IRC log of w3process on 2022-06-08
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 14:04:21 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #w3process
- 14:04:21 [RRSAgent]
- logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/06/08-w3process-irc
- 14:04:45 [plh]
- present=fantasai, wseltzer , jrosewell , plh, florian
- 14:04:53 [plh]
- regrets+ Jeff
- 14:05:02 [plh]
- regrets+ Chris
- 14:06:40 [wseltzer]
- scribe+
- 14:06:49 [wseltzer]
- plh: this will be a short meeting, I promise
- 14:06:57 [wseltzer]
- zakim, give meeting 20 minutes
- 14:06:57 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'give meeting 20 minutes', wseltzer
- 14:06:59 [fantasai]
- famous last words
- 14:07:04 [plh]
- agenda+ Goals and timeline for upcoming Process: Work for the next 9 months.
- 14:07:04 [plh]
- agenda+ 4 Pull requests: Let's approve pull requests within 2 weeks
- 14:07:04 [plh]
- agenda+ Director-Free Formal Objection handling: Status & next steps.
- 14:07:04 [plh]
- agenda+ Director-Free TAG appointment: Status & next steps.
- 14:07:05 [plh]
- agenda+ Director-Free Chartering and pre-AC review: Status & next steps.
- 14:07:05 [plh]
- agenda+ P2022 to close: restarting the closures.
- 14:07:07 [plh]
- agenda+ P2022 issues list.
- 14:07:09 [plh]
- agenda+ Next meeting: June 22.
- 14:07:11 [plh]
- agenda+ Any other business.
- 14:07:16 [plh]
- zakim, move to next agendum
- 14:07:17 [Zakim]
- agendum 1 -- Goals and timeline for upcoming Process: Work for the next 9 months. -- taken up [from plh]
- 14:07:48 [wseltzer]
- plh: Fantasai and I are your new chairs, welcome back
- 14:08:10 [wseltzer]
- ... we have no fires
- 14:08:26 [wseltzer]
- ... but we should set goals for the next 9mo
- 14:08:41 [wseltzer]
- ... a few edits that have been approved and merged
- 14:08:57 [plh]
- --> https://www.w3.org/Consortium/Process/Drafts/#changes-2021 Change log
- 14:09:04 [wseltzer]
- ... nothing that requires shipping a process update urgently
- 14:09:22 [wseltzer]
- ... mainly continued prep for post-Director
- 14:10:02 [wseltzer]
- ... Don't think we're on-track to ship a process in September
- 14:10:18 [wseltzer]
- ... and as there are no significant substantive changes
- 14:10:38 [wseltzer]
- ... We could get Dir-Free by Q1/Q2 2023
- 14:10:52 [wseltzer]
- ... need we ship a Process before then? I don't think so
- 14:10:59 [wseltzer]
- <wseltzer> +1
- 14:11:05 [wseltzer]
- florian: agree
- 14:11:22 [wseltzer]
- ... git would permit us to ship one while working on another in branch
- 14:11:38 [wseltzer]
- ... but don't think it's worth the pause we've seen in the past
- 14:12:06 [wseltzer]
- fantasai: the pause was combo of explanation and exhaustion. don't think that's necessary here
- 14:12:09 [wseltzer]
- q+
- 14:12:14 [plh]
- ack ws
- 14:12:24 [fantasai]
- wseltzer: I think we should explicitly choose to wait until DF to update
- 14:12:24 [plh]
- wseltzer: let's wait until we have Director-Free
- 14:12:34 [wseltzer]
- q-
- 14:12:51 [florian]
- wfm
- 14:13:05 [wseltzer]
- plh: I think, unless someone comes with something critical, focus on Q1-Q2 Dir-Free release
- 14:13:20 [wseltzer]
- ... by moving things one by one from Dir-Free branch to main
- 14:13:30 [plh]
- zakim, move to next agendum
- 14:13:30 [Zakim]
- agendum 2 -- 4 Pull requests: Let's approve pull requests within 2 weeks -- taken up [from plh]
- 14:13:59 [wseltzer]
- plh: PRs. Not looking for approval today, but heads-up that we'll ask for decision in 2 weeks
- 14:14:04 [wseltzer]
- ... 2 PRs on the same issue
- 14:14:20 [wseltzer]
- ... from wseltzer, florian
- 14:14:37 [wseltzer]
- florian: as mine preceded Wendy's, which has PSIG review
- 14:14:44 [wseltzer]
- ... if people like Wendy's, take it
- 14:14:50 [wseltzer]
- fantasai: but Nigel pointed out problems
- 14:15:31 [wseltzer]
- action: wseltzer to re-review 572 and Nigel's comments
- 14:15:40 [wseltzer]
- s/572/599/
- 14:15:57 [wseltzer]
- action: everyone fix the process
- 14:16:26 [wseltzer]
- plh: if there are other things in 572, do a distinct PR
- 14:16:33 [wseltzer]
- ... Wendy, tell us how to move forward
- 14:16:48 [fantasai]
- florian: the additional changes in 572 are part of the same thing, just touching more of the surrounding text
- 14:16:59 [fantasai]
- scribe+
- 14:16:59 [wseltzer]
- plh: 602 is simple clarification of how we announce charter extensions to AC
- 14:17:52 [wseltzer]
- florian: can we just approve this?
