IRC log of apa on 2022-04-20
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 13:45:08 [RRSAgent]
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- logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/04/20-apa-irc
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- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 13:45:13 [trackbot]
- Meeting: Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference
- 13:45:13 [trackbot]
- Date: 20 April 2022
- 13:45:18 [Matthew_Atkinson]
- agenda?
- 13:45:23 [Matthew_Atkinson]
- zakim, clear the agenda
- 13:45:23 [Zakim]
- agenda cleared
- 13:45:33 [Matthew_Atkinson]
- Chair: Matthew
- 13:45:37 [Matthew_Atkinson]
- agenda+ Agenda Review & Announcements
- 13:45:40 [Matthew_Atkinson]
- agenda+ New Charters Review https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22
- 13:45:44 [Matthew_Atkinson]
- agenda+ A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review
- 13:45:49 [Matthew_Atkinson]
- agenda+ new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html
- 13:45:52 [Matthew_Atkinson]
- agenda+ Dangling Spec Review Cleanup: https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Category:Spec_Review_Assigned
- 13:45:55 [Matthew_Atkinson]
- agenda+ FAST and Maturity Model Deliverables Update
- 13:45:58 [Matthew_Atkinson]
- agenda+ Web of Things - middleware concept update
- 13:46:00 [Matthew_Atkinson]
- agenda+ Task Force & Deliverables Updates
- 13:46:03 [Matthew_Atkinson]
- agenda+ Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/open
- 13:46:06 [Matthew_Atkinson]
- agenda+ TPAC (12-16 September) Planning
- 13:46:09 [Matthew_Atkinson]
- agenda+ Other Business
- 13:46:12 [Matthew_Atkinson]
- agenda+ be done
- 13:47:48 [Fazio]
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- 14:01:03 [Matthew_Atkinson]
- present+
- 14:01:16 [Roy]
- present+
- 14:01:22 [Gottfried]
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- 14:01:40 [Gottfried]
- present+
- 14:01:50 [Fazio]
- present+
- 14:02:05 [niklasegger]
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- 14:05:18 [mike_beganyi]
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- 14:05:21 [mike_beganyi]
- present+
- 14:07:57 [mike_beganyi]
- scribe: mike_beganyi
- 14:08:37 [mike_beganyi]
- introductions
- 14:08:59 [Matthew_Atkinson]
- zakim, next item
- 14:08:59 [Zakim]
- agendum 1 -- Agenda Review & Announcements -- taken up [from Matthew_Atkinson]
- 14:09:01 [becky]
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- 14:09:08 [becky]
- present+
- 14:09:47 [mike_beganyi]
- zakim, close item
- 14:09:47 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'close item', mike_beganyi
- 14:09:52 [mike_beganyi]
- zakim, close this item
- 14:09:52 [Zakim]
- agendum 1 closed
- 14:09:54 [Zakim]
- I see 11 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
- 14:09:54 [Zakim]
- 2. New Charters Review https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22 [from Matthew_Atkinson]
- 14:09:56 [mike_beganyi]
- zakim, next item
- 14:09:57 [Zakim]
- agendum 2 -- New Charters Review https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22 -- taken up [from Matthew_Atkinson]
- 14:10:13 [mike_beganyi]
- MichaelC: no new charters this week
- 14:10:18 [mike_beganyi]
- zakim, close this item
- 14:10:19 [Zakim]
- agendum 2 closed
- 14:10:19 [Zakim]
- I see 10 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
- 14:10:19 [Zakim]
- 3. A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review [from Matthew_Atkinson]
- 14:10:22 [mike_beganyi]
- zakim, next item
- 14:10:22 [Zakim]
- agendum 3 -- A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review -- taken up [from Matthew_Atkinson]
- 14:11:20 [mike_beganyi]
- MichaelC: WebXR Device API which Fredrik took on review of
- 14:11:55 [mike_beganyi]
- MichaelC: can discuss SVG Native
- 14:12:23 [mike_beganyi]
- Matthew_Atkinson: should it be a "should" requirement to expose title in description or a "must"
- 14:13:02 [mike_beganyi]
- Gottfried: we want to provide alt text, so "must" is appropriate
- 14:14:08 [mike_beganyi]
- Matthew_Atkinson: renderers that don't expose alt are prevalent, so not sure we can dictate it's a "must". doesn't compare to other rendering formats
- 14:14:18 [janina]
- present+
- 14:14:20 [janina]
- q?
