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11:56:13 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/06/21-wot-uc-irc
11:57:06 <kaz> meeting: WoT/DTDL
11:57:21 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_McCool
11:57:21 <kaz> chair: McCool
11:59:05 <kaz> present+ Christian_Glomb, Jack_Dickinson
11:59:49 <kaz> present+ Tetsushi_Matsuda
12:00:02 <kaz> present+ Michael_Koster, Philipp_Blum
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12:01:27 <kaz> present+ Ari_Keranen
12:01:41 <kaz> present+ Kunihiko_Toumura
12:02:13 <kaz> present+ Erich_Barnstedt
12:02:40 <kaz> present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima
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12:03:15 <kaz> topic: Digital Twins Definition Language
12:03:24 <kaz> present+ Sebastian_Kaebisch
12:03:30 <kaz> present+ Jan_Romann
12:03:45 <kaz> present+ Michael_Lagally, Ryuichi_Matsukura
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12:03:51 <kaz> zakim, who is on the call?
12:03:51 <Zakim> Present: Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_McCool, Christian_Glomb, Jack_Dickinson, Tetsushi_Matsuda, Michael_Koster, Philipp_Blum, Ari_Keranen, Kunihiko_Toumura, Erich_Barnstedt,
12:03:54 <Zakim> ... Tomoaki_Mizushima, Sebastian_Kaebisch, Jan_Romann, Michael_Lagally, Ryuichi_Matsukura
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12:04:44 <kaz> @@@ link later
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12:06:34 <kaz> present+ Matthias_Kovatsch
12:07:02 <mlagally> scribenick: mlagally
12:07:07 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/Consortium/Patent-Policy-20200915/ W3C Patent Policy 2020 for the WoT IG
12:07:31 <cris_> cris_ has joined #wot-uc
12:07:31 <kaz> present+ Cristiano_Aguzzi
12:07:31 <mlagally> DTDL is a Microsoft private invention, not a standard
12:07:50 <kaz> s/DTDL/eb: DTDL/
12:07:58 <mlagally> ... initial conversations with digital twin consortium, in the process to standardize and create an ecosystem
12:08:15 <mlagally> ... some companies use it for products. Microsoft uses it.
12:08:57 <mlagally> ... devices can be preregistered and predefined - when a device is connecting to the cloud they can be discovered and used right away
12:09:36 <mlagally> ... as Microsoft developed Azure digital twins we needed to model devices and relations between assets, people, places and things
12:09:42 <mlagally> ... needed a hierarchy
12:10:10 <mlagally> ... We also wanted to create a developer API to be used - described in a separate spec
12:10:31 <mlagally> ... topology representation is very similar to property graphs
12:11:27 <mlagally> ... we have extension points for 3D models, physics and more
12:11:52 <mlagally> ... digital twin service has a query interface - enables rich queries on topology graph
12:12:25 <mlagally> ... we can attach external compute to do calculation on property changes
12:13:17 <mlagally> ... we created a few domial specific ontologies, e.g. Wind parks, smart grids, factory use, Platform I4.0 administration shell
12:13:50 <mlagally> ... once vocabulary and ontology are available, you can create a property grah and queries
12:14:03 <mlagally> ... other use case is plug and play for IoT devices
12:14:37 <mlagally> ... following a similar approach with limited vocabulary, descriptions can be distributed and used
12:14:47 <mlagally> ... we have some open source models available
12:15:01 <mlagally> ... when model is defined, you can create instances
12:15:16 <mlagally> ... DTDL distinguishes between types and instances
12:15:28 <mlagally> ... we open-sourced DTDL and a parser
12:16:05 <mlagally> ... we try to build an ecosystem and help interested parties to get started
12:16:31 <mlagally> ... target to get adoption through consortia and open source initiatives
12:16:48 <sebastian> q+
12:17:16 <mlagally> ... DTDL metamodel is RDF based, we are programming language agnostic
12:17:25 <mlagally> ... using JSON-LD
12:17:53 <mlagally> ... The API spec is implemented by digital twin service, published and can be used by others
12:18:18 <mlagally> ... can be used for uploading DTDL ontologies, usual CRUD operations and a query API
12:18:35 <mlagally> ... integrates with time-series store
12:19:28 <mlagally> ... other services that use DTDL or plug&play device are IoTHub and IoT Central
12:19:58 <mlagally> ... we have a way to export and import DTDL
12:21:14 <mlagally> ... Simple DTDL example: an interface with a property, telemetry for temperature (time series) and a command
12:21:19 <cris_> q+
12:21:46 <mlagally> ... currently version 2 has been published, we are working on version 3. Versions are backwards compatible
12:22:01 <McCool> q+
12:22:36 <mlagally> mmc: do you have events?
