15:50:40 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wcag3-protocols
15:50:40 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/04/22-wcag3-protocols-irc
15:51:11 <Jaunita_George> Zakim, start meeting
15:51:11 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
15:51:12 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), Jaunita_George
15:51:20 <Jaunita_George> Rrsagent, make logs world
15:51:31 <Jaunita_George> 	meeting:  AGWG-2022-04-08
15:51:54 <Jaunita_George> meeting:  AGWG-2022-04-22
15:52:15 <Jaunita_George> zakim, start meeitng
15:52:15 <Zakim> I don't understand 'start meeitng', Jaunita_George
15:52:23 <Jaunita_George> zakim, start meeting
15:52:23 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
15:52:24 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), Jaunita_George
15:52:31 <Jaunita_George> meeting:  AGWG-2022-04-22
15:53:21 <Jaunita_George> agenda+ Breakout groups
15:54:20 <Jaunita_George> agenda+ Report Out
15:54:26 <Jaunita_George> agenda?
15:54:39 <Jaunita_George> zakim, change meeting
15:54:39 <Zakim> I don't understand 'change meeting', Jaunita_George
15:55:48 <Jaunita_George> zakim, end this meeting
15:55:48 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been JF, Rachael, MichaelC, jaunita_george_, bruce_bailey, .5, jeanne
15:55:50 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:55:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/04/22-wcag3-protocols-minutes.html Zakim
15:55:53 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, Jaunita_George; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
15:55:57 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wcag3-protocols
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15:56:27 <Jaunita_George> zakim, start meeting
15:56:27 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
15:56:28 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), Jaunita_George
15:56:46 <Jaunita_George> meeting:  AGWG-2022-04-22
15:56:56 <Jaunita_George> Rrsagent, make logs world
15:57:10 <Jaunita_George> agenda+ breakout groups
15:57:34 <Jaunita_George> agenda+ report out
15:57:51 <Jaunita_George> agenda+ How to run future meetings
15:58:19 <JF> JF has joined #wcag3-protocols
15:58:28 <JF> Present+
16:00:48 <ShawnT> present+
16:01:51 <MichaelC> present+
16:02:24 <JenniferS> JenniferS has joined #wcag3-protocols
16:02:34 <JenniferS> Present+
16:03:56 <mbgower> mbgower has joined #wcag3-protocols
16:04:00 <Jaunita_George> present+
16:04:00 <mbgower> present+
16:04:05 <mbgower> scribe: mbgower
16:04:07 <Jaunita_George> zakim, take up first item
16:04:07 <Zakim> I don't understand 'take up first item', Jaunita_George
16:04:21 <Le> Le has joined #wcag3-protocols
16:04:26 <JenniferS_> JenniferS_ has joined #wcag3-protocols
16:04:28 <JF> agenda?
16:04:29 <JenniferS_> Present+
16:04:40 <Jaunita_George> zakim, take up item 1
16:04:40 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- breakout groups -- taken up [from Jaunita_George]
16:04:46 <Jaunita_George> https://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot.html
16:04:58 <Le> present+
16:05:10 <mbgower> There were 2 areas of consensus
16:05:37 <jeanne> present+
16:05:38 <mbgower> Jaunita: We can start the breakout groups at 12:08
16:05:54 <mbgower> Jaunita: each group can meet and discuss those areas of consensus
16:06:13 <mbgower> Jaunita: Breakout 1 will be those folks who believe protocols should be used to add points.
16:06:35 <mbgower> Jaunita: Breakout 2 will be for those who believe that protocols should be used to create testable guidance for
16:06:43 <mbgower> Jaunita: WCAG 3
16:06:51 <mbgower> Jaunita: Does anyone object?
16:06:54 <Rachael> q+
16:07:08 <Jaunita_George> ack Rachael
16:07:32 <mbgower> Rachael: I've named the rooms Protocols add points & Testable guidance
16:07:41 <Rachael> protocols add points and testable guidance
16:07:50 <mbgower> Jaunita: Team names might be good, along with the definition
16:09:18 <ShawnT> Can we bounce from one room to another
16:10:09 <mbgower> We only have me, Michael and Sheri on Testable guidance
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16:44:22 <mbgower> [breakout rooms end]
16:44:42 <mbgower> Jaunita: we're all back in the main room. We're going to go back to IRC
16:45:08 <mbgower> Jaunita: We're doing a report out from both teams. Team 1 or 2 first? Team 1 being the 'add points'
16:45:32 <mbgower> Jennifer: This was a great opportunity.
16:45:42 <mbgower> Jennifer: I thought about this differently before.
16:46:19 <mbgower> Jennifer: We talked about a minimum of those objective criteria and a percentage being subjective -- using protocols to do the subjective -- would help you get to the minimum, would be great.
16:46:32 <mbgower> Jennifer: I'd like the opportunity to continue the converation
16:46:46 <mbgower> JF: Talking about he difference between must and should was an "ah ha" moment.
16:47:05 <mbgower> JF: Should is what we'd like them to do.
16:47:31 <mbgower> JF: Jennifer had talked about a conversation with a designer that 'that's just a should, so we don't have to do that'
16:47:51 <mbgower> Jennifer: Incentivizing the "shoulds" versus the "musts" is important
16:48:09 <mbgower> Jennifer: so much of COGA stuff is subjective. it allows us to have a value add for that. Vital
16:48:26 <mbgower> Jaunita: I want to keep us moving. Team 1. Do we have a team name to use in the future?
16:48:57 <mbgower> Le: Points for protocol?
16:49:14 <mbgower> Jaunita: I think that's a great name. Anyone else from team 1?
