IRC log of i18n on 2022-05-12

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:38:27 [RRSAgent]
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logging to
13:38:32 [Zakim]
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13:38:47 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
13:38:50 [trackbot]
Meeting: Internationalization Working Group Teleconference
13:38:50 [trackbot]
Date: 12 May 2022
13:38:50 [agendabot]
13:38:50 [agendabot]
clear agenda
13:38:50 [agendabot]
agenda+ Agenda Review
13:38:50 [agendabot]
agenda+ Action Items
13:38:53 [agendabot]
agenda+ Info Share
13:38:55 [agendabot]
agenda+ RADAR Review
13:38:57 [agendabot]
agenda+ Pending Issue Review
13:39:00 [agendabot]
agenda+ Pull-Request on specdev
13:39:02 [agendabot]
agenda+ DOMException localizability
13:39:04 [agendabot]
agenda+ String-Meta progress
13:39:07 [agendabot]
agenda+ AOB?
13:41:03 [addison]
agenda+ Personalization
13:41:16 [addison]
agenda+ WSGL identifier comparison
13:41:24 [addison]
Chair: Addison Phillips
13:41:30 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate addison
13:53:12 [David]
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13:56:42 [addison]
13:59:23 [xfq]
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13:59:37 [addison]
present+ David, Atsushi
13:59:49 [addison]
present+ Richard
14:00:58 [addison]
present+ JcK
14:01:11 [nordzilla]
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14:01:30 [addison]
present+ Fuqiao
14:03:02 [fsasaki]
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14:03:12 [addison]
present+ Erik
14:03:20 [addison]
present+ Bert
14:04:59 [addison]
14:05:24 [addison]
present+ Felix
14:05:56 [addison]
zakim, take up agendum 1
14:05:56 [Zakim]
agendum 1 -- Agenda Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:05:57 [xfq]
scribe: xfq
14:06:20 [addison]
zakim, take up agendum 2
14:06:20 [Zakim]
agendum 2 -- Action Items -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:06:29 [addison]
14:06:52 [JcK]
Richard: thanks. I've already beaten the current crew up with most of that
14:07:02 [xfq]
addison: I've started to work on the timezone note
14:07:23 [xfq]
... I think I want to retire the time zone proposal action item
14:07:49 [xfq]
... will work on backwards deletion soon
14:08:14 [xfq]
close ACTION-437
14:08:14 [trackbot]
Closed ACTION-437.
14:09:13 [xfq]
close ACTION-1140
14:09:13 [trackbot]
Closed ACTION-1140.
14:09:56 [xfq]
Bert: Proposed text with r12a, haven't responded to issue #996 yet
14:10:11 [xfq]
close ACTION-1143
14:10:11 [trackbot]
Closed ACTION-1143.
14:10:29 [xfq]
close ACTION-1144
14:10:29 [trackbot]
Closed ACTION-1144.
14:10:31 [r12a]
close ACTION-1142
14:10:31 [trackbot]
Closed ACTION-1142.
14:10:35 [xfq]
close ACTION-1145
14:10:35 [trackbot]
Closed ACTION-1145.
14:10:52 [xfq]
close ACTION-1146
14:10:52 [trackbot]
Closed ACTION-1146.
14:11:12 [xfq]
close ACTION-1147
14:11:12 [trackbot]
Closed ACTION-1147.
14:11:46 [xfq]
close ACTION-1148
14:11:46 [trackbot]
Closed ACTION-1148.
14:11:51 [r12a]
14:11:56 [xfq]
close ACTION-1149
14:11:56 [trackbot]
Closed ACTION-1149.
14:12:08 [xfq]
close ACTION-1150
14:12:09 [trackbot]
Closed ACTION-1150.
