IRC log of matf on 2022-04-25

Timestamps are in UTC.

19:09:57 [RRSAgent]
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logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/04/25-matf-irc
19:09:59 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
19:09:59 [Zakim]
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19:10:01 [trackbot]
Meeting: Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
19:10:01 [trackbot]
Date: 25 April 2022
19:10:39 [Kim_patch]
present+
19:10:55 [VJ]
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19:11:30 [VJ]
present+
19:11:41 [jjdg]
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19:11:47 [jjdg]
present+
19:12:40 [Sally]
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19:12:56 [Sally]
Sally +
19:13:12 [Sally]
Present +
19:18:09 [jjdg]
Some AxeCon sessions which might be interesting to watch: https://www.deque.com/axe-con/sessions/creating-accessible-react-native-apps/ https://www.deque.com/axe-con/sessions/building-accessible-android-apps-with-jetpack-compose/ https://www.deque.com/axe-con/sessions/swiftui-accessibility-goodies-gotchas/ https://www.deque.com/axe-con/sessions/accessible-by-design-the-nab-mobile-banking-app/
19:21:44 [Perrin]
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19:21:49 [Perrin]
present+
19:30:02 [Kim_patch]
TOPIC: logistics
19:30:21 [Kim_patch]
TOPIC: future map
19:31:04 [Kim_patch]
s/future/feature
19:31:19 [Kim_patch]
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1j1-C7t4sHtJqLT4YKJqLfJIl28DET6gYBQPczDFDWpY/edit#gid=0
19:32:27 [Kim_patch]
Jan: doing something similar for developers, later this year
19:33:05 [Kim_patch]
Jan: also analytics
19:34:21 [Kim_patch]
VJ: I want to do with the other way around. I choose and everything I logon to knows
19:35:52 [Kim_patch]
VJ: another group, lived experiences people who are using smart phones and iPads every day and I sit and observe. There is loads of stuff that comes up. Ongoing Miro board based case study based around that might produce some interesting insights and specific questions.
19:38:43 [Kim_patch]
VJ: seems access to mid-level smart phone technology – being used to create access to daily life for certain people who are using accessibility features may be nontraditional that are just the standard use of the smart phone
19:39:06 [Kim_patch]
Sally: something I think that there is little research – fact that most people have multiple access needs. I think that doesn't come across at all in the literature
19:39:32 [Kim_patch]
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1eWyuPdzlLsYoKsuQdtrOYvGZklMJNpjsr1rehA-ORBU/edit#gid=0
19:40:05 [Kim_patch]
Jan: I'm interested in videos – how they are using their phones. Also good examples of what apps work well, what kind of features make apps work well
19:40:31 [Kim_patch]
VJ: I've been using and explain everything board so you can do video. I've been breaking apart documents and adding voice memos at the point when something comes up
19:43:02 [Kim_patch]
Sally: ethics to publish and share the data
19:44:21 [Kim_patch]
VJ: there's a dearth of research – hard to find and a lot of people saying the same things. Trying to prompt other people to get some research actually happening.
19:45:05 [Kim_patch]
VJ and Sally to connect on ethics
19:45:13 [Kim_patch]
Jan:
19:45:32 [Kim_patch]
Jan: another question is what makes people exit an app.
19:46:41 [Kim_patch]
Sally: people complaining about uber eats does not work well the screen reader, and menu log hit and miss. Door dash has come to New Zealand but there are no restaurantson it yet.
19:47:01 [Kim_patch]
Jan: when an app is really accessible you have a lot of loyal users, then others use it
19:48:11 [Kim_patch]
VJ: it's very evident that some developers have absolutely no idea where to start. The one thing we are doing with these guys we took the WCAG guidelines and there's 84 problems with the way it's been built. Code is one great big block and not in the proper order.
19:48:44 [Kim_patch]
VJ: they have no idea where to start other than they probably have to start again from the ground up because it's that complex. I think a lot of people are in that situation. This idea of prebuilt blocks to solve the problem for them. There's lots of good intentions.
