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14:04:45 <plh> present=fantasai, wseltzer , jrosewell , plh, florian
14:04:53 <plh> regrets+ Jeff
14:05:02 <plh> regrets+ Chris
14:06:40 <wseltzer> scribe+
14:06:49 <wseltzer> plh: this will be a short meeting, I promise
14:06:57 <wseltzer> zakim, give meeting 20 minutes
14:06:57 <Zakim> I don't understand 'give meeting 20 minutes', wseltzer
14:06:59 <fantasai> famous last words
14:07:04 <plh> agenda+ Goals and timeline for upcoming Process: Work for the next 9 months.
14:07:04 <plh> agenda+ 4 Pull requests: Let's approve pull requests within 2 weeks
14:07:04 <plh> agenda+ Director-Free Formal Objection handling: Status & next steps.
14:07:04 <plh> agenda+ Director-Free TAG appointment: Status & next steps.
14:07:05 <plh> agenda+ Director-Free Chartering and pre-AC review: Status & next steps.
14:07:05 <plh> agenda+ P2022 to close: restarting the closures.
14:07:07 <plh> agenda+ P2022 issues list.
14:07:09 <plh> agenda+ Next meeting: June 22.
14:07:11 <plh> agenda+ Any other business.
14:07:16 <plh> zakim, move to next agendum
14:07:17 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Goals and timeline for upcoming Process: Work for the next 9 months. -- taken up [from plh]
14:07:48 <wseltzer> plh: Fantasai and I are your new chairs, welcome back
14:08:10 <wseltzer> ... we have no fires
14:08:26 <wseltzer> ... but we should set goals for the next 9mo
14:08:41 <wseltzer> ... a few edits that have been approved and merged
14:08:57 <plh> --> https://www.w3.org/Consortium/Process/Drafts/#changes-2021 Change log
14:09:04 <wseltzer> ... nothing that requires shipping a process update urgently
14:09:22 <wseltzer> ... mainly continued prep for post-Director
14:10:02 <wseltzer> ... Don't think we're on-track to ship a process in September
14:10:18 <wseltzer> ... and as there are no significant substantive changes
14:10:38 <wseltzer> ... We could get Dir-Free by Q1/Q2 2023
14:10:52 <wseltzer> ... need we ship a Process before then? I don't think so
14:10:59 <wseltzer> <wseltzer> +1
14:11:05 <wseltzer> florian: agree
14:11:22 <wseltzer> ... git would permit us to ship one while working on another in branch
14:11:38 <wseltzer> ... but don't think it's worth the pause we've seen in the past
14:12:06 <wseltzer> fantasai: the pause was combo of explanation and exhaustion. don't think that's necessary here
14:12:09 <wseltzer> q+
14:12:14 <plh> ack ws
14:12:24 <fantasai> wseltzer: I think we should explicitly choose to wait until DF to update
14:12:24 <plh> wseltzer: let's wait until we have Director-Free
14:12:34 <wseltzer> q-
14:12:51 <florian> wfm
14:13:05 <wseltzer> plh: I think, unless someone comes with something critical, focus on Q1-Q2 Dir-Free release
14:13:20 <wseltzer> ... by moving things one by one from Dir-Free branch to main
14:13:30 <plh> zakim, move to next agendum
14:13:30 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- 4 Pull requests: Let's approve pull requests within 2 weeks -- taken up [from plh]
14:13:59 <wseltzer> plh: PRs. Not looking for approval today, but heads-up that we'll ask for decision in 2 weeks
14:14:04 <wseltzer> ... 2 PRs on the same issue
14:14:20 <wseltzer> ... from wseltzer, florian
14:14:37 <wseltzer> florian: as mine preceded Wendy's, which has PSIG review
14:14:44 <wseltzer> ... if people like Wendy's, take it
14:14:50 <wseltzer> fantasai: but Nigel pointed out problems
14:15:31 <wseltzer> action: wseltzer to re-review 572 and Nigel's comments
14:15:40 <wseltzer> s/572/599/
14:15:57 <wseltzer> action: everyone fix the process
14:16:26 <wseltzer> plh: if there are other things in 572, do a distinct PR
14:16:33 <wseltzer> ... Wendy, tell us how to move forward
14:16:48 <fantasai> florian: the additional changes in 572 are part of the same thing, just touching more of the surrounding text
14:16:59 <fantasai> scribe+
14:16:59 <wseltzer> plh: 602 is simple clarification of how we announce charter extensions to AC
14:17:52 <wseltzer> florian: can we just approve this?