16:49:15 <ShawnT> +1
16:49:19 <JF> s/Jennifer: so much of COGA stuff/Le: so much of COGA stuff
16:49:36 <Jaunita_George> Draft resolution: Team 1's name is Points for Protocol
16:49:42 <JF> +1
16:49:43 <Jaunita_George> +1
16:49:43 <jeanne> +1
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16:49:57 <Le> +1
16:50:00 <JenniferS> Present+
16:50:05 <JenniferS> +1
16:50:06 <SuzanneTaylor> present+
16:50:08 <SuzanneTaylor> +1
16:50:11 <mbgower> 0 sounds fine, but I don't have enough info to have a solid opinion :)
16:50:14 <Jaunita_George> RESOLUTION: Team 1's name is Points for Protocol
16:50:30 <JF> s/Jennifer: Incentivizing the "shoulds"/Le: Incentivizing the "shoulds"
16:50:36 <mbgower> Jaunita: Did you have a working document to paste into IRC?
16:50:41 <ShawnT> no
16:51:02 <mbgower> Jaunita: In future work, if you could collect those thoughts that would be great.
16:51:13 <mbgower> JF: I think it should go into the github wiki
16:51:25 <mbgower> Jaunita: Put your team name with the wiki so we can separate the 2 teams
16:51:44 <mbgower> Jaunita: Team 2, Rachael?
16:51:59 <mbgower> Rachael: We were talking about a situation where the outcomes aren't measured.
16:52:12 <jeanne> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1W_5H0MCoKzGaD9XCxgzdqZ-1TiVCXHVipE_vNnG2DOQ/
16:52:16 <mbgower> Rachael: We talked about Plan language and what that might look like, and started the conversation.
16:52:38 <mbgower> Rachael: Like group 1, we would benefit from continuing conversation to come up with detailed points
16:52:40 <ShawnT> [Home · w3c/silver Wiki](https://github.com/w3c/silver/wiki)
16:52:49 <mbgower> Rachael: Would Evaluating procedures make sense?
16:52:49 <jeanne> +1
16:53:34 <Jaunita_George> Draft resolution: Team 2's name is Evaluating Procedures
16:53:40 <Jaunita_George> +1
16:53:44 <Rachael> +1
16:53:47 <mbgower> 0
16:53:50 <jeanne> +1
16:53:52 <SuzanneTaylor> 0
16:53:52 <JF> 0
16:53:56 <JenniferS> +1
16:54:05 <Jaunita_George> RESOLUTION: Team 2's name is Evaluating Procedures
16:54:30 <mbgower> Jaunita: Earlier we discussed recording our notes. For team 2, I think we can use the google doc and link to the wiki
16:55:26 <mbgower>  Jaunita: How did this work for folks?
16:55:39 <jeanne> scribe: jeanne
16:55:44 <JenniferS> Working for me
16:56:08 <jeanne> JG: Is everyone ok with this procedure for working with the breakout, the reporting, and resolutions
16:56:39 <Rachael> q+
16:56:46 <Jaunita_George> ack
16:56:49 <Jaunita_George> ack Rachael
16:57:03 <jeanne> JF: We have two different proposals coming up, and they both have value.  We need to bring it together and what will we call the alternative proposal?
16:57:12 <ShawnT> +1
16:57:15 <Le> q+
16:57:34 <jeanne> RMB: We will be bringing both proposals to the larger group so that they can approve a direction.
16:57:37 <Jaunita_George> ack Le
16:58:19 <Jaunita_George> Draft resolution: Continue breakout groups to further both teams' work
16:58:26 <SuzanneTaylor> +1
16:58:29 <ShawnT> +1
16:58:32 <Le> +1
16:58:33 <Jaunita_George> +1
16:58:36 <JenniferS> +1
16:58:36 <mbgower> +1
16:58:41 <jeanne> JSp: +1
16:58:46 <Jaunita_George> RESOLUTION: Continue breakout groups to further both teams' work
16:58:55 <JF> +.5 - concern that we time box this
16:59:12 <mbgower> I also will only be attending the later calls
16:59:20 <SuzanneTaylor> q+ to ask if participants are expected to stay on one of the teams
16:59:28 <jeanne> JG: We will timebox it and come back at 12:35
16:59:42 <jeanne> JF: How many meetings before we stop having breakout rooms?
16:59:54 <jeanne> JG: Until we have 2 proposals
17:00:06 <jeanne> JF: I mean how many weeks
17:00:22 <JenniferS> A+
17:00:31 <JenniferS> Q+
17:00:34 <jeanne> MC: I don't want to be locked into a target, we can target a moonth and adjust as we get close
17:00:43 <Jaunita_George> ack JenniferS
17:00:59 <MichaelC> q+
17:01:14 <SuzanneTaylor> q-
17:01:20 <JF> +1 to Jen's suggestiong
17:01:26 <Jaunita_George> ack MichaelC
17:01:28 <jeanne> JSt: I think Sheri asked if we have to stay on the same teams.  I think we can go back and forth.  I think we need two mornings to go with the two noons.
17:02:14 <jeanne> MC:  I don't agree with moving between teams.  The idea was for a group to mature each idea and not have people advocating for a different view holding up progress
17:02:15 <mbgower> I agree I'm leery of splitting this up too, especially because I think we want to stitch them together.
17:02:34 <mbgower> thanks!
17:02:43 <jeanne> JG: We can continue this next week.
17:02:49 <jeanne> rrsagent, make minutes
17:02:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/04/22-wcag3-protocols-minutes.html jeanne
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