13:53:43 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wot-td
13:53:43 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/07/06-wot-td-irc
13:53:50 <kaz> meeting: WoT-WG - TD-TF
13:54:40 <Mizushima> Mizushima has joined #wot-td
14:02:39 <dape> dape has joined #wot-td
14:03:59 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Daniel_Peintner, Ege_Korkan, Michael_McCool
14:06:16 <kaz> present+ Sebastian_Kaebisch
14:07:11 <sebastian> sebastian has joined #wot-td
14:07:33 <dape> scribe: dape
14:07:52 <kaz> agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#July_6.2C_2022
14:08:07 <kaz> present+ Cristiano_Aguzzi
14:08:20 <dape> TOPIC: Review draft minutes
14:08:34 <cris> cris has joined #wot-td
14:08:38 <dape> -> Jun 29 -> https://www.w3.org/2022/06/29-wot-td-minutes.html
14:10:12 <kaz> present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima
14:10:51 <dape> <Sebastian walking over draft minutes>
14:12:12 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
14:12:16 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:12:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/07/06-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:12:52 <kaz> chair: Sebastian
14:13:09 <dape> SK: Minutes look good. Any objections/concerns?
14:13:17 <dape> ... none -> minutes approved
14:13:52 <dape> TOPIC: TD
14:14:27 <dape> SUBTOPIC: PR # 1560 Update assertions.csv for testing
14:14:36 <dape> ... -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1560
14:14:47 <dape> EK: Automatic one..
14:15:35 <kaz> s/... ->/->/
14:15:40 <dape> ... IPR issue, but we can ignore... I think
14:15:55 <dape> SK: Looks good
14:16:42 <dape> ... merging
14:17:09 <dape> SUBTOPIC: PR # 1561 More in values for apikey security scheme
14:17:13 <dape> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1561/
14:17:38 <dape> EK: adding cookie, auto, and uri in both JSON schemas
14:17:48 <dape> MMC: Looks good
14:17:59 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minute
14:17:59 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'draft minute', kaz.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
14:18:04 <kaz> s/rrsagent, draft minute//
14:18:06 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:18:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/07/06-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:18:09 <dape> SK: Merging
14:18:37 <dape> SUBTOPIC: PR # 1562 remove metadata from example ids
14:18:43 <dape> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1562
14:19:18 <dape> EK: removed metadata.. in ids
14:19:40 <dape> ... used online tool to generate v4 ids
14:19:51 <dape> MMC: Looks good
14:20:06 <dape> SK: Merging
14:20:34 <cris> q+
14:20:47 <dape> SUBTOPIC: PR # 1549 Add husky pre-commit for rendering
14:20:52 <dape> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1549
14:21:11 <dape> EK: Looks good
14:21:27 <dape> CA: does not fix  #883
14:21:38 <dape> ... it does local rendering
14:21:48 <dape> ... should prevent some errors
14:23:04 <dape> SK: Try to resolve conflict
14:23:08 <dape> ... done
14:23:15 <dape> SK: Merging..
14:23:31 <kaz> i|#883|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/883 Issue 883 - Automate running TD rendering script|
14:23:33 <dape> CA: reminder.. everyone has to do "npm install"
14:23:39 <dape> ... it is in readme
14:23:52 <dape> s/it is in readme/it is mentioned in readme
14:24:02 <dape> TOPIC: Issues
14:24:21 <Ege> q+
14:25:09 <kaz> s/install"/install" at the root folder of the repository./
14:25:13 <dape> SUBTOPIC: Issue # 875  Should it be possible to indicate whether writing a property returns set value?
14:25:18 <dape> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/875
14:25:25 <dape> SK: Older topic
14:25:45 <dape> ... what is getting back from server when writing...
14:25:56 <dape> ... some implementations echo value
14:26:14 <dape> ... some don't respond
14:26:40 <dape> EK: It is in the spec now...
14:26:49 <dape> ... using additionalResponses
14:27:03 <dape> ... not elegant.. but should work
14:27:05 <dape> q+
14:27:18 <cris> q+
14:28:07 <kaz> q+
14:28:12 <dape> ... maybe we should it fix it "properly" in next version
14:28:15 <kaz> ack e
14:28:26 <dape> CA: Agree with Ege...
14:28:40 <dape> ... wondering about response vs additionalResponses
14:28:58 <kaz> ack c
14:29:32 <dape> SK: not sure about additionalResponses and when to use it
14:29:38 <kaz> -> https://w3c.github.io/wot-thing-description/#sec-op-data-schema-mapping 5.3.4.2.1 Mapping op Values to Data Schemas
14:29:44 <dape> ... using it for errors?
