00:00:11 RRSAgent has joined #epub 00:00:11 logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/07/22-epub-irc 00:00:13 RRSAgent, make logs Public 00:00:14 please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), duga 00:00:22 present+ 00:00:31 present+ 00:00:34 present+ 00:00:43 present+ MasakazuKitahara 00:00:48 present+ 00:00:57 present+ toshiakikoike 00:02:18 scribe+ 00:02:47 MURATA has joined #epub 00:02:51 present+ 00:03:41 duga: welcome everyone. It's been a few weeks. Wendy and Dave are unavailable today, so I am guest chairing 00:03:47 TOPIC: Information exposure and fingerprintability 00:03:49 https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/issues/1872 00:04:44 duga: adding the name and version number to the epubReadingSystem object in js exposes additional information, which allows authors of epubs to gather more information about the user than the user may expect 00:05:10 ... there's been discussion about removing the object entirely, or specific attributes of the object 00:05:35 ... also, whether the epubReadingSystem object really exposes more information than navigator.UserAgent 00:06:03 ... i feel is is dangerous for RS to allow access to network + scripting anyway 00:06:21 ... does anyone use this information if you are publisher of scripted epub content? 00:06:24 Hard to believe so 00:06:56 mgarrish: Dave said that he had figured out that an epub was being read on an Apple device, but that was the only practical example of it being used 00:07:13 q+ 00:07:21 duga: happy to make it disappear, but we have a backwards compat issue maybe? 00:07:26 ack shiestyle 00:07:40 shiestyle: I will address our JP members in Japanese nwo 00:07:43 s/nwo/now 00:07:56 ... [in Japanese] 00:09:27 ... okay JP RS vendor, Voyager, says that their plan is to omit the epubReadingSystem object, but that this has not been done yet 00:09:40 duga: do they expose the name and version number attributes? 00:10:12 shiestyle: this is controlled by the browser, they say? 00:10:38 duga: no, we're referring specifically to the epubReadingSystem object, not the browser UserAgent object 00:11:01 ... but all of this is should territory, because it is not clear that everyone who supports scripting supports the epubReadingSystem object (even though the spec says they should) 00:11:07 navigator.epubReadingSystem.name: Thorium 00:11:16 shiestyle: so the epubReadingSystem object is provided by the RS, not by the browser? 00:11:38 duga: yes, specifically the epubReadingSystem object injected by the RS 00:11:45 s/injected by/added by 00:12:01 shiestyle: [in Japanese...] 00:12:58 ... maybe Thorium uses this object, but Voyager does not support it 00:13:15 Great! 00:13:19 duga: okay, good news then? Because there is no objection to deprecating it then 00:13:47 mgarrish: epubcheck doesn't detect this object right now, so whether or not we deprecate it probably won't majorly affect the landscape 00:14:06 duga: and we're talking here specifically about deprecating the name and version attributes, yes? 00:14:10 mgarrish: yes 00:14:28 duga: are we concerned that newer RS that omit these attributes could be fingerprinted by their absence? 00:14:42 ... i'd be happy to go ahead with deprecation still 00:15:16 Resolution: Deprecate name and version properties on the epubReadingSystem object 00:15:22 +1 00:15:24 +1 00:15:25 +1 00:15:28 +1 00:15:30 +1 00:15:31 +1 00:15:48 resolved! 00:16:05 TOPIC: Content Signing and Theft 00:16:06 Content Signing and Theft 00:16:49 duga: not 100% clear what this topic meant. I don't think we really mean 'theft' here, its probably not accurate. Assuming that this is just about content signing, does anyone have comments? 00:17:53 shiestyle: at the last Publishing group meeting, the issue was raised that with DRM being imperfect, we may want to think about digital signing to authenticate content 00:18:48 ... the purpose is to generally share ideas before we take this up with other related WG 00:20:09 duga: i'm interested in content signing for purposes of verifying the publishers, so users can tell provenance of content. I'm wary about addressing the topic of piracy 00:20:12 for example: https://iscc.codes 00:20:29 ... barring any other comments, i'm happy to take this up with the Business wg 00:20:56 shiestyle: the link above is a summary of our discussion of this topic 2-3 weeks ago 00:21:11 ... do we think some discussion about this sort of technology belongs in the epub spec? 00:21:48 mgarrish: I think this also came up through npd. #2265 was about an authenticity check 00:22:03 ... probably something we can address longer term, but maybe not in epub 3.3 00:22:04 https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/issues/2265 00:22:34 duga: right, using signing to determine if the claimed author of epub is actually who they say they are 00:22:46 q? 00:22:47 ... but i don't think we can resolve anything on this issue at this meeting 00:23:03 TOPIC: AOB? 00:23:40 mgarrish: anyone who has not responded to the use of the epub properties survey, please do so. We don't want to unnecessarily mark things as under-implemented. 00:23:57 ... please get the word out. This needs to be done to get out of CR 00:24:24 shiestyle: can you post a URL for this questionnaire? 00:24:37 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-epub-wg/2022Jun/0013.html 00:24:40 mgarrish: it was actually circulated via email. I can try to pull something up 00:24:58 ... see link above 00:25:34 duga: You can register for TPAC and get early bird pricing now 00:25:48 ... okay thank you everyone, see you all next time! 00:26:01 shiestyle: and thank you duga for volunteering to be special guest chair 00:26:09 Zakim, end meeting 00:26:09 As of this point the attendees have been toshiakikoike, MattChan, mgarrish, duga, MasakazuKitahara, shiestyle, MURATA 00:26:11 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 00:26:11 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/07/22-epub-minutes.html Zakim 00:26:14 I am happy to have been of service, duga; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye 00:26:18 Zakim has left #epub 00:40:50 duga has joined #epub 01:11:41 duga has joined #epub 01:36:35 duga has joined #epub 03:01:31 duga has joined #epub