13:27:54 RRSAgent has joined #coga 13:27:54 logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/07/07-coga-irc 13:27:56 RRSAgent, make logs public 13:27:56 Zakim has joined #coga 13:27:58 Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference 13:27:58 Date: 07 July 2022 13:29:14 agenda+ scribe sign up https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/Scribe_list 13:29:25 agenda+ updates and actions https://docs.google.com/document/d/15HtPkkYx1CIl6bAwP2nsSZKhqTVbqcuMDRz5RmtmvXg/edit#heading=h.1bvszq5s0esc also look at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1n_pV-lbgorW2oihIB4EdONOFN0EcRmBAkmUEEPdTAEw/edit# 13:31:37 agenda+ Do we want to send this survey for research planning with UXR or separately? Is there a reason to do it together (10 minutes) SHould we just share resources? See https://docs.google.com/document/d/1n_pV-lbgorW2oihIB4EdONOFN0EcRmBAkmUEEPdTAEw/edit# 13:32:26 agenda+ ICCHP schedule based on who has said they will attend, and during what times: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TO-oh_T6-ql2B-WrD1JSEyqNEZ0Kc3kvDym_3Z8nYrA/edit#heading=h.3kebfqkpxn8v who is doing what 13:32:44 agenda+ [Rain] Get consensus to make the structure survey publicly available https://forms.gle/EnzR7i76zo1TovFbA 13:33:00 agenda+ Finish functional needs review https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ndRziXRfnyAgDaL8ctByQagDdM36H8QxV44lO3u8zgc/edit# 13:33:23 agenda+ EO review sent to EO https://docs.google.com/document/d/1809gYmIMBwndPWFeENo2uMdK_96cutyivcfLa5my0aY/edit#heading=h.arbckj5wveyb 13:33:41 regrets+ EA, John K, Albert 13:50:37 agenda+ 13:50:43 agenda 13:50:54 agenda? 13:51:14 fyi mental health is next 13:57:47 ShawnT has joined #coga 13:59:58 Jennie has joined #coga 14:00:19 present+ 14:00:31 rashmi has joined #coga 14:00:41 present+ 14:00:46 aaronchu has joined #coga 14:00:46 Rain has joined #coga 14:01:01 scribe: Jennie 14:01:14 present+ 14:01:28 present+ 14:01:37 zakim , next item 14:01:43 zakim, next item 14:01:43 agendum 1 -- scribe sign up https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/Scribe_list -- taken up [from Lisa] 14:01:51 Lisa: Reminder - please sign up to scribe 14:01:56 zakim, next item 14:01:56 agendum 1 was just opened, Lisa 14:02:06 close item 1 14:02:10 Scribing guide: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Scribing_Commands_and_Related_Info 14:02:10 zakim, next item 14:02:12 agendum 2 -- updates and actions https://docs.google.com/document/d/15HtPkkYx1CIl6bAwP2nsSZKhqTVbqcuMDRz5RmtmvXg/edit#heading=h.1bvszq5s0esc also look at 14:02:12 ... https://docs.google.com/document/d/1n_pV-lbgorW2oihIB4EdONOFN0EcRmBAkmUEEPdTAEw/edit# -- taken up [from Lisa] 14:02:26 julierawe has joined #coga 14:02:34 present+ 14:02:38 present+ 14:02:45 Lisa: This a link to the actions document 14:02:46 present+ 14:03:11 Lisa: There is a table of the different subgroups. 14:03:24 ...Mental health subgroup is working on a literary review, and analysis 14:03:31 ...They also have a meeting after this call 14:03:51 Rashmi: I would like to ask Rain if she would join today's meeting. Everyone is also welcome 14:03:55 Rain: Yes. 14:04:02 Rashmi: That would be great. 14:04:26 Lisa: Rain is working on the structural review for content usable 14:04:43 ...And I saw the form that came before the meeting in an email. And we have an agenda item later in this call. 14:04:54 Rain: We are still working on getting analytics data. 14:04:58 ...Thank you to Roy 14:05:20 Roy: I spoke with staff from the W3C 14:05:31 ...Now we have all of the document published into the TR space for this year 14:05:37 ...The data for last year we don't have 14:05:47 ...The document published into the space 14:06:03 ...There is another issue - we cannot find all of the data from the Wiki page 14:06:08 ...I am still working on this 14:06:29 Rain: Regarding the structure - the survey is now built out as a survey, ready for review 14:06:40 ...Once we get the analytics information, we can start to look at what that means 14:06:43 Lisa: Thank you 14:06:47 ...Clear Language. 