15:07:28 RRSAgent has joined #auto 15:07:28 logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/05/16-auto-irc 15:07:30 RRSAgent, make logs Public 15:07:31 Meeting: Automotive Working Group Teleconference 15:07:41 Meeting: VSSo 15:07:42 scribenick: ted 15:07:44 Present+ Ted 15:08:17 pchampin has joined #auto 15:08:46 Present+ Paul, Pierre-Antione, Carine, Frederic, Daniel, DanielA 15:09:13 Introductions and Data Workshop 15:09:25 https://www.trusts-data.eu/data-spaces-semantic-interoperability/ 15:10:28 https://github.com/w3c/vsso/issues 15:12:35 Daniel: is anyone from CatenaX (automotive subset of GaiaX) is attending the workshop? 15:12:46 … if you're not familiar with that activity, we can discuss separately 15:13:57 Pierre-Antione: we reached out to GaiaX but would certainly welcome further discussion 15:14:40 s/Introductions and Data Workshop/Topic: Introductions and Data Workshop/ 15:14:50 Topic: Issues and Pull Requests 15:15:29 Daniel: Carine, thank you for the namespace PR, will accept that soon 15:15:29 https://github.com/w3c/vsso/pull/27 15:16:15 Daniel: the next one is based on a vulnerability discovered by bots https://github.com/w3c/vsso/pull/39 15:16:42 … ran into complications, wonder if we can reopen the PR? 15:16:48 Carine: it should work directly 15:17:01 Daniel: maybe if I recommit it will check it again, otherwise will create a new PR 15:17:28 … earlier I wasn't in the group and think that was the cause [addressed] 15:17:35 Carine: it's ok, I'll merge 15:18:48 https://github.com/w3c/vsso/pull/40 15:19:08 Daniel: as there is more content to this one, will give people until the next meeting to provide feedback 15:20:22 … in VSS typically dot-notation to a leaf is used. I added annotation property 15:20:48 done 15:21:11 Felix: how to handle the seed properties? 15:21:31 Daniel: for now I took instances out for instance row1, 2... 15:23:19 … rest of this PR is minor changes but do please take a look 15:23:26 https://github.com/w3c/vsso/pull/41 15:24:22 Daniel: in VSS3 we have comments so added to ontology as rdfs:comment. main point is to have dynamic instances in the tree itself. we decided at the workshop to use instances instead of classes 15:25:19 q+ 15:26:06 … this is leading us to punning. we had a restriction of the property 15:26:18 Felix: we could work to make the object property work again 15:26:48 … if we agree we can accept the PR as it would be good to have what's in VSS in VSSo 15:27:27 DanielA: basically having instances is beneficial when you want to point to a concept from another ontology. that was the case with dynamic vehicle properties 15:28:12 … I haven't worked with vehicle component concept and whether it would be better as a subclass 15:28:21 q- 15:29:08 Felix: vehicle component is similar to VSS branch, giving some details about where the property is coming from 15:29:39 … so far we haven't added properties nor subclasses to existing 15:31:17 Daniel: right now as we're generating the information and don't see anything on top we have two choices: leave it out or add as instances 15:31:49 Felix: what we can introduce later on is introduce a subclass structure later 15:32:17 s/introduce later/do later/ 15:32:47 DanielA: what I have seen in other models is adoption is difficult if knowledge is in too many domains. keeping the model simple will help with adoption 15:33:21 … I would support components as instances for now 15:33:22 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/05/16-auto-minutes.html ted 15:35:09 s/Issues and Pull Requests/Pull Requests/ 15:35:13 Topic: Issues 15:35:19 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/05/16-auto-minutes.html ted 15:35:53 https://github.com/w3c/vsso/issues/13 15:37:03 DanielA: by what concept is the unit to be defined? 15:37:33 Daniel: anyone want to propose an idea or does someone want to work on for next time 15:37:45 Felix: haven't formed my thoughts yet 15:37:58 DanielA: I have some notes and can bring forward an idea for next time 15:38:20 Daniel: use slack to discuss in meantime or this github issue and tag Felix 15:39:35 https://github.com/w3c/vsso/issues/37 15:40:27 Daniel: currently we use branch structure to create unique names. the main goal is to avoid overlaps/conflicts 15:40:37 … a better way would be appreciated 15:40:58 https://github.com/w3c/vsso/issues/34 15:41:32 DanielA: this is making the description more consistent, using position in the vehicle. I suggested using the union as the domain 15:43:04 Pierre-Antione: it makes the ontology a bit more complex but the right way semantically would be to use the union approach 15:43:25 … another way would be to create a superclass of vehicle property or component 15:44:01 … this trick has the advantage of only needing RDF schema (not OWL) 15:44:17 … there are trade offs 15:44:50 DanielA: positionedAt property can be used to tie to vehicle component 15:45:01 Felix: I'm a bit confused 15:45:09 Daniel: its about position eg front left 15:45:46 Pierre-Antione: union is correct but a string interpretation. once you set the axiom it cannot be anything else 15:46:19 … if you want a more relaxed association with position then a union would be weaker and not used 15:46:36 Felix: understand. I would express it the same way, you want to know where you can use this property 15:46:56 DanielA: can you remind me the range for positionAt property? 15:47:11 s/positionAt/positionedAt/ 15:47:12 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/05/16-auto-minutes.html ted 15:48:56 Daniel: the sentiment I heard was more a leaning toward union representation but can leave this issue open for further discussion 15:49:18 DanielA: looking at resulting ontology and query difficulty would help 15:49:48 Daniel: from the association perspective it doesn't change 15:51:03 … if someone can prepare PR with examples that would help and be used to improve the documentation 15:51:45 https://github.com/w3c/vsso/issues/33 15:52:25 DanielA: this is more about making use explicit 15:52:39 Daniel: that's fine, any other opinion? 15:52:42 Felix: I agree 15:53:20 https://github.com/w3c/vsso/issues/31 15:53:44 DanielA: this will depend on component relationship. we are using hierarchy from VSS 15:54:15 … root is vehicle and partOf could handle this 15:54:48 Felix: in the diagram it is a transitive property 15:55:07 DanielA: but I think the intention is to have this functionality 15:55:31 Felix: for me it is redundant 15:56:10 Daniel: when discussing relationship between vehicle and components it might indeed be redundant 15:57:14 Pierre-Antione: partOfVehicle is for when there is an instance of a vehicle. we want a hierarchy that does not depend on any specific vehicle 16:00:22 Daniel: it needs an example and more thinking 16:00:26 Felix: exactly 16:00:49 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/05/16-auto-minutes.html ted 19:37:36 pchampin has joined #auto 19:38:08 Zakim has left #auto