IRC log of pcg-a11y on 2022-05-05
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 13:54:01 [RRSAgent]
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- logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/05/05-pcg-a11y-irc
- 13:54:45 [GeorgeK]
- meeting: PCG sub-taskforce on accessibilitySummary
- 13:55:20 [GeorgeK]
- date: 05 May 2022
- 13:55:35 [GeorgeK]
- rrsagent, bookmark
- 13:55:35 [RRSAgent]
- See https://www.w3.org/2022/05/05-pcg-a11y-irc#T13-55-35
- 13:55:44 [GeorgeK]
- rrsagent, make log public
- 13:56:08 [GeorgeK]
- chair: GeorgeK
- 13:56:15 [GeorgeK]
- present+
- 13:57:01 [PascalCalarco]
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- 14:00:04 [TerenceSmyre]
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- 14:01:56 [CharlesL]
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- 14:02:00 [gpellegrino]
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- 14:02:03 [CharlesL]
- present+
- 14:02:11 [Naomi]
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- 14:02:11 [AlexGrover]
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- 14:02:16 [gpellegrino]
- present+
- 14:02:19 [AlexGrover]
- present+
- 14:02:19 [Naomi]
- present+
- 14:02:31 [CharlesL]
- rrsagent, make logs public
- 14:02:40 [CharlesL]
- present+
- 14:02:42 [CharlesL]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 14:02:42 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/05/05-pcg-a11y-minutes.html CharlesL
- 14:03:54 [gpellegrino]
- scribe+
- 14:04:11 [PascalCalarco]
- scribe+
- 14:04:21 [GeorgeK]
- topic: 1.Review summary text up to h2 What to Include in the AccessibilitySummary
- 14:04:37 [gpellegrino]
- GeorgeK: Hi, I'm George
- 14:04:52 [gpellegrino]
- ... this is one first topic
- 14:05:42 [Christopher_Carr]
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- 14:06:13 [gpellegrino]
- ... are the links in the document corret?
- 14:06:43 [gpellegrino]
- https://htmlpreview.github.io/?https://github.com/w3c/publ-a11y/blob/main/drafts/schema-a11y-summary/index.html
- 14:08:06 [PascalCalarco]
- GeorgeK: Thinks the document above looks good. Does anyone have any revisions to suggest?
- 14:08:41 [gpellegrino]
- Rachel: it is fine for me
- 14:09:21 [gpellegrino]
- CharlesL: maybe we should include something about accessibilityFeature = unlocked
- 14:09:34 [gpellegrino]
- ... but this is out of control for publishers
- 14:09:52 [PascalCalarco]
- CharlesL: the publisher may change this later with DRM
- 14:10:10 [Naomi]
- q+
- 14:11:55 [PascalCalarco]
- gpellegrino: Gregario added detail about DRM implementation to specific ebook vendors
- 14:12:22 [CharlesL]
- q+
- 14:12:33 [CharlesL]
- ack Naomi
- 14:13:12 [PascalCalarco]
- Naomi: suggests that retailers need to make this clear in their distribution implementations
- 14:13:31 [gpellegrino]
- q+
- 14:13:53 [CharlesL]
- q+ Rachel
- 14:15:28 [PascalCalarco]
- CharlesL: If a retailer changes something in the ePub, like adding DRM or changing fonts, the metadata needs to be updated but they would not have rights to do so.
- 14:15:42 [CharlesL]
- ack CharlesL
- 14:15:47 [CharlesL]
- ack gpellegrino
- 14:16:32 [PascalCalarco]
- gpellegrino: Agreed, this is not good. Suggests that AccessibilitySummary should be based on ONYX metadata, which is slightly different.
- 14:17:00 [CharlesL]
- ack Rachel
- 14:17:08 [PascalCalarco]
- Naomi: also thinks there is a little leeway in changing metadata with ONYX
- 14:17:22 [CharlesL]
- s/ONYX/ONIX
- 14:17:27 [Vince]
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- 14:18:13 [Vince]
- q+
- 14:18:18 [PascalCalarco]
- RachelComerford: adds that MathML will be rendered as images instead of MathML, with Amazon, for example
- 14:18:40 [CharlesL]
- ack Vince
- 14:20:04 [PascalCalarco]
- Vince: These issues are something we are experiencing right now, regarding MathML and also CSS rendering for mobile and desktop browser, which render differently depending on OS, browser, etc. Requires a lot of research.
- 14:21:57 [PascalCalarco]
- GeorgeK: Suggests that we leave the publisher metadata alone. Gregorio, with the ONYX metadata, you are inserting this into the ePub?
- 14:22:38 [Michelle_]
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- 14:22:51 [Michelle_]
- present
- 14:23:09 [PascalCalarco]
- gpellegrino: all of the metadata for our ebooks is based on ONYX.
- 14:23:15 [TerenceSmyre]
- q+
- 14:24:29 [CharlesL]
- ack TerenceSmyre
- 14:24:33 [PascalCalarco]
- GeorgeL: If you do not have access to the raw EPUB, this guideline needs to tell you how to use ONYX metadata to AccessibilitySummary
- 14:25:25 [PascalCalarco]
- TerenceSmyre: University presses are (I missed this point Terrence)
- 14:25:35 [CharlesL]
- s/ONYX/ONIX
- 14:27:34 [PascalCalarco]
- Naomi: Does not have access to ONIX feed. Need to improve understanding on publisher end.
- 14:28:50 [PascalCalarco]
- GeorgeL: If we are providing guidance on AccessibilitySummary, do we need to be specific on where to get it from ONIX? Do AccessibilityHazards need to be in AccessibilitySummary?