14:07:02 Julie: We are working on the plan. I am trying to wrap up the EO stuff so I can focus on this. 14:07:11 https://docs.google.com/document/d/15HtPkkYx1CIl6bAwP2nsSZKhqTVbqcuMDRz5RmtmvXg/edit# 14:07:21 ...We want to align on which of the Clear Language methods or patterns will work for a pass/fail test, which for a protocol 14:07:44 ...Then working in conjunction with the testing subgroup - developing a template to make a rigorous protocol 14:07:53 Lisa: Shawn and Jennie? 14:08:09 Shawn: Jennie and I are meeting tomorrow to talk about the testing subgroup. We will have more updates next week. 14:08:30 Lisa: Thank you. The research plan and strategy - we had some questions. Aron and I are co-leading for now. 14:08:44 ...The question is for Rain - do we want to send this out with your group, or separately? 14:09:05 Rain: I would suggest that we keep them separate. We want to get the feedback. We don't want to lose people. 14:09:23 ...After speaking people that are researchers - there is concern that there is already so much density to the survey 14:09:38 ...I would suggest that we chunk our surveys out into smaller bits 14:09:45 ...It will also make it easier for us to parse the data 14:09:54 Lisa: OK, does anyone object to this? 14:10:06 Aaron: I agree with this. I think it will help to be more focused for both surveys 14:10:28 Lisa: OK. Rain - we would like to share resources on how the surveys are made. Can you share that with the research planning group? 14:10:37 Rain: Yes, and I would be happy to help 14:10:52 ...I think we should keep using the tools we are already using. 14:11:02 ...And I can help socialize it with the community group as well. 14:11:22 Lisa: Images subgroup? 14:11:26 Jennie: no updates 14:11:41 Lisa: I am moving to requests from other groups. The remote meetings - that is going to CR. 14:11:51 ...We had documented issues, and Rain had put those into their github 14:11:55 :https://github.com/w3c/apa/issues/264 14:11:57 ...They closed the issue 14:12:08 ...I don't think they linked to new issues, where they opened and divided it 14:12:19 remote meeting addressed https://w3c.github.io/remote-meetings/ 14:12:26 ...I am not confident that they addressed our issues 14:12:44 ...They said they split it up, gave a list of numbers 14:12:50 : Moved to issues: 292 291 290 289 288 287 286 285 284 283 264 14:13:15 Lisa: We need to have a look at it, and see where we think they met what we were asking, where they didn't, and if we are comfortable with it 14:13:40 ...Shawn from APA is really trying to help us 14:13:44 q+ 14:13:53 ...1. We need to work on better communicating with APA 14:14:04 ...2. One of us needs to go through it, make a document like Julie did 14:14:21 ...This would make it easier than opening all the issues 14:14:27 aja next 14:14:28 Rain: I volunteer to make the document 14:14:32 ack next 14:14:38 Lisa: Fantastic! 14:14:52 ...We need to remember that they are trying. 14:15:06 ...Functional needs we are working on, and have an agenda item. The same is true for EO. 14:15:11 ...Everything else is post-poned 14:15:34 ...Any action items here - Aaron - are you stuck with any of the papers? 