14:12:20 [addison]
zakim, take up agendum 3
14:12:21 [Zakim]
agendum 3 -- Info Share -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:12:26 [xfq]
14:13:03 [xfq]
r12a: I was a little concerned because our meeting agenda will go to the public list instead of the member list
14:13:15 [xfq]
... I sent an email to vivien
14:13:31 [xfq]
... he said the public list is db-backed
14:14:19 [xfq]
... Mark Davis is on the member list but not the public list, but I suspect that's because he's one of the people who don't want to received lots of emails
14:14:48 [xfq]
... there's no way to change where the agenda should go to
14:15:26 [xfq]
... if we want to schedule something we don't want other people to know about, and we dont' want to send it to public, but that doesn't seem to occur anyway
14:15:41 [xfq]
... so i don't think there's any way we can do anything
14:15:55 [xfq]
addison: the public list gets all of our digest
14:16:34 [xfq]
r12a: all of our actions also go to the public list anyway
14:16:48 [r12a]
14:16:54 [xfq]
... i'm looking at the member list, not a lot of things other than agenda+
14:17:02 [xfq]
... and regrets
14:18:02 [xfq]
r12a: the public list doesn't have more subscribers than the member list
14:18:14 [xfq]
... the subscribers are mostly the same
14:18:45 [xfq]
... there isn't really anything we can do about it
14:18:56 [xfq]
... the only thing we can do is to use the member list less
14:19:04 [xfq]
ack me
14:19:18 [xfq]
14:20:19 [xfq]
xfq: we'd like the Groups to answer the survey on Group attendance at TPAC by the end of this month
14:21:00 [addison]
action: addison: fill in TPAC logistics survey
14:21:00 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-1151 - Fill in tpac logistics survey [on Addison Phillips - due 2022-05-19].
14:21:21 [xfq]
14:21:49 [xfq]
xfq: health rules ^
14:22:38 [addison]
14:23:14 [addison]
zakim, take up agendum 4
14:23:14 [Zakim]
agendum 4 -- RADAR Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:23:21 [xfq]
r12a: I got an email from @@ about all kinds of counter styles
14:23:22 [addison]
14:23:48 [xfq]
xfq: two incoming requests
14:24:13 [xfq]
14:25:04 [xfq]
addison: Web Neural Network API and MiniApp Lifecycle
14:25:53 [xfq]
... atsushi to review WebNN
14:26:02 [xfq]
... addison and Bert to review MiniApp Lifecycle
14:27:06 [xfq]
atsushi: did not find anything else except the existing pending issues
14:27:39 [xfq]
addison: any objections on moving CSS Custom Highlight API Module Level 1 to completed?
14:27:45 [xfq]
14:27:56 [addison]
14:29:16 [addison]
zakim, take up agendum 10
14:29:16 [Zakim]
agendum 10 -- Personalization -- taken up [from addison]
14:29:23 [addison]
14:29:29 [xfq]
14:29:36 [xfq]
14:29:44 [addison]
fuqiao: they are moving towards CR
14:29:58 [xfq]
14:30:09 [addison]
... all four issues raised by addison
14:30:20 [addison]
... they closed this issue, believe it is fixed
14:30:20 [xfq]
14:30:50 [addison]
... can close
14:30:55 [addison]
addison: no objection
14:31:03 [xfq]
14:32:31 [addison]
(close, recycle)
14:32:34 [xfq]
14:34:51 [xfq]
14:35:18 [addison]
addison: they are duplicating a list from html, others have also
14:37:24 [xfq]
David: I think it's bad form but sometimes people need to say "exactly this" like WCAG x.x or HTML x.x
14:37:26 [addison]
David: also think it is bad form, but working in an environment where required to do "exactly X"
14:39:14 [xfq]
addison: any objections on accepting this?
14:39:29 [xfq]
14:40:38 [xfq]
xfq: close this
14:40:49 [addison]
zakim, take up agendum 11
14:40:49 [Zakim]
agendum 11 -- WSGL identifier comparison -- taken up [from addison]
14:40:57 [xfq]
14:41:07 [xfq]
14:41:37 [addison]
fuqiao: they already copied our green box from specdev
14:41:43 [addison]
... that lgtm
14:41:53 [addison]
... the other is to use 'idential to' or 'is' from Infra
14:42:11 [addison]
... but they chose not to use deliberately because Infra uses code units
14:42:16 [addison]
... but they want to use code points
14:43:04 [addison]
addison: effectively the same thing
14:43:23 [xfq]
Two WGSL identifiers are the same if and only if they consist of the same sequence of code points.
14:44:21 [xfq]
addison: the second note is still kind of scary
14:44:57 [xfq]
r12a: it's in a note so I'm assuming this is just a suggestion
14:45:20 [xfq]
addison: their definition of homographs is weird
14:45:47 [xfq]
... i think they need to say something like visually the same or visually confusable
14:46:19 [xfq]
r12a: but i think that might be a separate issue
14:46:21 [xfq]
addison: could be
14:47:18 [xfq]
addison: are we good?
14:47:49 [xfq]
xfq: for this issue we are satisfied and can close the tracker, right?
14:47:52 [xfq]
addison: yeah
14:47:55 [addison]
14:48:08 [addison]
zakim, take up agendum 6
14:48:08 [Zakim]
agendum 6 -- Pull-Request on specdev -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:48:23 [addison]
14:48:32 [addison]
14:48:47 [xfq]
addison: thank you for your suggestions, r12a
14:48:53 [xfq]
... they're very helpful
14:49:59 [xfq]
r12a: had to retrofit all of your changes to the new version
14:50:16 [xfq]
addison: any objections on the changes I made?