12:22:42 <kaz> ack mc
12:23:30 <kaz> q?
12:23:32 <mlagally> eb: mapped to a property and you can have property updates - or mapped to a telemetry
12:24:23 <mlagally> sk: q on domain ontolgies: are they public? how are they bound to DTDL? Can they be used independently
12:24:53 <mlagally> eb: they are published on github, are tightly coupled, search for dtdl ontologies on github
12:25:20 <mlagally> ... energy distribution, smart cities, real estate
12:25:51 <mlagally> ...we have others as well, e.g. one for wind parks that is maintained by the digital twin consortium
12:26:17 <mlagally> ... there are typically using/referencing other standards
12:26:53 <mlagally> ca: we can map commands to WoT actions - what are the assumptions? Do you support sync and async actions?
12:27:14 <mlagally> eb: you can do both - some systems use sync, others use async
12:27:14 <kaz> -> https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/digital-twins/ Azure Digital Twins Documentation
12:27:14 <mlagally> q?
12:27:22 <mlagally> aks seb
12:27:22 <McCool> ack s
12:27:23 <cris_> ack c
12:27:49 <mlagally> eb: components are basically instances
12:28:01 <mlagally> ... relationships between instances
12:28:08 <mlagally> ... inheritance and semantic types
12:28:28 <kaz> i|components|-> https://github.com/Azure/opendigitaltwins-dtdl DTDL GitHub repo
12:28:39 <mlagally> ... (shows an example of complex types)
12:28:46 <mlagally> ... like a struct in C
12:29:01 <McCool> q+
12:29:13 <mlagally> ... a schema for a complex type for rotation (roll, pitch, yaw)
12:29:35 <mlagally> ... most OPC-UA types in companion specs are complex types
12:29:43 <mlagally> ... we need it for mapping
12:29:48 <kaz> q+
12:29:51 <kaz> ack m
12:29:58 <mlagally> mmc: we are talking with spatioal data on the web and OGC
12:30:09 <McCool> ack m
12:30:21 <sebastian> q+
12:30:27 <mlagally> eb: there's a need for it, also for arrays
12:30:43 <mlagally> ... you need several types to be bundled
12:31:32 <mlagally> kaz: we are talking with IEC as well, try to achieve a global standard
12:31:55 <mlagally> eb: IEC would be good, we also talk with OASIS
12:32:13 <kaz> ack k
12:32:15 <McCool> q+
12:32:19 <mlagally> ... we start with a coalition of the willing, it is a precursor to standard
12:32:32 <mlagally> ... need an ecosystem and critical mass for adoption
12:32:45 <kaz> s/global standard/global standard for IoT vocabulary definition/
12:32:47 <mlagally> ... we decided to wait for critical mass
12:33:18 <mlagally> sk: is this type definition based on an existing standard, or defined specifically for DTDL
12:33:42 <mlagally> eb: we do not rely on JSON schema
12:34:10 <mlagally> q?
12:34:13 <mlagally> ack s
12:34:21 <McCool> ack m
12:35:05 <mlagally> eb: units are an important concept, we define a bunch of them and add new ones as needed
12:35:22 <mlagally> ... they help to interpret the data and visualize
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12:35:41 <mlagally> ... we have inheritance concept - very similar to programming languages
12:36:17 <mlagally> ... we have a base class and extend it
12:36:17 <mlagally> q?
12:37:12 <mlagally> ml: multi inheritance? namespaces?