14:15:47 Aaron: I started with one from the Wallstreet Journal, and another 14:15:58 Lisa: We have a subgroup meeting after this, and we can go into detail after this 14:16:31 Jennie: I sent Michael C an email about the guardianship language. I have no other updates today 14:16:48 Lisa: OK. Julie, your document looked really, really good 14:16:55 ...Maybe we should look at it right now. 14:17:10 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1809gYmIMBwndPWFeENo2uMdK_96cutyivcfLa5my0aY/edit# 14:17:33 Julie: There was a really interesting suggestion - about a way to switch from the medical model to not using the medical model 14:17:53 ...Unfortunately because with this document we need to follow EO's model, and they have used a medical model on the other pages 14:18:12 ...And because EO is very focused on sticking with their templates, I don't think we can do that right now 14:18:21 Lisa: Maybe if an issue is opened, then that could be reviewed 14:18:41 Shawn: The French translation is done. We just need it reviewed by Translation 14:19:03 Lisa: One thing I added to my to-dos, on a monthly basis, I will look at announcements 14:19:16 q? 14:19:25 zakim, next item 14:19:25 agendum 3 -- Do we want to send this survey for research planning with UXR or separately? Is there a reason to do it together (10 minutes) SHould we just share resources? See 14:19:28 ... https://docs.google.com/document/d/1n_pV-lbgorW2oihIB4EdONOFN0EcRmBAkmUEEPdTAEw/edit# -- taken up [from Lisa] 14:19:34 Lē sends their regrets 14:19:48 regrets+ le 14:20:06 present+ 14:20:19 zakim, next item 14:20:19 agendum 3 was just opened, Lisa 14:20:27 close item 3 14:20:43 Rain: It would be good to share the form 14:20:50 https://forms.gle/EnzR7i76zo1TovFbA 14:21:54 Rain: We started with detail, with limited formatting options 14:22:09 ...There is a thank you, followed by information about what Making Content Usable is 14:22:39 ...There is information about COGA and the parent working groups 14:22:49 ...There is information about why we are reaching out 14:23:07 ...Then there is a section about how long it may take to complete the form 14:24:00 ...The questions have been revised with feedback from the Community Group, from Julie, and from a couple of researchers I had help me who specifically work with people with cognitive disabilities 14:24:20 ...We avoided likert scales, and tried to make sure all the answers are very straight forward, or not subjective 14:24:37 ...Depending on how you answer the questions on the 1st page, then different questions open up 14:25:22 ...At the end is a final page everyone gets 14:25:47 ...It shares other documents from the COGA group, and ask if they would be willing to have a follow up conversation 14:25:58 ...The last question is if they are willing to answer more questions about themselves 14:26:25 ...If yes, we ask about their country, their accommodations they use, if someone helped them complete the form, their age, and how long they have been involved in digital accessibility 14:26:33 q? 14:27:13 Rain: We can share information with the research group so you can do more targeted follow up 14:27:13 q+ 14:27:14 q+ 14:27:27 ack next 14:27:33 Julie: I think this looks really good 14:27:39 ...The new introducton section looks long 14:27:53 ...Would you be open to some suggestions about streamlining? It would help get to the questions faster 14:28:01 Rain: Yes, definitely open to suggestions 14:28:19 ...I was trying to follow with a group that I work with in the UK. 14:28:29 q+ to speak about setting up an introduction page 14:28:31 ...This is not exactly Easy Read, but tried to follow what they use 14:28:48 Julie: It is not about being verbose. There are some bullets that are not absolutely essential. 14:29:00 Rain: Yes please 14:29:04 ack next 14:30:47 new text: How long have you been an advocate for and/or actively involved with digital accessibility? 14:31:04 ack next 14:31:06 ShawnT, you wanted to speak about setting up an introduction page 14:31:11 Jennie: I think we need to be sure to use the word advocate 14:31:19 Rain: OK, I can update the language 14:31:32 ShawnT: I think it would be great to have this on a webpage, with a link to this form. 14:31:45 Lisa: Then people could have a more button, or jump to the form 14:31:58 q+ 14:32:05 ShawnT: That, but also the email could include the introduction, but the link could bring them directly to the questions 14:32:16 Rain: That is a good suggestion, and would help with formatting. 