IRC log of wot-script on 2022-05-09

Timestamps are in UTC.

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logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/05/09-wot-script-irc
11:02:42 [kaz]
present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Jan_Romann
11:02:49 [kaz]
meeting: WoT Scripting API
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present+ Daniel_Peintner, Tomoaki_Mizushima, Zoltan_Kis
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11:07:08 [dape]
TOPIC: Previous minutes
11:07:20 [dape]
-> May-2 -> https://www.w3.org/2022/05/02-wot-script-minutes.html
11:07:28 [cris_]
topic: minutes review
11:07:47 [cris_]
dape: reviewed a list of issues
11:07:57 [cris_]
... issue 392 is stalled
11:08:34 [cris_]
... we also discussed consumer cleanup
11:08:38 [cris_]
... it was a short meeting
11:08:49 [cris_]
... minutes approved?
11:08:53 [cris_]
... ok
11:09:09 [cris_]
topic: PRs
11:09:22 [kaz]
i|Previous minutes|scribenick: cris_|
11:09:26 [kaz]
rrsagent, make log public
11:09:30 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
11:09:30 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/05/09-wot-script-minutes.html kaz
11:09:33 [cris_]
dape: two PRs: one stalled and one from Cristiano
11:09:50 [cris_]
... Cristiano's PR is about cli sync failures
11:10:04 [cris_]
subtopic: PR 397
11:10:30 [cris_]
dape: there's a sync action that pull changes from TD repository and check updates on the schema
11:12:56 [cris_]
cris: just a minor change to prevent git failing due to dirty stage
11:13:10 [cris_]
dape: ok let's try if it solves the issue
11:13:22 [cris_]
... is it ok for everybody?
11:13:27 [cris_]
... ok merged
11:14:03 [cris_]
topic: Issues
11:14:15 [cris_]
subtopic: issue 396
11:14:28 [dape]
-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-scripting-api/issues/396
11:14:30 [cris_]
dape: Internally in siemens we discussed about the disvoery process
11:14:49 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
11:14:49 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/05/09-wot-script-minutes.html kaz
11:15:00 [cris_]
... currently the discovery conformace class it was more sofisticated
11:15:13 [cris_]
... we could do mutliple types of discovery
11:15:17 [cris_]
... even local
11:15:26 [cris_]
... now we simplified it with just two methods
11:15:32 [cris_]
... direct and directory
11:15:47 [cris_]
... we are discussing to bring some functionlaties back like local
11:15:56 [kaz]
agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Scripting_API_WebConf#9_May_2022
11:16:02 [cris_]
... keep in mind that the discovery process is split in twos
11:16:05 [cris_]
... introduction
11:16:13 [cris_]
.... and exploration
11:16:24 [cris_]
... the discovery goal is very simple
11:16:26 [cris_]
... get a TD
11:16:26 [kaz]
chair: Daniel
11:16:36 [cris_]
... is similar to "fetch"
11:17:09 [kaz]
s/topic: minutes review//
11:17:37 [cris_]
... supporting the whole Discovery spec it gets complicated
11:17:49 [kaz]
s|-> May-2 -> https://www.w3.org/2022/05/02-wot-script-minutes.html|-">https://www.w3.org/2022/05/02-wot-script-minutes.html|-> https://www.w3.org/2022/05/02-wot-script-minutes.html May-2|
11:17:52 [cris_]
... maybe it easier right now to narrow the scope
11:18:16 [cris_]
zoltan: what is the beginning and the end of the process from the API point of view.
11:18:41 [cris_]
dape: my point is that do we need really this complex interface?
11:18:51 [cris_]
... maybe fetch is already sufficient
11:18:59 [kaz]
i|there's a sync a|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-scripting-api/pull/397 PR 397 - fix(cli): use autostash option when pulling|
11:19:12 [cris_]
... what is local?
11:19:30 [cris_]
zoltan: the definition is still a To do in our spec
11:20:13 [kaz]
s|/issues/396|/issues/396 Issue 396 - The future of the conformance class WoT Discovery|
11:20:17 [cris_]
... are you suggesting that from a directly I can fetch a list of urls that we can directly download later?
11:20:19 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
11:20:19 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/05/09-wot-script-minutes.html kaz
11:20:20 [cris_]
q+
11:20:35 [cris_]
dape: good point
11:21:12 [cris_]
... in practise if I want to discovery TD using Bluetooth
11:21:27 [cris_]
... I would use a bluetooth library
11:21:37 [cris_]
... and configure it in a bunch of ways
11:21:47 [cris_]
... and probably do additional steps
11:21:56 [cris_]
... there's a lot of details
11:22:05 [cris_]
... and local is even harder to define
11:22:16 [cris_]
zoltan: what do people do in plug fest?