14:50:19 [xfq]
14:50:56 [addison]
14:51:08 [addison]
zakim, take up agendum 7
14:51:08 [Zakim]
agendum 7 -- DOMException localizability -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:51:34 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate xfq
14:51:43 [r12a]
agenda+ Changes to specdev checklists
14:51:51 [addison]
zakim, take up agendum 12
14:51:51 [Zakim]
agendum 12 -- Changes to specdev checklists -- taken up [from r12a]
14:51:56 [r12a]
14:52:22 [xfq]
[r12a shares his screen]
14:52:49 [xfq]
r12a: i made big changes to the specdev checklist
14:52:52 [xfq]
... for three reasons
14:53:02 [xfq]
... 1. the checklist is too long
14:53:10 [xfq]
... need a more effcient way
14:53:34 [xfq]
... basically what they say to do a checklist, you go to the section which is relevant
14:53:55 [xfq]
... most of the specs are relevant to language and direction but nothing else
14:54:19 [xfq]
... before we had to click all the section headings
14:54:29 [xfq]
... now we need only click once
14:55:22 [xfq]
... you don't have to click on two checkboxes, you only need to click the second one if it's relevant and you have fixed it
14:55:57 [xfq]
... we can get away from the wiki
14:56:19 [xfq]
... we can do a short checklist and a long checklist in a github issue
14:56:35 [xfq]
... all on the same page now
14:57:18 [xfq]
... you couldn't change check marks on the wiki
14:57:25 [Bert]
q+ to suggest that the ‘generate markup’ button can be replaced with an automatically updating function.
14:58:16 [xfq]
David: language and direction are pretty much relevant to every spec and we can make it checked by default
14:58:24 [xfq]
r12a: ok, thank you
14:58:58 [xfq]
... it's actually less work than before
14:59:24 [xfq]
... previously you couldn't see the wood for the trees
14:59:53 [xfq]
... the short list says "also check the long list"
15:00:04 [xfq]
addison: we're doing away from the short checklist?
15:00:06 [xfq]
r12a: no
15:00:44 [xfq]
... you go through the short checklist to find which is relevant
15:00:58 [xfq]
... then you go through the long checklist to check the details
15:01:28 [xfq]
addison: I think the short checklist doesn't refer to every section in specdev
15:01:30 [xfq]
r12a: yes
15:02:05 [xfq]
... because it's short
15:02:31 [xfq]
Bert: the button that generates the markdown
15:02:44 [xfq]
... why not generate the button automatically?
15:02:46 [xfq]
ack bert
15:02:46 [Zakim]
Bert, you wanted to suggest that the ‘generate markup’ button can be replaced with an automatically updating function.
15:03:01 [xfq]
r12a: yes
15:03:44 [xfq]
Bert: people might forget to click the button again after changing the checkboxes
15:06:09 [xfq]
r12a: i'm starting to think maybe we should start copying the character model to specdev
15:07:07 [Bert]
(Not a fan of pages opening in a new tab/window, unless I do that myself with a right-click. I often do not notice that a tab opened and then get confused why the back button doesn't work...)
15:08:34 [xfq]
r12a: will do experiment on section 4.1
15:08:49 [xfq]
addison: charmod has grown old
15:09:32 [addison]
15:09:39 [xfq]
r12a: readability improvement and the opportunity to update the information
15:09:51 [addison]
zakim, take up agendum 9
15:09:51 [Zakim]
agendum 9 -- AOB? -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:10:00 [xfq]
rrsagent, make minutes
15:10:00 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate xfq
15:11:08 [addison]
zakim, who is here?
15:11:08 [Zakim]
Present: addison, David, Atsushi, Richard, JcK, Fuqiao, Erik, Bert, Felix
15:11:10 [Zakim]
On IRC I see fsasaki, nordzilla, JcK, David, Zakim, RRSAgent, addison, r12a, atsushi, bigbluehat, fantasai, csarven, agendabot, Mek, koji, hsivonen, eemeli, astearns, Bert,
15:11:10 [Zakim]
... florian, sangwhan, cwilso, hadleybeeman, trackbot
15:11:26 [addison]
zakim, bye
15:11:26 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees have been addison, David, Atsushi, Richard, JcK, Fuqiao, Erik, Bert, Felix
15:11:26 [Zakim]
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