12:59:41 RRSAgent has joined #a11y-functional 12:59:41 logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/05/10-a11y-functional-irc 13:00:13 Meeting: A11y Functional Needs 13:02:21 Scribe: JakeAbma 13:02:53 present+ 13:03:24 present+ Lisa, Rain 13:03:46 Rain_ has joined #a11y-functional 13:03:48 present+ 13:03:52 present+ 13:04:03 present+ Janina 13:04:12 Lisa has joined #a11y-functional 13:06:07 agenda+ Co-ord with COGA and update on functional needs 13:06:17 janina has joined #a11y-functional 13:06:30 agenda+ Jeanne and Mary Jo's feedback on the User Needs/Outcomes document 13:06:39 agenda+ Deceptive patterns 13:06:43 agenda+ AOB 13:06:44 zakim, who's here? 13:07:15 Zakim has joined #a11y-functional 13:07:22 zakim, who's here? 13:07:22 Present: (no one) 13:07:24 On IRC I see janina, Lisa, Rain_, RRSAgent, Joshue108, JakeAbma, MichaelC 13:07:34 zakim, take up item one 13:07:34 I see nothing on the agenda 13:07:49 TOPIC: Co-ord with COGA and update on functional needs 13:08:05 Scribe: JakeAbma 13:09:01 LS: we were pointed at the Functional needs list, liked basics, also had questions 13:09:57 LS: great if more people look at it and also do some coordination with COGA 13:10:25 q+ 13:11:05 did you see https://www.w3.org/TR/coga-user-research/#research-on-cognitive-function 13:11:07 ack janina 13:11:37 JS: COGA already done a lot of work 13:11:48 Q+ 13:12:47 JS: a summary of COGA document is wished for by people 13:12:50 ack Lisa 13:13:02 q+ to speak to Janinas point about Content Usable 13:13:09 did you see https://www.w3.org/TR/coga-user-research/#research-on-cognitive-function 13:14:16 We also have the very high level list that we use for presentations: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1YeqvkeE6xbh8yAAUvliA6v4MqbLsj28dFxzRcMyGTz0/edit#slide=id.gf91fe473a4_0_8 13:16:22 ack Josh 13:16:22 Joshue, you wanted to speak to Janinas point about Content Usable 13:16:41 LS: brain works in different ways for different parts, not 'one-size-fits-all' 13:18:06 JOC: we try to keep it broad, granularity is good but we also want broader version for developers, UX designers, etc.. 13:18:19 https://w3c.github.io/apa/fast/ 13:18:59 https://w3c.github.io/apa/fast/#inventory-user-needs 13:19:15 https://docs.google.com/document/d/16ZeCqTRTY0lmWvp1Xv_wO0iH1OzyECBa1UXQ_UeocjQ/edit# 13:19:25 https://w3c.github.io/fast/ 13:19:35 Todd has joined #a11y-functional 13:19:40 present+ 13:20:03 https://w3c.github.io/fast/#inventory-functional-and-user-needs 13:20:42 https://w3c.github.io/fast/#develop-matrix-of-functional-and-user-needs 13:21:55 https://w3c.github.io/fast/#develop-matrix-of-functional-and-user-needs 13:22:06 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1POhgI_xHZtSoNbHFp3r5HYIkl6ePaP8DC5d90SZ1tF4/edit#gid=752043294 13:22:48 q? 13:25:32 JA: What do you mean about Safety? 13:26:06 LS: I can handle issues of nuance, but in the context of mental health there are a slew of other issues. 13:26:36 Some wont access mental health services due to fear of being exposed (as having a problem) for example 13:26:58 JA: In our matrix Safety is not a category that is essential - we considered removing 13:27:35 JOC: +1 to Jake - there was a scope issue with this work 13:27:54 JA: Exactly - Todd also had good insight into this. 13:27:58 q? 13:28:03 https://www.w3.org/TR/coga-usable/#appendix-mapping-user-needs-personas-and-patterns 13:28:22 LS: We have mapped patterns and scenarios to user stories 13:28:59 JA: I can give some background 13:29:23 13:29:40 our user needs: https://www.w3.org/TR/coga-usable/#user_needs 13:30:14 There is little consistency - we were thinking how we can create clear user needs and outcomes - we decided that we need a rather high level list. Not too granular. 13:30:48 JA: In the end we were looking for high level 13:31:05 q+ to introduce Deceptive patterns 13:31:42 JA: What are the deltas that give us requirements? 13:31:47 q+ 13:32:23 Higher level consistent user need list - is what we wanted 13:32:46 LS: We have an issue that WCAG did not cover COGA needs sufficiently. 13:32:55 q+ 13:33:19 There are issues of partial support etc - we need to do a review of that - and introduce mental health issues 13:33:48 LS: WCAG lacks COGA needs, so we need to see where we may add missing parts 13:34:23 ack todd 13:35:01 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WKGPMiDL8CKcXWr0md09ZLwZEPdoxeNTNQsf8IuszqQ/edit#heading=h.6flbja9pmm8c 13:35:36 JOC: also worked on Deceptive Pattern and possible Outcomes 13:35:44 q+ on concerns to deceptive patterns 13:36:18 ack me 13:36:19 Joshue, you wanted to introduce Deceptive patterns 13:36:34 ack jan 13:38:16 JS: like the high level User Needs layer, COGA can more deep and also that is worthy, the high level abstraction is very usable though 13:38:55 ack rai 13:39:25 RM: what would be the next steps? 13:39:48 q+ 13:40:32 JOC: we spend much time on high level User Needs, that one needs to be looked at 13:41:31 JOC: done multiple experiments, looking for next focus 13:41:44 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1POhgI_xHZtSoNbHFp3r5HYIkl6ePaP8DC5d90SZ1tF4/edit#gid=752043294 13:42:29 Is it worth screensharing in order to make sure we are looking at the right thing? 13:43:05 thank you 13:48:55 LS: not sure if Funtional Needs match our list / work 13:51:15 https://docs.google.com/document/d/16ZeCqTRTY0lmWvp1Xv_wO0iH1OzyECBa1UXQ_UeocjQ/edit#heading=h.4jiwp8jpc143 13:52:29 q+ to agree with Jake , we just want to map them 13:55:28 JA: Functional needs list might be best candidate to focus on now 13:59:07 q? 13:59:13 ack lisa 13:59:13 Lisa, you wanted to comment on concerns to deceptive patterns and to agree with Jake , we just want to map them 13:59:16 ack jake 14:00:02 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:00:02 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/05/10-a11y-functional-minutes.html Joshue108 14:00:09 janina has left #a11y-functional 14:00:26 rrsagent, make log public 16:04:33 Zakim has left #a11y-functional 16:15:47 MichaelC has joined #a11y-functional