11:22:19 [cris_]
dape: direct
11:22:48 [cris_]
... and directory
11:23:27 [cris_]
zoltan: the discovery API should tackle with how to retrieve TDs
11:23:56 [cris_]
cris: m-DNS was also used in plug fest
11:24:06 [cris_]
q?
11:24:30 [cris_]
zoltan: we have a clear chain
11:24:44 [cris_]
... discovery gets TDs and consume use them
11:25:02 [cris_]
... we need to stick with the frequenty use case
11:28:27 [cris_]
cris: I suggest to read section 5 of the discovery spec
11:28:34 [cris_]
... it helps the discussion a lot
11:29:11 [cris_]
zoltan: still not clear how it connects with what other platforms does in the provisining phase
11:30:13 [cris_]
... we can use the document to engeneer APIs
11:30:25 [cris_]
... and maybe ask for review to the Discovery API
11:30:41 [cris_]
s/Discovery API/discovery task force/
11:30:54 [cris_]
dape: we removed fetch
11:31:20 [cris_]
... because we would need to provide working code for every URLs
11:31:54 [cris_]
q+
11:32:35 [cris_]
... with the introduction mechanisims is the same
11:32:41 [cris_]
... you'll get a mess
11:33:06 [dape]
q?
11:33:07 [cris_]
zoltan: but we can choose one, the spec describe a general implementation the API can be one of those
11:33:19 [cris_]
... we should follow the use cases
11:33:36 [cris_]
... when you open protocol specific it becames difficult to write applications
11:33:49 [cris_]
... that's the whole point of WoT
11:33:49 [zkis__]
q?
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11:34:08 [cris_]
dape: if you want to provide support for direct with direct
11:34:20 [cris_]
... we still have a problem to support any URI scheme
11:34:41 [cris_]
... in the past we concluded that you can do it outside from the scripting api
11:37:17 [cris_]
cris: not any URL schema but just the one supported by WoT
11:40:00 [cris_]
dape: not sure if there is some benifts of having a discovery API
11:40:09 [cris_]
... Jan do you have any feedback ?
11:40:17 [cris_]
... do you see the benifit of having this API?
11:40:41 [cris_]
Jan: coap multicast would be nice to have
11:40:58 [cris_]
... but it could be implemented outside
11:41:03 [cris_]
... simplifing the api
11:41:34 [cris_]
... introduction and explorartion phases are a little bit hard to understand
11:44:10 [cris_]
cris: but still we need a sort of discovery API to build "cross-platform" application
11:44:13 [JKRhb]
q+
11:44:19 [cris_]
ack cris
11:44:31 [cris_]
dape: we also discussed to split the API in two
11:44:48 [cris_]
... because they have different security requirements
11:45:17 [cris_]
... but I see the benifits of having such of API but I'm start thinking it's hard to achive
11:45:31 [cris_]
zoltan: hub setsups are pretty common
11:46:07 [cris_]
... so directory method might be use 90% of the times
11:46:14 [dape]
s/setsups/setups
11:46:15 [cris_]
... provisioning is out of scope
11:46:47 [JKRhb]
q-
11:47:41 [cris_]
... I think we should understand the requirements described in the discovery spec
11:47:43 [cris_]
dape: I agree
11:47:57 [cris_]
... going back on use cases
11:48:21 [cris_]
... are you sure that discovery is the most common?
11:48:45 [cris_]
s/discovery/directory
11:48:52 [cris_]
zoltan: we have to ask
11:49:05 [cris_]
dape: maybe multi cast is more used
11:49:59 [cris_]
cris: sometimes is even mixed with directory + m-DNS
11:51:05 [cris_]
zoltan: we eventually defined local bluetooth, wifi and NFC
11:51:25 [cris_]
cris: maybe generilize saying radio protocols?
11:51:46 [cris_]
dape: how should we proceed ?
11:51:55 [cris_]
... should we continue the discussion on the issue
11:52:07 [cris_]
zoltan: we can even talk about API design
11:52:25 [cris_]
... we can forward the task to the discovery task force
11:54:05 [JKRhb]
https://github.com/namib-project/node-red-contrib-wot-discovery
11:54:18 [cris_]
Jan: multicast we have a library in node-red
11:54:41 [cris_]
... but for security reasons is deprected in most scenarios.
11:55:03 [cris_]
dape: in the end is up to the runtime like node-wot
11:57:33 [cris_]
cris: proposal, why don't we try to discuss the requirements and API design in the issue
11:57:43 [cris_]
... and after talk with the Discovery Task force
11:57:56 [cris_]
dape: yes
11:58:04 [cris_]
... we used a lot of time in discovery
11:58:08 [cris_]
... but it was worth it
11:58:18 [cris_]
... we are getting a lot of issues on it
11:59:35 [cris_]
adjourned
11:59:44 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
11:59:44 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/05/09-wot-script-minutes.html kaz
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