- 14:17:56 [wseltzer]
- ... it's trivial
- 14:18:00 [wseltzer]
- wseltzer: +1
- 14:18:23 [wseltzer]
- plh: let's merge 602
- 14:18:32 [wseltzer]
- https://github.com/w3c/w3process/pull/602/files
- 14:18:36 [wseltzer]
- plh: 586
- 14:18:53 [wseltzer]
- https://github.com/w3c/w3process/pull/586
- 14:19:08 [wseltzer]
- florian: this is one from Dir-Free
- 14:19:21 [wseltzer]
- ... when a doc is making progress on rec track, there are things team should check
- 14:19:49 [wseltzer]
- ... currently, it's marked the Director is supposed to do, but should be done by team
- 14:19:58 [wseltzer]
- ... not decision responsibility but verification
- 14:20:09 [wseltzer]
- ... it's starting from WG decision
- 14:20:38 [wseltzer]
- ... and the possibility of AC review if something goes wrong
- 14:20:49 [wseltzer]
- ... so it should be easy to replace Dir with Team
- 14:21:00 [wseltzer]
- plh: and a should became must
- 14:21:07 [wseltzer]
- plh: people SHOULD look at it
- 14:21:14 [wseltzer]
- ... in 2 weeks, I'll ask if merge
- 14:21:21 [plh]
- ack fan
- 14:21:27 [fantasai]
- https://github.com/w3c/w3process/pull/586#issuecomment-967144665
- 14:21:39 [wseltzer]
- fantasai: I agree with changes. see Leonie's comment
- 14:21:59 [wseltzer]
- ... that team should document exceptions
- 14:22:09 [wseltzer]
- ... should address either in this PR or elsewhere
- 14:22:17 [wseltzer]
- florian: I'll add something
- 14:22:40 [wseltzer]
- plh: I'll want to make sure Ralph sees the update
- 14:23:02 [plh]
- zakim, move to next agendum
- 14:23:02 [Zakim]
- agendum 3 -- Director-Free Formal Objection handling: Status & next steps. -- taken up [from plh]
- 14:23:39 [wseltzer]
- plh: FOs
- 14:23:55 [wseltzer]
- florian: we have a description of Council in DF branch
- 14:24:21 [wseltzer]
- ... not completely up-to-date with experimental process, esp wrt dismissal/recusal
- 14:24:42 [wseltzer]
- ... we also need to review
- 14:25:14 [plh]
- --> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1lB8Q_pvqxfN204FQHZ8D2HObxfo36qnguif9mGpEJTU/edit# W3M-AB Formal Objection Planning
- 14:25:33 [wseltzer]
- plh: I came up with this draft ^
- 14:25:39 [wseltzer]
- ... steps and who's responsible
- 14:25:55 [wseltzer]
- ... check its alignment with DF
- 14:26:12 [wseltzer]
- florian: I expect most of that detail would go in to /Guide
- 14:26:24 [wseltzer]
- plh: agree. mostly check for consistency
- 14:27:42 [wseltzer]
- ... and there's more work to be done around dismissal
- 14:27:45 [wseltzer]
- florian: not stable yet
- 14:28:22 [wseltzer]
- plh: I'll ask Ralph to join us next meeting, as he's been Council team contact
- 14:29:02 [wseltzer]
- florian: a nit, Member Submission appea
- 14:29:08 [wseltzer]
- ... we should fold into the same process
- 14:29:11 [wseltzer]
- s/appea/appeal
- 14:29:32 [wseltzer]
- florian: and detail about what's public when
- 14:30:09 [wseltzer]
- ... also group decision appeal. similar to FO, but not quite
- 14:30:11 [fantasai]
- s/same process/same process once we have the Council, currently says for technical things go to TAG and for process things go to AB/
- 14:30:31 [plh]
- q?