14:32:28 ...My concern about the recruitment process is how it is shared 14:32:40 ...Through the chain I would be worried that the webpage would get lost. 14:32:52 Shawn: Could we put a link to the introduction on the form? 14:32:57 Rain: Yes, we could 14:32:59 Jennie: +1 14:33:12 Lisa: What we don't want to do is pre-select people that can get through it 14:33:16 q? 14:33:46 ack next 14:33:48 Rashmi: In the introduction could we move the 4th bullet to the 2nd one? 14:34:10 q+ 14:34:23 +1 14:34:24 Rain: Yes, absolutely we can 14:34:42 ...Maybe Making Content Usable as the 1st bullet 14:35:00 ack next 14:35:32 Julie: In the intro, I love the section headers. Having them as questions may cause confusion by people coming to answer questions in a survey. 14:35:32 +1 14:35:42 (I had that confusion) 14:35:44 ...Maybe it is "Purpose of Making Content Usable" 14:35:57 ...Helps define that they do not need to answer those questions 14:36:03 Rain: That is great feedback - I am changing that now 14:36:29 Lisa: Do we feel comfortable that other than the suggestions made, are we comfortable with approving it and giving Rain discretion to make the changes? 14:36:32 +1 14:36:34 +1 14:36:35 +1 14:36:38 +1 14:36:42 +1 14:36:52 +1 if you are happy to aprove it if rain the intro -1, want to see the next version 14:36:56 +1 14:37:06 Lisa: OK, Rain that's fantastic 14:37:15 zakim, next item 14:37:15 agendum 4 -- ICCHP schedule based on who has said they will attend, and during what times: 14:37:17 ... https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TO-oh_T6-ql2B-WrD1JSEyqNEZ0Kc3kvDym_3Z8nYrA/edit#heading=h.3kebfqkpxn8v who is doing what -- taken up [from Lisa] 14:37:30 Lisa: The face to face meeting 14:37:35 ...It is next week 14:37:35 https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/Meetings/July-2022 14:37:49 Lisa: We need to make sure we know what is going on, and who is doing what 14:37:56 ...It is on July 12 14:38:04 ...Can we add the day of the week? 14:38:23 Rain: I am adding the day of the week right now - Tuesday 14:38:39 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TO-oh_T6-ql2B-WrD1JSEyqNEZ0Kc3kvDym_3Z8nYrA/edit# 14:39:10 Lisa: Looking at the agenda 14:39:20 ...Is everybody happy with it 14:39:27 ...And the call in information 14:39:36 ...There is different call in information than I had thought 14:39:45 ...Roy: should we use my Zoom or the normal Zoom 14:39:45 q+ 14:40:19 Rain: A 3rd option to consider could be using a Google Meet that I set up, since I am the coordinator of this particular focus 14:40:37 ....This would let me bring in people in different ways 14:40:46 Lisa: Does anyone have a concern about doing this? 14:40:50 any problem using google meet? 14:41:38 Roy: I think it is ok from the W3C 14:41:44 I've have problems with Google meet in Safari 14:41:55 ack next 14:42:00 Rain: Shawn - you and I can try to work on that separately 14:42:09 ShawnT: I have had problems with it in the passed, with Safari 14:42:19 Lisa: Do you want use to use Zoom then? 14:42:25 agenda? 14:42:40 ShawnT: I am fine using it but can get around it using a different browser 14:43:12 Lisa: OK, we will use the Google Meet, and we need to update it on both pages, and send out a reminder 14:43:27 Rain: I can do that by the end of the day tomorrow 14:43:29 Lisa: OK 14:43:32 +1 to use Google meet 14:43:38 ...We also need to send a reminder to the list 14:43:50 Lisa: We have the face to face schedule 14:44:00 ...Session 1 will most likely by just Rain and me 14:44:14 ...Session 2 a small groupw ill work on tests for Clear Language 14:44:25 ...After lunch we will look at the Structure for Content Usable 14:44:34 ...After the coffee break we will work on next steps for research 14:44:44 ...Mental health is not here because there is a panel on this on Friday 14:44:48 ...Are we ok with this schedule? 