14:17:56 <wseltzer> ... it's trivial
14:18:00 <wseltzer> wseltzer: +1
14:18:23 <wseltzer> plh: let's merge 602
14:18:32 <wseltzer> https://github.com/w3c/w3process/pull/602/files
14:18:36 <wseltzer> plh: 586
14:18:53 <wseltzer> https://github.com/w3c/w3process/pull/586
14:19:08 <wseltzer> florian: this is one from Dir-Free
14:19:21 <wseltzer> ... when a doc is making progress on rec track, there are things team should check
14:19:49 <wseltzer> ... currently, it's marked the Director is supposed to do, but should be done by team
14:19:58 <wseltzer> ... not decision responsibility but verification
14:20:09 <wseltzer> ... it's starting from WG decision
14:20:38 <wseltzer> ... and the possibility of AC review if something goes wrong
14:20:49 <wseltzer> ... so it should be easy to replace Dir with Team
14:21:00 <wseltzer> plh: and a should became must
14:21:07 <wseltzer> plh: people SHOULD look at it
14:21:14 <wseltzer> ... in 2 weeks, I'll ask if merge
14:21:21 <plh> ack fan
14:21:27 <fantasai> https://github.com/w3c/w3process/pull/586#issuecomment-967144665
14:21:39 <wseltzer> fantasai: I agree with changes. see Leonie's comment
14:21:59 <wseltzer> ... that team should document exceptions
14:22:09 <wseltzer> ... should address either in this PR or elsewhere
14:22:17 <wseltzer> florian: I'll add something
14:22:40 <wseltzer> plh: I'll want to make sure Ralph sees the update
14:23:02 <plh> zakim, move to next agendum
14:23:02 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Director-Free Formal Objection handling: Status & next steps. -- taken up [from plh]
14:23:39 <wseltzer> plh: FOs
14:23:55 <wseltzer> florian: we have a description of Council in DF branch
14:24:21 <wseltzer> ... not completely up-to-date with experimental process, esp wrt dismissal/recusal
14:24:42 <wseltzer> ... we also need to review
14:25:14 <plh> --> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1lB8Q_pvqxfN204FQHZ8D2HObxfo36qnguif9mGpEJTU/edit# W3M-AB Formal Objection Planning
14:25:33 <wseltzer> plh: I came up with this draft ^
14:25:39 <wseltzer> ... steps and who's responsible
14:25:55 <wseltzer> ... check its alignment with DF
14:26:12 <wseltzer> florian: I expect most of that detail would go in to /Guide
14:26:24 <wseltzer> plh: agree. mostly check for consistency
14:27:42 <wseltzer> ... and there's more work to be done around dismissal
14:27:45 <wseltzer> florian: not stable yet
14:28:22 <wseltzer> plh: I'll ask Ralph to join us next meeting, as he's been Council team contact
14:29:02 <wseltzer> florian: a nit, Member Submission appea
14:29:08 <wseltzer> ... we should fold into the same process
14:29:11 <wseltzer> s/appea/appeal
14:29:32 <wseltzer> florian: and detail about what's public when
14:30:09 <wseltzer> ... also group decision appeal. similar to FO, but not quite
14:30:11 <fantasai> s/same process/same process once we have the Council, currently says for technical things go to TAG and for process things go to AB/
14:30:31 <plh> q?