- 14:30:58 [wseltzer]
- plh: timing
- 14:31:18 [wseltzer]
- ... right now Dir can decide whether to address when objection is brought or at transition time
- 14:31:30 [wseltzer]
- ... who addresses when to address? give Council the option?
- 14:31:57 [wseltzer]
- florian: timer starts when objection is filed. team has some time to review, ...
- 14:32:04 [wseltzer]
- plh: bad side effect
- 14:32:32 [wseltzer]
- ... e.g. I have groups who have FO on record, who haven't sent transition request
- 14:32:42 [wseltzer]
- florian: start a new issue
- 14:33:25 [wseltzer]
- fantasai: people shouldn't be able to escalate to council at non-transition time unless at least formal decision to which they object, or long-standing (year-long) issue ignored
- 14:34:13 [wseltzer]
- ... you shouldn't be able to go to council on e.g. an editor's choice
- 14:34:24 [plh]
- zakim, move to next agendum
- 14:34:24 [Zakim]
- agendum 4 -- Director-Free TAG appointment: Status & next steps. -- taken up [from plh]
- 14:34:41 [fantasai]
- s/choice/choice that has not yet been escalated to the WG/
- 14:35:09 [wseltzer]
- florian: we had a complete proposal, we haven't touched it in a long time, probably need to simplify
- 14:35:30 [wseltzer]
- ... how should we proceed?
- 14:36:05 [wseltzer]
- fantasai: think we should file an issue with AB
- 14:36:10 [wseltzer]
- ... w high level overview
- 14:37:09 [wseltzer]
- plh: let's review proposal next time
- 14:37:15 [wseltzer]
- florian: I can proceed in parallel
- 14:37:22 [plh]
- zakim, move to next agendum
- 14:37:22 [Zakim]
- agendum 5 -- Director-Free Chartering and pre-AC review: Status & next steps. -- taken up [from plh]
- 14:37:56 [wseltzer]
- florian: DF branch just replaces Dir with Team
- 14:38:01 [wseltzer]
- ... some people feel it's insufficient
- 14:38:19 [wseltzer]
- ... and want more member role/transparency/mgt
- 14:38:45 [wseltzer]
- ... should we do 2 steps or 1?
- 14:39:08 [wseltzer]
- plh: 2 steps. let's land what we have and then recognize we need to do better
- 14:39:13 [wseltzer]
- florian: I'm fine with it
- 14:39:49 [fantasai]
- fantasai: but some people not here have indicated being uncomfortable with that
- 14:39:53 [fantasai]
- s/fantasai/florian/
- 14:40:03 [fantasai]
- plh: who will work on this, wendy?
- 14:40:21 [fantasai]
- wseltzer: would rather not...
- 14:40:30 [wseltzer]
- s/wseltzer: would rather not...//
- 14:40:56 [dsinger]
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- 14:40:57 [fantasai]
- [discussion of florian making a PR of the minimal changes]
- 14:41:09 [plh]
- zakim, move to next agendum
- 14:41:09 [Zakim]
- agendum 6 -- P2022 to close: restarting the closures. -- taken up [from plh]
- 14:41:31 [wseltzer]
- plh: florian and david spent lots of time on issue triage
- 14:41:39 [wseltzer]
- ... reminder, we'll do some issue closure
- 14:41:42 [florian]
- https://github.com/w3c/w3process/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3A%22P2022+Proposed+to+close%22
- 14:41:43 [wseltzer]
- ... on upcoming calls
- 14:42:13 [plh]
- zakim, move to next agendum
- 14:42:13 [Zakim]
- agendum 7 -- P2022 issues list. -- taken up [from plh]
- 14:42:57 [wseltzer]
- plh: if you have issues that aren't on this list, please make sure you speak up
- 14:43:06 [wseltzer]
- ... or if you believe issues should be dropped,
- 14:43:23 [wseltzer]
- florian: this isn't list of everything that must be fixed
- 14:43:38 [wseltzer]
- ... it's a signal of things we'll probably try to solve
- 14:43:59 [wseltzer]
- plh: if you want issues to be on the list, chairs will be looking for volunteers.
- 14:44:04 [plh]
- zakim, move to next agendum
- 14:44:04 [Zakim]
- agendum 8 -- Next meeting: June 22. -- taken up [from plh]
- 14:44:52 [wseltzer]
- plh: btw, we should expect to share progress at TPAC
- 14:45:24 [wseltzer]
- [adjourned]
- 15:04:52 [tzviya]
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