14:29:55 <kaz> s|-> https://w3c.github.io/wot-thing-description/#sec-op-data-schema-mapping 5.3.4.2.1 Mapping op Values to Data Schemas||
14:30:05 <kaz> i|not sure|-> 5.3.4.2.1 Mapping op Values to Data Schemas|
14:32:24 <cris> q+
14:32:30 <kaz> -> https://w3c.github.io/wot-profile/#http-baseline-profile-protocol-binding-writeproperty WoT Profile - 6.2.3.1.2 writeproperty
14:32:38 <dape> DP: not sure what profile does.. expect return value
14:32:46 <dape> SK: Changed it.. no value anymore
14:32:50 <dape> ack dape
14:33:06 <cris> ack c (I was about to suggest this schema addition to response too :) )
14:33:12 <cris> ack c
14:33:27 <dape> EK: properly fixing it needs a way to group response & requests for each type of affordance
14:34:05 <dape> Kaz: We should think about potential impact of 1.1 change
14:34:20 <dape> ... when it comes to existing implementations
14:34:59 <dape> ... if it is difficult to fix it at the moment,  postpone for future version
14:35:11 <dape> SK: Yes, clarify it in next version
14:35:59 <kaz> ack k
14:36:11 <dape> Kaz: Consistency check between TD and profile spec might be also useful
14:36:24 <kaz> s/of 1.1 change/of 1.1 changes to the WoT implementers./
14:36:48 <dape> SUBTOPIC: Issue # 878 Describing initial connection
14:36:52 <dape> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/878
14:36:55 <kaz> s/WoT implementers./WoT implementers/
14:37:06 <dape> SK: Some protocols need setup
14:37:45 <dape> ... discussed a lot...
14:37:59 <kaz> s/postpone for future version/could postpone it to the future version, but should describe the issue as an Editor's note./
14:39:05 <dape> ... but I think it is difficult to solve it in version 1.x
14:39:39 <dape> ... I suggest to defer to version 2.0
14:40:36 <cris> +1
14:42:33 <dape>  SUBTOPIC: Issue # 888 Should writing to an observable property trigger new values being pushed
14:42:38 <dape> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/888
14:42:58 <dape> EK: I think we should say there is no such guarantee
14:43:40 <dape> ... writing should cause new value pushed..
14:43:55 <dape> ... but this is something a developer needs to do in scripting...
14:44:01 <dape> ... or might come later
14:44:08 <dape> CA: Or the value can be lost...
14:44:25 <dape> EK: Need to do a PR.
14:44:33 <dape> ... will be non-normative
14:46:10 <dape> SUBTOPIC: Issue # 892  HTTP Binding for providing historical events
14:46:17 <dape> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/892
14:46:33 <dape> SK: We kind of gave up
14:46:43 <dape> .... I think Mozilla WebThings has support for it
14:46:53 <dape> ... but don't think this in profile
14:47:03 <dape> ... so far we do not have generic approach
14:47:36 <dape> EK: should definitely to that in next charter
14:47:54 <dape> CA: +1
14:48:33 <dape> EK: Might also consider storing property value for an entire day
14:48:43 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
14:48:46 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:48:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/07/06-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:48:48 <dape> MMC: Historical data should be in next charter
14:49:09 <dape> SK: Okay, will label it accordingly
14:49:42 <dape> SUBTOPIC: Issue # 68  how to find the Form pair for an operation, e.g. the unsubscribe Form for a given subscribe Form
14:49:46 <dape> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/968
14:50:55 <kaz> s/Issue # 68/Issue #968/
14:50:57 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:50:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/07/06-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:51:27 <dape> DP: How to find "correct" unsubscribe
14:51:42 <dape> CA: node-wot tries it in best effort approach
14:51:52 <dape> ... protocol counts most etc
14:52:24 <dape> SK: My feeling: depends on how the servient is setup
14:52:36 <dape> ... might work... but doesn't need to work
14:53:11 <dape> ... don't think we should make any assumption in TD spec
14:53:49 <dape> EK: Examples in node-wot for examples... have HTTP and CoAP
14:54:24 <dape> ... could to subscribe on HTTP and unsubribe on CoAP
14:55:08 <McCool> McCool has joined #wot-td
14:55:13 <dape> CA: not sure if there is a good use-case
14:55:16 <McCool> q+
14:55:30 <dape> EK: Agree
14:55:36 <dape> ... seems like an Edge case
14:56:05 <dape> MMC: Profile defines payload.. unsubscribe should be in
14:56:16 <kaz> q+
14:56:17 <dape> EK: VERY webhook-like
14:56:30 <dape> MMC: I guess we need to leave this up to the implementation
14:56:33 <dape> ... no simple fix
14:56:36 <dape> q?