14:45:13 Are the times in EST time? 14:45:29 ...OK. The bit we are leading is on July 15, at 8am in European Time zone in mental health 14:45:38 "All times below are in Lecco, Italy time" 14:45:42 ...And one at 10:15 on Content Usable 14:45:52 Rain: I will try to use the same Google Meet for those 14:45:58 ...I hope to have multiple computers 14:46:19 Lisa: I have added information into the document 14:46:31 ...Who is doing the deck for the Making Content Usable? 14:46:39 Rain: I have it started 14:46:49 ...It is linked from the document 14:46:56 ...Feel free to make comments 14:47:12 ...David and I will be there in person. Lisa will be calling in 14:47:23 ...The deck has speaker notes 14:47:27 ...We can take turns 14:47:38 ...I think we should finish the deck before deciding who will speak about what 14:47:52 ...We got this under how mental health and accessibility intersect 14:48:05 ...Rashmi is working on those slides - starting at slide 26 14:48:12 ...We end with next steps 14:48:20 ...I will add short links 14:48:44 ...Please feel free to make comments 14:48:52 ...Don't worry about formatting 14:49:10 Lisa: I thought inclusion forums were only 10 or 20 minutes 14:49:21 Rain: Are you thinking of the poster session? We have 90 minutes for this 14:49:30 Lisa: Does the mental health group also have 90 minutes? 14:49:39 Rain: The times are on the ICCHP face to face 14:49:55 ...We have 8-9 for the Mental Health conversation we are leading 14:50:03 ...We have time to share what we are doing 14:50:10 ...And the hope is to hear about what others are doing 14:50:18 ...We have an hour for that - it is a project conversation 14:50:21 Lisa: OK, that's great 14:50:27 q+ 14:51:03 Lisa: OK Rain is taking the lead on the Content Usable deck, I am the lead on the Mental Health slide deck. Anything else we are missing? 14:51:05 q? 14:51:26 Rashmi: Should we add mental health data on the 5th slide 14:51:31 ack next 14:51:34 Rain: please feel free to make the edit 14:52:26 Jennie: please add the time zone information in the schedule section 14:52:28 zakim, next item 14:52:28 agendum 5 -- [Rain] Get consensus to make the structure survey publicly available https://forms.gle/EnzR7i76zo1TovFbA -- taken up [from Lisa] 14:52:33 Rain: Yes, and I will add it in several places 14:52:51 Lisa: Did we approve the EO draft? 14:52:51 Central European Summer Time (GMT+2) 14:52:52 topic EO draft 14:53:05 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1809gYmIMBwndPWFeENo2uMdK_96cutyivcfLa5my0aY/edit# 14:53:09 ...To me it looked really good - this is a draft that Julie made 14:53:29 ...I think we can approve it that Julie can review comments, take them at her discretion 14:53:30 I just want to document in our record that Julie has done an incredible job with this work. Thank you! 14:53:49 subject to minor adressing comments: do we aprove this 14:53:54 going to eo 14:54:13 +1 yes. -1 no, 0 is unsure 14:54:18 +1 14:54:22 +1 14:54:23 +1 14:54:29 +1 14:54:34 Jennie: +1 (because I trust Julie, but did not have time to review) 14:54:46 Thank you, Jennie, ha! 14:54:46 +1 14:54:59 Lisa: OK, that passes 14:55:12 Lisa: At the top of the hour is the mental health subgroup 14:55:16 ...Anyone can join 14:55:26 RRSAgent, publish minutes 14:55:26 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/07/07-coga-minutes.html Lisa 14:55:58 RRSAgent, make logs public 14:56:07 topic: mental health 14:56:21 Linkas: home page: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/Subgroups/Mental_Health mental health reaserch tracking: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XWmikm5Ein5CQ02knEJ5iGzO1YJMilTMBJ_aLVCTzs0/edit#heading=h.bc4vqyklmnk0 Please add your review at [Form for adding new reserch]: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeGrqJKV7RluoYrKHJN8cBJH3w9sDx7lAlAhcV0BeBTUVybkw/viewform spreadsheet with papers reviewed so far:https://docs.google.com/spr[CUT] 14:56:29 agenda+ Are we ready for ftf and tell people about 14:56:36 agenda+ pick a patttern we want to discuss 14:56:45 agenda+ Litary review questions rap up by end sept 14:56:49 Have a good week, everyone! 