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11:56:12 <Jaunita_George> Zakim, start meeting
11:56:12 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
11:56:13 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), Jaunita_George
11:56:28 <Jaunita_George> meeting:  AGWG-2022-04-29
11:56:45 <Jaunita_George> chair:  Jaunita George
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11:57:30 <Jaunita_George> agenda+Breakout groups (45 minutes)
11:57:46 <Jaunita_George> agenda+Report out (10 minutes)
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11:58:03 <Jaunita_George> Rrsagent, make logs world
11:58:48 <bruce_bailey> scribe: bruce_bailey
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11:58:57 <JF> Present+
11:58:58 <bruce_bailey> present+
11:59:26 <Jaunita_George> present+
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11:59:47 <JenniferS> present+
12:01:00 <Jaunita_George> zakim, take up first item
12:01:00 <Zakim> I don't understand 'take up first item', Jaunita_George
12:01:53 <Jaunita_George> Zakim, take up item 1
12:01:53 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Breakout groups (45 minutes) -- taken up [from Jaunita_George]
12:02:12 <bruce_bailey> setting up for breakout rooms
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12:02:32 <bruce_bailey> q+
12:02:45 <bruce_bailey> JF asks for clarification
12:03:04 <bruce_bailey> Janita idea is for each group to bring something to larger group
12:03:08 <Rachael> scribe: Rachael
12:03:18 <Rachael> scribe: bruce
12:03:40 <bruce_bailey> Jaunita:  need to bring something to larger AG WG group, maybe definitions of protocols
12:03:53 <bruce_bailey> JF: i am still not clear on task
12:04:08 <bruce_bailey> JF:  are we breaking into two task
12:04:32 <bruce_bailey> Jennifer:  clarifies that it is minimal, finding some cadence
12:05:05 <JakeAbma> present+
12:05:06 <Jaunita_George> ack bruce_bailey
12:05:07 <JakeAbma> q+
12:05:12 <Rachael> present+
12:05:34 <MichaelC> q+ to -1 brain-switching
12:05:54 <Jaunita_George> ack JakeAbma
12:05:54 <bruce_bailey> Jennifer:  hopefully bring something back to larger group
12:06:37 <bruce_bailey> Jake:  Is there such difference between each group, that we are breakup
12:06:46 <bruce_bailey> Jake:  ... why are we splitting up?
12:06:48 <Rachael> Bruce: Suggested working in the same group but just focus on each proposal for 30 minutes
12:06:50 <bruce_bailey> q-
12:07:01 <Jaunita_George> ack MichaelC
12:07:01 <Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to -1 brain-switching
12:07:05 <Rachael> ack MichaelC
12:07:23 <bruce_bailey> MichaelC:  We spent many meeting trying to get to group concensus,
12:07:59 <bruce_bailey> ... meeting jointly has not been productive.  So to move forward, leadership teams wants to try separate groups
12:08:06 <JF> Q+
12:08:17 <Jaunita_George> ack JF
12:08:22 <bruce_bailey> Jaunitia: do we need to vote
12:08:44 <bruce_bailey> JF:  We are struggling to make documents
12:08:57 <Rachael> q+ to respond to documentation
12:09:05 <Jaunita_George> ack Rachael
12:09:05 <Zakim> Rachael, you wanted to respond to documentation
12:09:14 <JenniferS> q+ (maybe doing the same thing as Rachael
12:09:32 <bruce_bailey> JF:  If we split group in two, maybe the lesson is that we should not being trying to work simultaneously
12:09:59 <bruce_bailey> Rachael:  there is not expectation in smaller groups is to scribe, just make progress as notes
12:09:59 <Jaunita_George> ack JenniferS
12:10:36 <bruce_bailey> Jennifer:  We have members of the other group, we do not need to scribe breakout groups, just document some progress and thoughts
12:10:39 <Jaunita_George> +1 to JenniferS
12:10:42 <Rachael> +1
12:10:57 <JenniferS> +1
12:10:59 <bruce_bailey> ... we have had some trouble progressing, so let us try that.
