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13:45:37 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/06/30-pcg-a11y-irc
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13:46:01 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, this will be pcg-a11y
13:46:01 <Zakim> ok, AvneeshSingh
13:46:15 <AvneeshSingh> present+
13:46:22 <AvneeshSingh> chair: AvneeshSingh
13:47:51 <AvneeshSingh> agenda+ Update from accessibility summary guidance document sub task force:
13:48:07 <AvneeshSingh> agenda+ Update from MARC cross walk sub task force:
13:48:25 <AvneeshSingh> agenda+ Calls in mid July to mid August holidays period?
13:48:37 <AvneeshSingh> agenda+ Any other business.
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14:01:11 <gpellegrino> present+
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14:02:03 <Gautier> present+
14:02:07 <zheng_xu> present+
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14:02:28 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, next agendum
14:02:28 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Update from accessibility summary guidance document sub task force: -- taken up [from AvneeshSingh]
14:02:31 <Madeleine> Madeleine has joined #pcg-a11y
14:02:31 <MURATA> present+
14:02:33 <Naomi_> Naomi_ has joined #pcg-a11y
14:02:34 <GeorgeK> present+
14:02:36 <Madeleine> present+
14:02:43 <Naomi_> present+
14:02:44 <AvneeshSingh> https://w3c.github.io/publ-a11y/drafts/schema-a11y-summary/
14:02:52 <Chrisoliver> Present+
14:03:50 <AvneeshSingh> Issue #2116
14:03:52 <AvneeshSingh> https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/issues/2116
14:03:54 <ccarr> present+
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14:04:08 <CharlesL1> present+
14:05:55 <AvneeshSingh> q?
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14:06:15 <gpellegrino> q+
14:06:37 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
14:06:54 <gpellegrino> scribe+
14:06:57 <CharlesL1> q+
14:06:58 <Gautier> q+
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14:07:07 <CharlesL1> issue found here: https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/issues/2116#issuecomment-1170458128
14:07:22 <CharlesL1> q?
14:08:07 <gpellegrino> GeorgeK: there are concerns about adding Accessibility Summary on thousands of ebooks in Europe
14:08:29 <gpellegrino> ... plus the possible inconsistency between the machine readable metadata and the accessibility summary which is free text
14:08:42 <AvneeshSingh> ack charl
14:09:42 <gpellegrino> CharlesL1: from Bennetech: for our certification program, we ask publishers and vendors to add it, it's been controversial
14:10:36 <gpellegrino> ... my view is that the accessibility summary is a field where to had additional information on the accessibility of the book (email address, specific works, etc.)
14:10:50 <gpellegrino> ... I think we'll continue to suggest to use this field
14:10:58 <AvneeshSingh> ack gaut
14:11:47 <gpellegrino> Gautier: in the accessibility summary guidelines I've read "in some times this is the only information that will be displayed to the enduser"
14:12:19 <gpellegrino> AvneeshSingh: some retailers may pickup only the accessibility summary and display it
14:12:26 <GeorgeK> q+
14:12:48 <gpellegrino> Gautier: I think it is inconsistent with the UX guidelines for display accessibility metadata
14:13:04 <gpellegrino> ... I think we have to be more clear on this topic
14:13:15 <ccarr> q+
14:13:22 <AvneeshSingh> ack geo
14:13:26 <gpellegrino> ... in my view we should push to adopt the UX display guidelines
14:13:55 <CharlesL1> q+
14:14:12 <gpellegrino> GeorgeK: very good point, we should incourage to display all the accessibility metadata
14:14:37 <gpellegrino> ... but I have concerns about the industry implementing our guidelines
14:14:38 <gpellegrino> q+
14:15:14 <gpellegrino> ... at the same time accessibility summary can add some information that cannot be expressed in other metadata
14:17:05 <gpellegrino> ... for example the presence of the extended description is something that should be added in the accessibility summary
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14:18:55 <gpellegrino> ... I have to work on the table in the document and maybe remove the sentence that Gaurhier cited
14:18:58 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
14:19:24 <gpellegrino> ccarr: we think that the accessibility summary is important for libraries
14:19:45 <gpellegrino> ... and not to check in different places
14:20:47 <gpellegrino> GeorgeK: have you reviewed the UX guidelines?
14:22:10 <gpellegrino> ccarr: at this time there is no way in the library system to manage all the accessibility metadata
14:22:32 <zheng_xu> q+
14:22:43 <gpellegrino> AvneeshSingh: if we make the accessibility summary option, does this affect you?
14:22:45 <CharlesL1> https://www.w3.org/2021/09/UX-Guide-metadata-1.0/principles/
14:23:11 <gpellegrino> ccarr: Ideally for the user I think it would be best to have it
14:23:33 <CharlesL1> q?
