11:50:40 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wcag3-protocols
11:50:41 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/06/10-wcag3-protocols-irc
11:51:18 <Jaunita_George> zakim, start meeting
11:51:18 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
11:51:19 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), Jaunita_George
11:52:01 <Jaunita_George> meeting: AGWG-2022-06-10
11:52:11 <Jaunita_George> chair: Jaunita George
11:52:49 <Jaunita_George> agenda+ Review/edit consensus table (30 minutes)
11:52:59 <Jaunita_George> Agenda+ Work on a more final single proposal (30 minutes)
11:53:15 <Jaunita_George>  Rrsagent, make logs world
11:53:46 <ShawnT> ShawnT has joined #wcag3-protocols
11:54:04 <ShawnT> Is today the 8AM meeting?
11:54:20 <ShawnT> Perfect, thank you
11:54:24 <ShawnT> talk soon
11:54:48 <JF> JF has joined #wcag3-protocols
11:54:54 <JF> agenda?
11:55:02 <JF> Present+
11:56:17 <Jaunita_George> Present+
11:56:23 <Jaunita_George> zakim, take up item 1
11:56:23 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Review/edit consensus table (30 minutes) -- taken up [from Jaunita_George]
11:56:43 <Jaunita_George> Consensus Proposal: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1twjaSude_5-1VdpFKPX1Bw_hA09cIvyzeP1h8PowSxo/edit#
12:00:49 <MichaelC> present+
12:00:50 <ShawnT> What's the link to the Zoom?
12:01:30 <bruce_bailey> bruce_bailey has joined #wcag3-protocols
12:01:37 <bruce_bailey> present+
12:01:51 <ShawnT> Thanks
12:01:56 <bruce_bailey> scribe:bruce_bailey
12:02:50 <Rachael> present+
12:02:50 <bruce_bailey> Jaunita:  working on consensus protocols
12:03:37 <bruce_bailey> JF:  notes some issues with the display in Google Docs
12:04:02 <jeanne> jeanne has joined #wcag3-protocols
12:04:09 <bruce_bailey> JF:  tip is to close editing view
12:05:23 <Jaunita_George> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1twjaSude_5-1VdpFKPX1Bw_hA09cIvyzeP1h8PowSxo/edit#heading=h.a3wmgsst97aw
12:05:35 <bruce_bailey> ShawnT notes some difficulty with Zoom link from Wiki page which MC will update
12:05:40 <ShawnT> https://github.com/w3c/silver/wiki/Protocols
12:05:48 <ShawnT> https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/3c845aec-dab5-49c4-8294-86cc0d1b5aac/20220107T090000
12:06:34 <Poornima_> Poornima_ has joined #wcag3-protocols
12:06:40 <ShawnT> present+
12:06:44 <jeanne> present+
12:06:44 <Jaunita_George> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1twjaSude_5-1VdpFKPX1Bw_hA09cIvyzeP1h8PowSxo/edit#heading=h.a3wmgsst97aw
12:06:49 <Poornima_> present+
12:07:26 <bruce_bailey> Jaunita:  at last meeting we noted a great deal of similarity between two sub groups...
12:07:48 <bruce_bailey> ... please edit or comment on combined document
12:07:58 <JF> Q+
12:08:23 <bruce_bailey> ... differences we might be able to address as different tiers of work for protocols, to allow us something to bring to AGWG
12:09:00 <bruce_bailey> JF:  I don't agree that are so close, bullet with "created by anyone" seems problematic...
12:09:36 <jeanne> q+
12:09:39 <bruce_bailey> ... this difference is significant, because protocols need to be vetted by authority, if not AGWG itself
12:09:48 <jeanne> q-
12:10:06 <bruce_bailey> Jaunita:  Please open document, look for where we can combine...
12:10:28 <bruce_bailey> ... also a possibility to bring competing versions of section to AGWG
12:10:46 <bruce_bailey> q?
12:11:30 <bruce_bailey> Jaunita: Please take moment to open, let me know if problems reading.
12:11:56 <Jaunita_George> ack jf
12:12:02 <bruce_bailey> q+
12:12:17 <bruce_bailey> q-
12:13:02 <bruce_bailey> Bruce ask for help with lack of horizontonal scroll bar
12:13:07 <bruce_bailey> q+
12:13:27 <bruce_bailey> Bruce:  using "pageless" feature
12:14:07 <Jaunita_George> ack bruce_bailey
12:16:46 <bruce_bailey> [Jeanne and Jaunita improve formatting]
12:17:04 <Jaunita_George> q?