12:37:24 <mlagally> eb: no multi inheritance - top level namespace
12:37:42 <mlagally> eb: tools: DTDL parser, can be used for validation
12:38:24 <mlagally> ... we heavily invest in digital twin explorer, can be used to interact with the model, run queries
12:38:47 <mlagally> ... you can display the twin graph, read properties
12:39:13 <mlagally> ... (example from digital twin consortium)
12:39:36 <mlagally> ... model of an automotive production line
12:40:03 <mlagally> ... several MES, a simulation
12:40:31 <mlagally> ... 8 production lines, 3 stations each with telemetry
12:40:31 <kaz> -> https://github.com/digitaltwinconsortium/ManufacturingDTDLOntologies Manufacturing Ontologies
12:40:56 <kaz> s/Manu/Digital Twin Consortium - Manu/
12:42:21 <mlagally> ... we integrate with OPC-UA, this ais a better integration concept than mapping
12:42:55 <mlagally> ... (shows a dashboard with predictions and anomalies)
12:43:15 <mlagally> ... OEE - Operational effectiveness calculation based on the simulation
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12:44:17 <dezell> present+ David_Ezell
12:44:21 <mlagally> ... we can query the model and get the twin graph and caluclate the OEE for each production line and get the overall OEE
12:45:21 <mlagally> q+
12:45:55 <glomb> q+
12:45:58 <kaz> q+
12:46:00 <mlagally> ml: the query language - standard or proprietary?
12:46:28 <mlagally> eb: proprietary, similar to SQL, called KQL, open sourced
12:46:47 <mlagally> ... customers can use their query language and we can do a mapping to it
12:47:55 <mlagally> ... I can select a MES node and display the properties
12:48:26 <McCool> q?
12:48:33 <mlagally> ack m
12:49:23 <mlagally> ... You can create a new twin using the UI and connect it to the existing model via relationships
12:50:19 <mlagally> cg: can we have an example of a federated query, e.g. give me all rooms with a certain temperature and ...
12:50:34 <mlagally> eb: this is basically a join
12:50:53 <mlagally> cg: do you access 2 dbs for that, time series and metadata?
12:52:01 <mlagally> eb: we use a single database Kosmos DB, you can do a join to put different queries together
12:52:08 <sebastian> ack gl
12:52:08 <sebastian> q?
12:52:18 <McCool> q+
12:52:33 <mlagally> cg: precondition that temperature values are time series
12:52:37 <mlagally> eb: yes
12:53:06 <mlagally> kaz: did you already talk with ** about automotive ontologies
12:53:15 <sebastian> q+
12:53:23 <McCool> ack k
12:53:52 <mlagally> eb: rather than interacting with partners 1:1, we started with manufacturing onologies.
12:54:21 <mlagally> kaz: we have sessions in TPAC on collaborations on that, would like to invite you to that
12:54:24 <mlagally> mmc: next steps?
12:54:27 <mlagally> q?
12:55:15 <mlagally> sk: we have a similar concept in the thing description - do you think DTDL version 3 will be aligned?
12:55:38 <mlagally> eb: 3.0 is already almost complete, we work with customers already
12:55:45 <kaz> s/have sessions/are planning to organize a session/
12:56:13 <kaz> s/organize a session/organize a breakout session/
12:56:20 <mlagally> ... we can align in the future - start this conversation now, define a mapping, identify gaps
12:56:40 <mlagally> mmc: short term goal is to aim for interop
12:56:59 <mlagally> eb: if customers come with a TD we could have a tool for automatic mapping
12:57:00 <kaz> q?
12:57:02 <kaz> q+
12:57:17 <mlagally> ... I created a similar tool for OPC-UA, > 1Mio downloads
12:57:32 <mlagally> ... mapping is not losless
12:57:57 <mlagally> ... we could create a new tool that does something similar
12:58:20 <mlagally> mmc: goals for TPAC, come out with input for our new charter
12:58:41 <mlagally> ... we should focus on that. We will do breaking changes in 2.0 version.
12:59:09 <mlagally> ... There's more opportunity to align with your version 4.0
12:59:33 <mlagally> eb: we could use an existing task force to try out a mapping
13:00:01 <mlagally> mmc: this could be a project - we could target a plug fest
13:00:15 <mlagally> ... currently we are working on the release
13:00:28 <kaz> q?
13:00:30 <kaz> ack mc
13:00:39 <McCool> ack m
13:01:37 <mlagally> ml: we could benefit from input from Microsoft
13:02:29 <mlagally> s/Microsoft/Microsoft in the profile TF/
13:02:53 <mlagally> mmc: we should schedule one call befor TPAC to plan for plugfest / TPAC
13:03:02 <mlagally> ... should have a follow up call
13:03:30 <mlagally> eb: I just sent the deck via email
13:03:52 <mlagally> mmc: we can use this call slot in 3-4 weeks for a follow-up.
13:04:23 <mlagally> kaz: japanese guys work on integration of DTDL and WoT, this could be in a plugfest
13:05:04 <kaz> [adjourned]
13:05:10 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
13:05:29 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:05:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/06/21-wot-uc-minutes.html kaz