12:11:36 <bruce_bailey> Rachael:  we have two breakout rooms ready to go
12:12:05 <bruce_bailey> Jaunita:  on group is "points for protocols" with a poor definition, but the group will be working on that
12:12:25 <Rachael> The documentation for the Evaluating procedures is linked here https://github.com/w3c/silver/wiki/Protocols#working-document-history. Please link the Points for Protoccols documentation there too
12:12:38 <bruce_bailey> ... other group is refining protocols as ways to evaluate how testing is done
12:13:34 <JenniferS> * Lonely… I'm so lonely, in Points for Protocols…
12:13:34 <bruce_bailey> Jaunita, we will return to irc at end.
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12:40:23 <bruce_bailey> scribe:bruce_bailey
12:51:54 <bruce_bailey> breakout rooms close
12:52:55 <bruce_bailey> Jaunita:  welcome back, have reporting back
12:53:09 <bruce_bailey> ...points for protocol first
12:53:37 <bruce_bailey> Jennifer:  JF provided some examples / proposals first
12:54:23 <bruce_bailey> ... users will earn "bonus" point in order to provide way to meet wcag3
12:54:37 <JF> - just points
12:54:41 <bruce_bailey> ... users (of protocols) can add additional evidence
12:54:44 <bruce_bailey> q+
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12:55:00 <bruce_bailey> ... dutch has a good example
12:55:08 <JF_> Q+
12:55:21 <bruce_bailey> q-
12:56:10 <Rachael> s/ "bonus"/
12:56:15 <bruce_bailey> JF:  not "bonus" points -- they are POINTS
12:56:32 <bruce_bailey> JF:  idea is that protocols contribute towards total score
12:56:51 <Rachael> q+
12:56:53 <bruce_bailey> ... currently if you don't meet testable statements, loose points
12:56:59 <jeanne> Points for Protocols <- https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UgoMz3OPyoEVLbU4uCU5F5K6aEM7E1rii6oCaWqQy50/edit
12:57:00 <Rachael> ack jf
12:57:35 <bruce_bailey> ... main ideas is make up some points by have strong self-imposed guidance -- per agency/organization protocol
12:57:45 <Rachael> q-
12:58:03 <Jaunita_George> Protocols provide evaluatable procedures to meet guidance in WCAG 3 where the outcomes are not measured. We can measure qualitative tests without using protocols and those are defined as methods in WCAG 3. Where protocols are useful are in measuring and evaluating processes and outcomes that are difficult or unable to be measured with methods.  Protocols measure inputs such as documentation of steps, actions taken, date c[CUT]
12:58:06 <JF_> s/per agency/organization protocol/per vetted Protocols (vetted by AGWG)
12:58:13 <bruce_bailey> Jaunita:  protocols as proceedures reporting
12:58:19 <Jaunita_George> Protocols provide evaluatable procedures to meet guidance in WCAG 3 where the outcomes are not measured. We can measure qualitative tests without using protocols and those are defined as methods in WCAG 3. Where protocols are useful are in measuring and evaluating processes and outcomes that are difficult or unable to be measured with methods.
12:58:30 <bruce_bailey> Jaunita pastes from top of working document
12:58:31 <Jaunita_George> Protocols measure inputs such as documentation of steps, actions taken, date completed, conformance claims, etc.  but not necessarily outcomes. Where the outcome is less directly measured, the protocol must define a way to evaluate the quality of its implementation, which is expected to correlate to conformance with an accessibility outcome.
12:58:59 <bruce_bailey> [Jaunita reads]
12:59:08 <JenniferS> The Points for Protocols document contains content now: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UgoMz3OPyoEVLbU4uCU5F5K6aEM7E1rii6oCaWqQy50/edit?usp=sharing
12:59:29 <JF_> Q+
13:00:07 <Jaunita_George> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1W_5H0MCoKzGaD9XCxgzdqZ-1TiVCXHVipE_vNnG2DOQ/edit#
13:00:10 <bruce_bailey> JF:  i understand proposal, but do not understand how might be integrated.  Do we have example.
13:00:38 <jeanne> rrsgent, make minutes
13:00:39 <bruce_bailey> Jaunita:  see model links at end of doc from DOL
13:00:41 <Jaunita_George> RRSAgent, make minutes
13:00:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/04/29-wcag3-protocols-minutes.html Jaunita_George
13:00:48 <Jaunita_George> zakim, end meeting
13:00:48 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been JF, bruce_bailey, Jaunita_George, JenniferS, JakeAbma, Rachael
13:00:50 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
13:00:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/04/29-wcag3-protocols-minutes.html Zakim
13:00:53 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, Jaunita_George; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
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