- 14:29:41 [CharlesL]
- q+
- 14:29:42 [PascalCalarco]
- gpellegrino: perhaps we can add any metadata from ONIX or others into AccessibilitySummary
- 14:30:30 [PascalCalarco]
- Naomi: If we can add this, we can easily add this to flow into ONIX
- 14:30:36 [gpellegrino]
- q+
- 14:31:26 [PascalCalarco]
- GeorgeL: We need to have text added regarding the ONIX comments Gregorio has made
- 14:32:57 [CharlesL]
- ack CharlesL
- 14:33:06 [CharlesL]
- ack gpellegrino
- 14:34:17 [PascalCalarco]
- gpellegrino: our experience: can we combine metadata from different descriptions into AccessibilitySummary?
- 14:34:38 [CharlesL]
- q+
- 14:35:02 [PascalCalarco]
- GeorgeL: This may result in too verbose summary; what is essential needs to be included
- 14:36:05 [PascalCalarco]
- GeorgeL: It needs to be succinct for the user
- 14:36:48 [PascalCalarco]
- GeorgeL: perhaps a limit between 1k-2k characters
- 14:36:57 [PascalCalarco]
- gpellegrino: agreed
- 14:36:59 [CharlesL]
- ack CharlesL
- 14:37:52 [PascalCalarco]
- CharlesL: agreed. Much of this is built into EPUB structure; if one of these is not, then we call it out in AccessibilitySummary
- 14:38:50 [PascalCalarco]
- GeorgeK: many users do not appreciate all the features in an EPUB or WCAG details, for example
- 14:39:42 [PascalCalarco]
- GeorgeK: images need to be tagged and screen reader friendly
- 14:40:19 [Naomi]
- q+
- 14:40:26 [CharlesL]
- q+
- 14:40:46 [PascalCalarco]
- GeorgeK: Do we need an introduction to produce a compact statement with most important info first, and recommending it not exceed 2k characters
- 14:42:06 [CharlesL]
- ack Naomi
- 14:42:09 [PascalCalarco]
- Naomi: specifying order would be helpful, a production person in a publisher may not know what is important and what isn't
- 14:42:11 [CharlesL]
- ack CharlesL
- 14:42:50 [PascalCalarco]
- CharlesL: we could add in a priority column, on Naomi's point
- 14:44:16 [PascalCalarco]
- CharlesL: AccessibilitySummary - should this focus on pointing out particular features that publishers has added
- 14:45:34 [PascalCalarco]
- GeorgeL: publishers should include ConformsTo statement (WCAG2.1AA)
- 14:46:18 [PascalCalarco]
- CharlesL: reporting errors contact could be included in AccessibilitySummary
- 14:47:28 [PascalCalarco]
- GeorgeK: we want to create an issue of the length of the summary
- 14:47:44 [PascalCalarco]
- GeorgeK: we want to create a column in the table
- 14:48:31 [PascalCalarco]
- GeorgeK: and lastly, give the publisher the ability add feature detail that can't be included elsewhere
- 14:48:46 [CharlesL]
- ACTION: add new issues - length of summary, add priority column, publisher ability to include information features added which can't be expressed in metadata
- 14:49:29 [PascalCalarco]
- RachelComerford: suggest adding something about values changing
- 14:49:59 [CharlesL]
- ACTION: add ONIX examples in the tables
- 14:50:05 [PascalCalarco]
- RachelComerford: Before you start writing" section a line that declares that metadata should be written (and consumed) as coming from the publisher but some values may not be accurate depending on the reading system that is used?
- 14:51:52 [CharlesL]
- ACTION: Add a Note that this is from the Publishers perspective and may be reflected in the RS
- 14:52:06 [PascalCalarco]
- topic: 2. 2.What headings do we need under: What to Include in the AccessibilitySummary
- 14:52:18 [gpellegrino]
- q+
- 14:53:00 [PascalCalarco]
- topic: Display language discussion
- 14:53:56 [PascalCalarco]
- gpellegrino: AccessibilitySummary should be in main language of the book
- 14:54:58 [CharlesL]
- https://github.com/w3c/publ-a11y/issues/94
- 14:55:12 [PascalCalarco]
- GeorgeK: validation doesn't check for XML lang but it can be put it on the Accessibility metadata
- 14:55:56 [gpellegrino]
- q+
- 14:55:56 [PascalCalarco]
- GeorgeK: If there is no value it will be rendered in the language of the reader
- 14:56:17 [CharlesL]
- ack gpellegrino
- 14:56:29 [PascalCalarco]
- GeorgeK: having multiple languages is difficult to implement
- 14:57:39 [PascalCalarco]
- gpellegrino: if I search on Kobo in Italy, it first presents Italian language books; the catalog can put the correct language in the interface, if no value then assume it is in same lang of the book
- 14:58:15 [Naomi]
- q+
- 14:58:28 [PascalCalarco]
- gpellegrino: multiple language statements become complicated
- 14:59:33 [PascalCalarco]
- Naomi: observes that in Canada separate editions will be published for French and English
- 14:59:58 [CharlesL]
- ack Naomi
- 15:00:46 [PascalCalarco]
- Naomi: multiple languages in a book is a very small percentage of content
- 15:01:34 [PascalCalarco]
- GeorgeK: Having one AccessibilitySummary in a single language is the way to go
- 15:01:52 [CharlesL]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 15:01:52 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/05/05-pcg-a11y-minutes.html CharlesL
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- 16:11:11 [CharlesL]
- present+ Rachel
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- 16:12:02 [CharlesL]
- present+ Vince, Pascal
- 16:12:11 [CharlesL]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 16:12:11 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/05/05-pcg-a11y-minutes.html CharlesL
- 16:13:04 [CharlesL]
- present+ Terence
- 16:13:06 [CharlesL]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 16:13:06 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/05/05-pcg-a11y-minutes.html CharlesL
- 16:13:51 [GeorgeK]
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