14:56:39 <kaz> ack m
14:56:53 <dape> Kaz: Agree with McCool
14:57:09 <dape> ... we should invite Zoltan (and maybe also MLagally)
14:57:32 <dape> DP: Don't think this is a pressing issue
14:57:43 <dape> Kaz: Okay, then lets postpone
14:57:56 <dape> SK: Okay.. let's defer
14:59:34 <kaz> s/lets postpone/let's postpone this issue, but we should involve Zoltan and Lagally when we have further discussion./
14:59:51 <kaz> q?
14:59:52 <kaz> ack k
14:59:58 <kaz> q+
15:00:31 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1517
15:00:48 <dape> SUBTOPIC: Static version for TD
15:01:17 <dape> Kaz: Copied resources  in 4-wd directory
15:01:27 <dape> ... we can also move instead of copy
15:01:29 <dape> q+
15:01:33 <kaz> ack k
15:01:41 <dape> SK: fine by me
15:03:00 <dape> DP: Didn't get why we changed to WD
15:03:12 <dape> Kaz: It is updated WD not CR itself
15:04:15 <dape> SK: Want to wait ... need more/better test results
15:04:38 <kaz> s/wait/wait for the CR publication until August./
15:05:17 <dape> TOPIC: Protocol Bindings
15:05:55 <kaz> s/  in 4-wd directory/ from "4-cr" directory to "4-wd" directory/
15:06:09 <dape> SUBTOPIC: PR #164 Change mjkoster to invited expert
15:06:13 <dape> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/164
15:06:51 <dape> EK: We agreed  on changing M. Kosters affiliation to invited expert
15:07:06 <kaz> q+
15:07:06 <dape> ... objections?
15:07:10 <dape> SK: Looks good
15:07:11 <dape> ack dape
15:07:21 <dape> Kaz: Change itself is fine
15:07:39 <dape> ... Farshid would like to mention "former" affiliation
15:07:50 <dape> ... did you check with Michael Koster
15:08:06 <dape> MK: No objection
15:08:12 <dape> ... invited expert is fine
15:09:02 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:09:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/07/06-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:09:36 <dape> EK: Can add SmartThings as former affiliation
15:09:50 <dape> ... it is in older documents
15:09:57 <kaz> present+ Michael_Koster
15:10:00 <dape> ... proceed with merging
15:10:22 <dape> SUBTOPIC: Other PRs
15:10:35 <dape> EK: Not ready yet, like #156
15:10:43 <kaz> s/Farshid/Sometimes some of the Invited Experts/
15:10:57 <dape> TOPIC: Testing call
15:11:03 <kaz> s/affiliation/affiliation in addition to "Invited Expert"./
15:11:11 <dape> EK: noticed issue in testing call
15:11:17 <kaz> s/with Michael Koster/with Michael Koster?/
15:11:22 <dape> ... see # 1563
15:11:37 <kaz> s/invited expert is fine/just saying "Invited Expert" is fine./
15:11:49 <dape> ... https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1563
15:12:05 <dape> ... it is about the hash sign
15:12:48 <dape> ... some libraries don't accept #
15:13:12 <dape> SK: Strange...
15:13:18 <kaz> s/... https/-> https/
15:13:35 <sebastian> https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-handrews-json-schema-00.html#rfc.section.9.2
15:13:47 <kaz> s/1563/1563 Issue 1563 - Wrong format for tm:required in examples/
15:14:22 <dape> SK: # used in JSON schema
15:14:39 <kaz> s/ # / "#" /
15:14:50 <dape> EK: it speaks about uri-encoded JSON pointers
15:16:11 <kaz> -> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc6901 RFC 6901 - JavaScript Object Notation (JSON) Pointer
15:16:39 <dape> MMC: adds implications whether we need to URI encode it
15:17:06 <dape> ... we just need local references, no URI
15:17:25 <dape> EK: This would mean we need to fix all examples
15:17:36 <dape> ... removing the hash sign
15:17:52 <dape> MMC: Correct, seems like a bug in the examples
15:18:14 <kaz> s/all examples/all the examples/
15:18:37 <kaz> q+
15:18:59 <dape> Kaz: I am OK with fixing the examples
15:19:21 <dape> ... what was our original intention?
15:19:59 <dape> SK: Need to fix examples if they are not compliant
15:20:13 <dape> Kaz: no impact on existing implementations?
15:20:17 <dape> EK: Correct
15:20:37 <dape> ... I don't think this is critical
15:20:48 <Ege> q?
15:20:50 <Ege> ack k
15:21:28 <dape> EK: FYI: Next week Sebastian is not available. I will moderate
15:22:01 <kaz> i/FYI/topic: AOB/
15:22:04 <kaz> [adjourned]
15:22:08 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:22:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/07/06-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
17:22:22 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wot-td