IRC log of auto on 2022-05-16

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Meeting: Automotive Working Group Teleconference

15:07:41 [ted]

Meeting: VSSo

15:07:42 [ted]

scribenick: ted

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Present+ Ted

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15:08:46 [ted]

Present+ Paul, Pierre-Antione, Carine, Frederic, Daniel, DanielA

15:09:13 [ted]

Introductions and Data Workshop

15:09:25 [pchampin]

https://www.trusts-data.eu/data-spaces-semantic-interoperability/

15:10:28 [ted]

https://github.com/w3c/vsso/issues

15:12:35 [ted]

Daniel: is anyone from CatenaX (automotive subset of GaiaX) is attending the workshop?

15:12:46 [ted]

… if you're not familiar with that activity, we can discuss separately

15:13:57 [ted]

Pierre-Antione: we reached out to GaiaX but would certainly welcome further discussion

15:14:40 [ted]

s/Introductions and Data Workshop/Topic: Introductions and Data Workshop/

15:14:50 [ted]

Topic: Issues and Pull Requests

15:15:29 [ted]

Daniel: Carine, thank you for the namespace PR, will accept that soon

15:15:29 [ted]

https://github.com/w3c/vsso/pull/27

15:16:15 [ted]

Daniel: the next one is based on a vulnerability discovered by bots https://github.com/w3c/vsso/pull/39

15:16:42 [ted]

… ran into complications, wonder if we can reopen the PR?

15:16:48 [ted]

Carine: it should work directly

15:17:01 [ted]

Daniel: maybe if I recommit it will check it again, otherwise will create a new PR

15:17:28 [ted]

… earlier I wasn't in the group and think that was the cause [addressed]

15:17:35 [ted]

Carine: it's ok, I'll merge

15:18:48 [ted]

https://github.com/w3c/vsso/pull/40

15:19:08 [ted]

Daniel: as there is more content to this one, will give people until the next meeting to provide feedback

15:20:22 [ted]

… in VSS typically dot-notation to a leaf is used. I added annotation property

15:20:48 [caribou]

done

15:21:11 [ted]

Felix: how to handle the seed properties?

15:21:31 [ted]

Daniel: for now I took instances out for instance row1, 2...

15:23:19 [ted]

… rest of this PR is minor changes but do please take a look

15:23:26 [ted]

https://github.com/w3c/vsso/pull/41

15:24:22 [ted]

Daniel: in VSS3 we have comments so added to ontology as rdfs:comment. main point is to have dynamic instances in the tree itself. we decided at the workshop to use instances instead of classes

15:25:19 [pchampin]

q+

15:26:06 [ted]

… this is leading us to punning. we had a restriction of the property

15:26:18 [ted]

Felix: we could work to make the object property work again

15:26:48 [ted]

… if we agree we can accept the PR as it would be good to have what's in VSS in VSSo

15:27:27 [ted]

DanielA: basically having instances is beneficial when you want to point to a concept from another ontology. that was the case with dynamic vehicle properties

15:28:12 [ted]

… I haven't worked with vehicle component concept and whether it would be better as a subclass

15:28:21 [pchampin]

q-

15:29:08 [ted]

Felix: vehicle component is similar to VSS branch, giving some details about where the property is coming from

15:29:39 [ted]

… so far we haven't added properties nor subclasses to existing

15:31:17 [ted]

Daniel: right now as we're generating the information and don't see anything on top we have two choices: leave it out or add as instances

15:31:49 [ted]

Felix: what we can introduce later on is introduce a subclass structure later

15:32:17 [ted]

s/introduce later/do later/

15:32:47 [ted]

DanielA: what I have seen in other models is adoption is difficult if knowledge is in too many domains. keeping the model simple will help with adoption

15:33:21 [ted]

… I would support components as instances for now

15:33:22 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/05/16-auto-minutes.html ted

15:35:09 [ted]

s/Issues and Pull Requests/Pull Requests/

15:35:13 [ted]

Topic: Issues

15:35:19 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/05/16-auto-minutes.html ted

15:35:53 [ted]

https://github.com/w3c/vsso/issues/13

15:37:03 [ted]

DanielA: by what concept is the unit to be defined?

15:37:33 [ted]

Daniel: anyone want to propose an idea or does someone want to work on for next time

15:37:45 [ted]

Felix: haven't formed my thoughts yet

15:37:58 [ted]

DanielA: I have some notes and can bring forward an idea for next time

15:38:20 [ted]

Daniel: use slack to discuss in meantime or this github issue and tag Felix

15:39:35 [ted]

https://github.com/w3c/vsso/issues/37

15:40:27 [ted]

Daniel: currently we use branch structure to create unique names. the main goal is to avoid overlaps/conflicts

15:40:37 [ted]

… a better way would be appreciated

15:40:58 [ted]

https://github.com/w3c/vsso/issues/34

15:41:32 [ted]

DanielA: this is making the description more consistent, using position in the vehicle. I suggested using the union as the domain

15:43:04 [ted]

Pierre-Antione: it makes the ontology a bit more complex but the right way semantically would be to use the union approach

15:43:25 [ted]

… another way would be to create a superclass of vehicle property or component

15:44:01 [ted]

… this trick has the advantage of only needing RDF schema (not OWL)

15:44:17 [ted]

… there are trade offs

15:44:50 [ted]

DanielA: positionedAt property can be used to tie to vehicle component

15:45:01 [ted]

Felix: I'm a bit confused

15:45:09 [ted]

Daniel: its about position eg front left

15:45:46 [ted]

Pierre-Antione: union is correct but a string interpretation. once you set the axiom it cannot be anything else

15:46:19 [ted]

… if you want a more relaxed association with position then a union would be weaker and not used

15:46:36 [ted]

Felix: understand. I would express it the same way, you want to know where you can use this property

15:46:56 [ted]

DanielA: can you remind me the range for positionAt property?

15:47:11 [ted]

s/positionAt/positionedAt/

15:47:12 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/05/16-auto-minutes.html ted

15:48:56 [ted]

Daniel: the sentiment I heard was more a leaning toward union representation but can leave this issue open for further discussion

15:49:18 [ted]

DanielA: looking at resulting ontology and query difficulty would help

15:49:48 [ted]

Daniel: from the association perspective it doesn't change

15:51:03 [ted]

… if someone can prepare PR with examples that would help and be used to improve the documentation

15:51:45 [ted]

https://github.com/w3c/vsso/issues/33

15:52:25 [ted]

DanielA: this is more about making use explicit

15:52:39 [ted]

Daniel: that's fine, any other opinion?

15:52:42 [ted]

Felix: I agree

15:53:20 [ted]

https://github.com/w3c/vsso/issues/31

15:53:44 [ted]

DanielA: this will depend on component relationship. we are using hierarchy from VSS

15:54:15 [ted]

… root is vehicle and partOf could handle this

15:54:48 [ted]

Felix: in the diagram it is a transitive property

15:55:07 [ted]

DanielA: but I think the intention is to have this functionality

15:55:31 [ted]

Felix: for me it is redundant

15:56:10 [ted]

Daniel: when discussing relationship between vehicle and components it might indeed be redundant

15:57:14 [ted]

Pierre-Antione: partOfVehicle is for when there is an instance of a vehicle. we want a hierarchy that does not depend on any specific vehicle

16:00:22 [ted]

Daniel: it needs an example and more thinking

16:00:26 [ted]

Felix: exactly

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I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/05/16-auto-minutes.html ted

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