12:17:19 <bruce_bailey> Jaunita:  combined proposal is at bottom of document, so that can be focus for todays discussion
12:18:05 <Poornima_> q+
12:19:02 <Jaunita_George> ack Poornima_
12:20:14 <MichaelC> q+
12:20:22 <MichaelC> ack me
12:20:23 <bruce_bailey> Doc has four columns, Topic, Points for Protocols, Evaluating Procedures, and Commonalities/Differences
12:20:25 <Jaunita_George> ack MichaelC
12:20:43 <JF> Q+
12:21:02 <jeanne> +1 for one proposal with differences highlighted
12:21:03 <bruce_bailey> Going through rows by topics, tabular presentation shows overlap
12:21:34 <bruce_bailey> MC:  We will want a single document for WGAG, not two, but calling out disagreements will be fine.
12:21:56 <bruce_bailey> JF:  I am still seeing fundamental differences...
12:22:14 <MichaelC> q+
12:22:31 <bruce_bailey> ... one proposal is strict script for testing...
12:22:48 <MichaelC> ack me
12:22:52 <Jaunita_George> ack JF
12:22:59 <bruce_bailey> ... needs to be in different place in life cycle.  The proposals are fundamental differences.
12:23:06 <JF> Q+
12:23:39 <bruce_bailey> MC:  The evaluation protocol is NOT about evaluating after the fact...
12:24:01 <bruce_bailey> ... so I think we can separate where/timeline as a difference.
12:24:06 <jeanne> q+ to add a new row of when the protocol is applied
12:24:13 <jeanne> ack JF
12:24:50 <MichaelC> q+ to note the requirements for protocols aspect
12:24:50 <bruce_bailey> JF:  One approach to protocols is just too loose.  Use a pale blue background could be a protocol per one definition...
12:25:37 <Jaunita_George> ack jeanne
12:25:37 <Zakim> jeanne, you wanted to add a new row of when the protocol is applied
12:25:41 <MichaelC> q-
12:25:52 <bruce_bailey> ... that is different than having a description on, for example cognitive, which is required reading before starting to develop content
12:26:10 <bruce_bailey> JF:  they are complementary but not the same
12:26:17 <Poornima_> q+
12:26:46 <bruce_bailey> Jeanne:  I added row to table, so we can call out the "where/when" as its own question.
12:27:52 <Jaunita_George> ack Poornima_
12:27:54 <bruce_bailey> Poornima:  I thing we can add an another column so as to highlight with AGWG who writes and who enforces protocol...
12:28:47 <bruce_bailey> ... we may need third party to validate protocols.  I do see some contradictions between the approaches.
12:29:15 <bruce_bailey> Jeanne:  First row is who writes the protocol.  Do we need more?
12:29:59 <bruce_bailey> Poornima:  I think it is that the titles of the protocols need to be determined by the AGWG.
12:30:13 <MichaelC> q+
12:30:25 <bruce_bailey> ... we need a subgroup to determine the categories of protocols
12:30:49 <Jaunita_George> ack MichaelC
12:31:53 <bruce_bailey> MC:  I added evaluating procedure to help with requirements which will help with confidence in protocols.
12:32:17 <bruce_bailey> JF:  Can MC provide some straw man protocols?
12:32:52 <bruce_bailey> JF:  I like PlainLanguage.gov as one which seems aligned with what we are thinking.
12:33:06 <JF> Q+
12:33:33 <bruce_bailey> MC:  See what evaluation procedures, evidence, describe, [etc.]...
12:34:01 <bruce_bailey> ... proposal has what we are looking for, what level of rigor is needed ...
12:34:06 <bruce_bailey> ... we might add more
12:34:16 <bruce_bailey> q+ to ask JF for his other example
12:34:22 <Jaunita_George> ack JF
12:34:49 <bruce_bailey> MC:  AGWG is not going to be able to write out all the many protocols we will need for wcag3
12:35:12 <Jaunita_George> ack bruce_bailey
12:35:12 <Zakim> bruce_bailey, you wanted to ask JF for his other example
12:35:25 <bruce_bailey> JF:  Other example was "making content useable"
12:35:32 <Rachael> https://www.w3.org/TR/coga-usable/
12:36:15 <bruce_bailey> JF:  Proposals defines good enough but is still a fundamental difference
12:37:50 <bruce_bailey> Rachael:  Agrees that we want to capture the fundamental conflicts or differences in the report back to AGWG
12:38:00 <Jaunita_George> q?
12:38:11 <jeanne> q+ to
12:38:20 <jeanne> q- to
12:38:34 <jeanne> q+ to propose moving forward with what we have
12:39:02 <Jaunita_George> ack jeanne
12:39:02 <Zakim> jeanne, you wanted to propose moving forward with what we have
12:39:51 <Rachael> q+
12:39:57 <bruce_bailey> Jeanne:  i think we got people recording their thoughts.  If JF doesn't think the one-proposal report is practical, let us submit two...
12:40:03 <Jaunita_George> ack Rachael
12:40:25 <bruce_bailey> ... and we could have a third which highlights similarity/differences
12:41:06 <bruce_bailey> Rachael:  Reminder of process -- should try to focus on question that could go to AGWG and then which results in PR
12:41:33 <bruce_bailey> Jeanne:  Could we do presentation before survey?