14:56:51 agenda+ Analsis update, Discusion (if time) 14:57:00 agenda? 14:57:19 zakim close item 5 14:57:25 zakim, close item 5 14:57:27 agendum 5, [Rain] Get consensus to make the structure survey publicly available https://forms.gle/EnzR7i76zo1TovFbA, closed 14:57:27 I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 14:57:27 6. Finish functional needs review https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ndRziXRfnyAgDaL8ctByQagDdM36H8QxV44lO3u8zgc/edit# [from Lisa] 14:57:30 zakim, close item 6 14:57:31 agendum 6, Finish functional needs review https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ndRziXRfnyAgDaL8ctByQagDdM36H8QxV44lO3u8zgc/edit#, closed 14:57:31 I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 14:57:31 7. EO review sent to EO https://docs.google.com/document/d/1809gYmIMBwndPWFeENo2uMdK_96cutyivcfLa5my0aY/edit#heading=h.arbckj5wveyb [from Lisa] 14:57:35 zakim, close item 7 14:57:35 agendum 7, EO review sent to EO https://docs.google.com/document/d/1809gYmIMBwndPWFeENo2uMdK_96cutyivcfLa5my0aY/edit#heading=h.arbckj5wveyb, closed 14:57:38 I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 14:57:38 8. Are we ready for ftf and tell people about [from Lisa] 14:57:53 zakim, close item 8 14:57:53 agendum 8, Are we ready for ftf and tell people about, closed 14:57:54 I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 14:57:54 9. pick a patttern we want to discuss [from Lisa] 14:58:23 agenda+ Litary review questions rap up by end sept 14:58:37 agenda? 15:06:39 https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1HVF1lxLPq_eBR5oeowBCJWTpqQEdzVpWXai_rSbnS5U/edit#slide=id.g13b79bdd9ba_0_20 15:12:49 zakim, close item 9 15:12:49 agendum 9, pick a patttern we want to discuss, closed 15:12:50 I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 15:12:50 10. Litary review questions rap up by end sept [from Lisa] 15:13:24 zakim, next item 15:13:25 agendum 10 -- Litary review questions rap up by end sept -- taken up [from Lisa] 15:13:39 links : home page: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/Subgroups/Mental_Health mental health reaserch tracking: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XWmikm5Ein5CQ02knEJ5iGzO1YJMilTMBJ_aLVCTzs0/edit#heading=h.bc4vqyklmnk0 Please add your review at [Form for adding new reserch]: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeGrqJKV7RluoYrKHJN8cBJH3w9sDx7lAlAhcV0BeBTUVybkw/viewform spreadsheet with papers reviewed so far:https://docs.google.com/spr[CUT] 15:21:07 q+ 16:09:55 RRSAgent, publish minutes 16:09:55 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/07/07-coga-minutes.html Lisa 16:20:30 MichaelC_ has joined #coga 16:24:12 aaronchu has joined #coga 16:30:40 aaronchu has joined #coga 17:22:50 aaronchu has joined #coga 17:39:37 aaronchu has joined #coga 17:41:47 aaronchu has joined #coga 17:44:31 aaronchu has joined #coga 17:55:08 aaronchu has joined #coga 18:00:29 aaronchu has joined #coga 18:10:57 Roy has joined #coga 18:12:28 bkardell_ has joined #coga 18:21:04 MichaelC has joined #coga 18:31:43 aaronchu has joined #coga 18:45:10 aaronchu has joined #coga 19:10:19 Roy has joined #coga 19:20:27 aaronchu has joined #coga 19:41:44 aaronchu has joined #coga 19:44:29 aaronchu has joined #coga 20:00:01 aaronchu has joined #coga 20:15:23 aaronchu has joined #coga 20:16:23 aaronchu has joined #coga 21:06:52 aaronchu has joined #coga 21:38:14 aaronchu has joined #coga 22:15:21 aaronchu has joined #coga 23:47:25 aaronchu has joined #coga