> I see no action items