14:23:39 <AvneeshSingh> ack charl
14:24:04 <gpellegrino> CharlesL1: the conforms to is not a requirement, I think it is a SHOULD
14:25:07 <gpellegrino> ... from a developer point of view, it is super simple to manage the accessibility summary, instead of managing all the metadata
14:26:00 <Naomi_> q+
14:26:01 <GeorgeK> q+
14:26:42 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
14:29:28 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
14:30:06 <gpellegrino> gpellegrino: maybe having a focus with librarians would help, maybe the accessibility summary can be generated my libraries starting from machine readable metadata
14:30:42 <gpellegrino> ... also a question: if the accessibility summary and the machine readable metadata are inconsistent who wins?
14:31:28 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
14:32:05 <gpellegrino> zheng_xu: I think maybe is not the right time for making accessibility summary mandatory
14:33:10 <gpellegrino> Naomi_: thinking about the backlist, thousands of ebooks, I think that creating automatic accessibility metadata can be quite simples (e.g. page list)
14:34:24 <gpellegrino> ... creating accessibility summary is quite expensive, also for maintaining, if we want to change modify the free text in the future, it is very complicated to update it automatically
14:35:02 <gpellegrino> GeorgeK: this document aims to provide the guidelines to publishers on what to put in accessibility summary
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14:35:45 <gpellegrino> ... I think there are marketing opportunities in this free text metadata
14:36:23 <gpellegrino> AvneeshSingh: I'll copy-paste this minutes in the issue tracker
14:37:11 <gpellegrino> ... and ask other feedback from the WG
14:37:16 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, next agendum
14:37:16 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, AvneeshSingh
14:37:27 <CharlesL1> q?
14:37:27 <AvneeshSingh> q?
14:37:36 <AvneeshSingh> ack geo
14:37:43 <gpellegrino> ack GeorgeK
14:38:45 <AvneeshSingh> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Lh0TwYHg574WFvdIAB1-Pns3fF7oSCjD/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=110044170227731414177&rtpof=true&sd=truezakim, next agendum
14:39:00 <gpellegrino> Chrisolver: I think one concern on the library staff is the correctly wording
14:39:08 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, next agendum
14:39:08 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Update from MARC cross walk sub task force: -- taken up [from AvneeshSingh]
14:39:15 <gpellegrino> ... we've published a draft of the crosswalk
14:39:58 <gpellegrino> ... our proposal is to add a paragraph telling that it is a preliminary version of the document
14:40:21 <gpellegrino> ... in the library world we are not ready to make decitions
14:40:50 <gpellegrino> ... so we'll integrate the feedback we've got, and the move it to GitHub
14:40:51 <AvneeshSingh> q?
14:41:03 <gpellegrino> ... I think we can do it in July
14:42:22 <gpellegrino> ... so if there'll be relevant changes in our domain, we'll get back on the document for changing it
14:42:57 <gpellegrino> AvneeshSingh: do you think we can start to review the document or do we wait the move to GitHub?
14:43:04 <AvneeshSingh> q?
14:43:13 <gpellegrino> Chrisolver: both for us is fine
14:43:30 <gpellegrino> AvneeshSingh: the Google Docs has problems with accessibility
14:43:59 <gpellegrino> ... in any case before publishing the document we'll have one or two months for reviewing it
14:44:11 <gpellegrino> Chrisolver: it may also take more time
14:45:02 <AvneeshSingh> q?
14:45:43 <AvneeshSingh> q?
14:45:49 <gpellegrino> Gautier: I can help in moving the document to GitHub
14:46:35 <AvneeshSingh> q?
14:46:58 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, next agendum
14:46:58 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Calls in mid July to mid August holidays period? -- taken up [from AvneeshSingh]
14:47:27 <AvneeshSingh> q?
14:47:36 <gpellegrino> AvneeshSingh: what are your ideas for having calls during the holidays?
14:48:30 <AvneeshSingh> q?
14:49:22 <gpellegrino> Maybe a call on the fourth week of July
14:49:31 <gpellegrino> I'll send the calendar invite
14:49:39 <gpellegrino> ... AOB
14:49:39 <AvneeshSingh> q?
14:51:02 <AvneeshSingh> rrsagent, make logs public
14:51:38 <AvneeshSingh> rrsagent, make minutes
14:51:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/06/30-pcg-a11y-minutes.html AvneeshSingh
15:01:12 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, leave
15:01:12 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been AvneeshSingh, gpellegrino, Gautier, zheng_xu, MURATA, GeorgeK, Madeleine, Naomi_, Chrisoliver, ccarr, CharlesL
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