19:49:16 [Kim_patch]
VJ: need good directions for developers – APIs, what is good
19:49:58 [Kim_patch]
Jan: one of the main problems I found is auditors do an audit and then you receive maybe even 100 pages of what's wrong but a lot of times there's no solutions. So they know it's wrong but they don't know how to fix it. Developer gets this report handed to you and you have no idea how to fix issues that are in the report. That's the biggest issue I've seen
19:50:10 [Kim_patch]
Sally: developers and actual end-users aren't really talking
19:50:58 [Kim_patch]
VJ: guidelines tell people what to do but not how to do it.
19:51:14 [Kim_patch]
Sally: not embedded into what the developers learn a lot of the time and perhaps we need to attack it from that
19:51:52 [Kim_patch]
Jan: expand the techniques – right now 0 for android
19:52:24 [Kim_patch]
Jan: you see HTML but I'm a mobile developer why am I seeing HTML I want to see my own programming language. I think that's the most common – they feel left out maybe and then say I can't do anything with this and just exit
19:52:49 [Kim_patch]
Sally: WCAG all focused on the web and there isn't a lot from others.
19:53:54 [Kim_patch]
VJ: can we find out who is offering Masters level degrees in mobile development? Those students could potentially provide the answers to what they needs the guidelines to say.
19:54:34 [Kim_patch]
Sally: have to put it through ethics but we could put a survey together – that has been done there are some studies listed in the references. Most of them published 2021 2022 that have asked the question of did you learn this developers but small samples of 20 developers, may be bigger survey
19:55:11 [Kim_patch]
VJ: developers with lived experience – what they feel would most benefit those learning this right now in terms of guidelines or what they observe in their experience working like this and trying out these different ways of developing – but they come across
19:55:31 [Kim_patch]
Sally: but if we come up with some survey questions and came back next time. Once we have survey questions in a research question I can make a proposal
19:56:12 [Kim_patch]
Jan: we are doing something similar – writing a survey for developers – how do they come up with accessibility. Not academic but a quick way for information
19:56:21 [Kim_patch]
Sally: if we can use the same survey questions that would be good
19:56:44 [Kim_patch]
Sally: easier to get a survey through ethics
19:59:13 [Kim_patch]
Sally: question for users – how many of them have multiple needs and how that impacts how they use software
19:59:34 [Kim_patch]
Sally: that adds another layer of complexity that hasn't been addressed
20:03:08 [Kim_patch]
ACTION: Jan to send research questions to Sally, add them to Docs to take a look at next time.
20:03:09 [trackbot]
Error finding 'Jan'. You can review and register nicknames at <https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/track/users>.
20:11:30 [Kim_patch]
no meeting next week. Next meeting May 9.
20:13:23 [Kim_patch]
zakim, list participants
20:13:23 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been Kim_patch, VJ, jjdg, Perrin
20:13:44 [Kim_patch]
Present + Sally
20:13:48 [Kim_patch]
zakim, list participants
20:13:48 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been Kim_patch, VJ, jjdg, Perrin
20:14:00 [Kim_patch]
present+ Sally
20:14:04 [Kim_patch]
zakim, list participants
20:14:04 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been Kim_patch, VJ, jjdg, Perrin, Sally
20:15:25 [Kim_patch]
rrsagent, make minutes
20:15:25 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/04/25-matf-minutes.html Kim_patch
20:21:18 [Kim_patch]
rrsagent, bye
20:21:18 [RRSAgent]
I see 1 open action item saved in https://www.w3.org/2022/04/25-matf-actions.rdf :
20:21:18 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Jan to send research questions to Sally, add them to Docs to take a look at next time. [1]
20:21:18 [RRSAgent]
recorded in https://www.w3.org/2022/04/25-matf-irc#T20-03-08
20:21:22 [Kim_patch]
zakim, bye
20:21:22 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees have been Kim_patch, VJ, jjdg, Perrin, Sally
20:21:22 [Zakim]
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