12:41:36 <Rachael> June 21st?
12:41:55 <jeanne> +1 to presentation then survey
12:42:06 <Poornima_> +1
12:42:07 <Rachael> +1
12:42:07 <Jaunita_George> Draft resolution: Bring two proposals to AGWG with a table outlining the similarities and differences. This would be presented first to AGWG before questions are sent in a survey. Presentation would be on June 21st
12:42:08 <ShawnT> +1
12:42:13 <JF> +1
12:42:19 <MichaelC> +1
12:42:22 <Jaunita_George> +1
12:42:23 <jeanne> +1
12:42:24 <ShawnT> +1
12:42:36 <Rachael> Can you present in 30 minutes? 10 minute overview, 10 minutes for each version?
12:42:47 <Jaunita_George> RESOLUTION: Bring two proposals to AGWG with a table outlining the similarities and differences. This would be presented first to AGWG before questions are sent in a survey. Presentation would be on June 21st.
12:43:01 <jeanne> +1 to 30 minutes
12:43:17 <jeanne> +1 to single presenter
12:43:21 <bruce_bailey> MC:  Suggest single person giving presentation
12:43:28 <ShawnT> +1
12:43:41 <bruce_bailey> JF:  I would prefer two speakers
12:44:13 <bruce_bailey> JF:  I would like to present the proposal which I have had lead with.
12:44:41 <Jaunita_George> Agenda
12:44:46 <bruce_bailey> Racheal:  Okay with two people, but 30 minutes is cap.
12:45:01 <Jaunita_George> Introduction to the work: Jaunita
12:45:12 <Jaunita_George> Points for Protocol: John
12:45:14 <bruce_bailey> q+ to suggest JF coach Jaunita
12:45:19 <Jaunita_George> Evaluating Procedures: Jaunita
12:46:00 <bruce_bailey> Bruce suggests JF coach Jaunita
12:46:21 <Jaunita_George> ack bruce_bailey
12:46:21 <Zakim> bruce_bailey, you wanted to suggest JF coach Jaunita
12:46:33 <Rachael> q+
12:46:38 <bruce_bailey> JF:  I have concerns with notes and comparisons, so I have not been conveying concern
12:46:38 <Jaunita_George> ack Rachael
12:47:11 <bruce_bailey> Rachael:  I support both proposals getting before AGWG
12:47:45 <bruce_bailey> Rachael:  slide approach would be better than doc, but needs more time
12:48:11 <bruce_bailey> Jaunita 21st date is election day, so that is no good
12:48:42 <bruce_bailey> Jaunita, I can get with John on a joint proposal.
12:49:18 <bruce_bailey> Jaunita:  We will work on summarizing table
12:49:21 <Jaunita_George> q?
12:49:23 <bruce_bailey> q+
12:49:30 <Jaunita_George> ack bruce_bailey
12:50:20 <bruce_bailey> bruce:  thanks JF for being willing to work with Jaunita on joint presentation
12:50:38 <bruce_bailey> JF:  I agree I am not getting some of my concerns accross
12:51:03 <bruce_bailey> Jeanne: i am also willing to help with slide deck
12:51:35 <Poornima_> q+
12:51:42 <bruce_bailey> Rachael:  please invite chairs if we can help with process and review
12:51:42 <Jaunita_George> ack Poornima_
12:52:03 <Rachael> It can come back to this group two times before AG for discussion.
12:52:28 <bruce_bailey> Poornima:  I would like more opportunities to give feedback into doucment
12:52:54 <bruce_bailey> Jaunita:  We have a couple more meeting before the 28th date
12:53:18 <bruce_bailey> MC:  28th date might not work for me
12:53:37 <Rachael> +1 to speaker notes. Thank you both for tackling this
12:54:05 <bruce_bailey> Jaunita:  I will endeavor to have good speaker notes in the PPT/Google Slides speaker notes
12:54:54 <bruce_bailey> MC:  Please check Poornima on access to meetings
12:55:17 <bruce_bailey> ... Silver Community Group might not be the same as before
12:55:45 <Jaunita_George> rrsagent, make minutes
12:55:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/06/10-wcag3-protocols-minutes.html Jaunita_George
12:55:46 <bruce_bailey> Jaunita:  We have a path forword.
12:56:29 <Rachael> zakim, end meeing
12:56:29 <Zakim> I don't understand 'end meeing', Rachael
12:57:00 <bruce_bailey> zakim, end meeting
12:57:00 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been JF, Jaunita_George, MichaelC, bruce_bailey, Rachael, ShawnT, jeanne, Poornima_
12:57:02 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
12:57:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/06/10-wcag3-protocols-minutes.html Zakim
12:57:05 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, bruce_bailey; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
12:57:10 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wcag3-protocols