14:30:58 <wseltzer> plh: timing
14:31:18 <wseltzer> ... right now Dir can decide whether to address when objection is brought or at transition time
14:31:30 <wseltzer> ... who addresses when to address? give Council the option?
14:31:57 <wseltzer> florian: timer starts when objection is filed. team has some time to review, ...
14:32:04 <wseltzer> plh: bad side effect
14:32:32 <wseltzer> ... e.g. I have groups who have FO on record, who haven't sent transition request
14:32:42 <wseltzer> florian: start a new issue
14:33:25 <wseltzer> fantasai: people shouldn't be able to escalate to council at non-transition time unless at least formal decision to which they object, or long-standing (year-long) issue ignored
14:34:13 <wseltzer> ... you shouldn't be able to go to council on e.g. an editor's choice
14:34:24 <plh> zakim, move to next agendum
14:34:24 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Director-Free TAG appointment: Status & next steps. -- taken up [from plh]
14:34:41 <fantasai> s/choice/choice that has not yet been escalated to the WG/
14:35:09 <wseltzer> florian: we had a complete proposal, we haven't touched it in a long time, probably need to simplify
14:35:30 <wseltzer> ... how should we proceed?
14:36:05 <wseltzer> fantasai: think we should file an issue with AB
14:36:10 <wseltzer> ... w high level overview
14:37:09 <wseltzer> plh: let's review proposal next time
14:37:15 <wseltzer> florian: I can proceed in parallel
14:37:22 <plh> zakim, move to next agendum
14:37:22 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Director-Free Chartering and pre-AC review: Status & next steps. -- taken up [from plh]
14:37:56 <wseltzer> florian: DF branch just replaces Dir with Team
14:38:01 <wseltzer> ... some people feel it's insufficient
14:38:19 <wseltzer> ... and want more member role/transparency/mgt
14:38:45 <wseltzer> ... should we do 2 steps or 1?
14:39:08 <wseltzer> plh: 2 steps. let's land what we have and then recognize we need to do better
14:39:13 <wseltzer> florian: I'm fine with it
14:39:49 <fantasai> fantasai: but some people not here have indicated being uncomfortable with that
14:39:53 <fantasai> s/fantasai/florian/
14:40:03 <fantasai> plh: who will work on this, wendy?
14:40:21 <fantasai> wseltzer: would rather not...
14:40:30 <wseltzer> s/wseltzer: would rather not...//
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14:40:57 <fantasai> [discussion of florian making a PR of the minimal changes]
14:41:09 <plh> zakim, move to next agendum
14:41:09 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- P2022 to close: restarting the closures. -- taken up [from plh]
14:41:31 <wseltzer> plh: florian and david spent lots of time on issue triage
14:41:39 <wseltzer> ... reminder, we'll do some issue closure
14:41:42 <florian> https://github.com/w3c/w3process/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3A%22P2022+Proposed+to+close%22
14:41:43 <wseltzer> ... on upcoming calls
14:42:13 <plh> zakim, move to next agendum
14:42:13 <Zakim> agendum 7 -- P2022 issues list. -- taken up [from plh]
14:42:57 <wseltzer> plh: if you have issues that aren't on this list, please make sure you speak up
14:43:06 <wseltzer> ... or if you believe issues should be dropped,
14:43:23 <wseltzer> florian: this isn't list of everything that must be fixed
14:43:38 <wseltzer> ... it's a signal of things we'll probably try to solve
14:43:59 <wseltzer> plh: if you want issues to be on the list, chairs will be looking for volunteers.
14:44:04 <plh> zakim, move to next agendum
14:44:04 <Zakim> agendum 8 -- Next meeting: June 22. -- taken up [from plh]
14:44:52 <wseltzer> plh: btw, we should expect to share progress at TPAC
14:45:24 <wseltzer> [adjourned]
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