- 14:14:25 [janina]
- q+
- 14:14:38 [mike_beganyi]
- Matthew_Atkinson: Paul made a comment that we should make it a "should" because we cannot reasonably expect at the operating system level
- 14:14:47 [mike_beganyi]
- ack janina
- 14:14:53 [Gottfried]
- q+ Could it be a conditional "must"?
- 14:15:11 [mike_beganyi]
- janina: we can try to have impact and maybe negotiate to "should"
- 14:15:16 [Gottfried]
- q+ to ask whether it could be a conditional "must"
- 14:15:39 [Fazio_]
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- 14:16:21 [mike_beganyi]
- Gottfried: stop the deprecation of title and description from SVG. Agree with Mat that we don't have the say-so at the OS level. we have doors here but we can't push through them
- 14:17:02 [mike_beganyi]
- Matthew_Atkinson: should we leave the comment as is and put CFC on it for discussion?
- 14:17:11 [mike_beganyi]
- janina: I'm fine with all approaches
- 14:17:14 [mike_beganyi]
- ack Gottfried
- 14:17:14 [Zakim]
- Gottfried, you wanted to ask whether it could be a conditional "must"
- 14:17:57 [Gottfried]
- ack
- 14:18:00 [mike_beganyi]
- Gottfried: if it applies to accessibility API, then it must apply. a conditional must if a prerequisite is met
- 14:19:03 [mike_beganyi]
- Matthew_Atkinson: Gottfried, are you happy with comment as is or should we include conditional must?
- 14:19:29 [mike_beganyi]
- Gottfried: if we start with low requirement, it will move lower. like the idea of asking for a stronger requirement
- 14:19:39 [mike_beganyi]
- Matthew_Atkinson: is conditional must sufficiently high?
- 14:19:41 [mike_beganyi]
- Gottfried: yes
- 14:20:10 [mike_beganyi]
- Matthew_Atkinson: janina, can I re-draft suggestion then re-send?
- 14:20:11 [mike_beganyi]
- janina: yes
- 14:20:38 [mike_beganyi]
- zakim, next item
- 14:20:38 [Zakim]
- agendum 4 -- new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html -- taken up [from Matthew_Atkinson]
- 14:21:13 [MichaelC]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Fonts_for_the_Web:_Rationale,_1996
- 14:21:55 [mike_beganyi]
- MichaelC: fonts for the web rationale 1996. a note publication of a document. it's being published. W3C winning an emmy for it. historical note. short and interesting read
- 14:22:54 [mike_beganyi]
- MichaelC: three web assembly specs we might dispose of. for the core spec, review exercise but no comments. Javascript interface we decided we didn't need to review it, same with Web API.
- 14:23:02 [MichaelC]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/WebAssembly_Core_Specification_Version_2.0
- 14:23:06 [MichaelC]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/WebAssembly_JavaScript_Interface_Version_2.0
- 14:23:09 [MichaelC]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/WebAssembly_Web_API_Version_2.0
- 14:23:32 [mike_beganyi]
- janina: debated whether we needed to worry or not. not sure we can trace any problems to anything in compiled web content. less worried than 1.0
- 14:24:11 [david-swallow]
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- 14:24:29 [david-swallow]
- present+
- 14:24:31 [MichaelC]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/WebXR_Hand_Input_Module_-_Level_1
- 14:24:49 [mike_beganyi]
- MichaelC: Web XR Hand Input Module: not new to TR but just picked it up. looking through. had comments on other Web XR specs
- 14:26:00 [mike_beganyi]
- MichaelC: suspicion that it is not necessary to review
- 14:26:28 [mike_beganyi]
- Gottfried: student who wrote thesis on input without hand gestures. can share link
- 14:27:13 [Gottfried]
- Fiona Heilemann. (2021). Accessible hands-free input methods for a serious VR game: Development and evaluation. Hochschule der Medien Stuttgart. https://hdms.bsz-bw.de/frontdoor/index/index/start/0/rows/10/sortfield/score/sortorder/desc/searchtype/simple/query/heilemann/docId/6641
- 14:27:13 [mike_beganyi]
- Matthew_Atkinson: will take a look at this and review it
- 14:27:35 [Gottfried]
- Short video on YouTube: https://youtu.be/P0jU5TW6iXc
- 14:27:47 [mike_beganyi]
- janina: can ask anyone at W3C for assistance in reviewing.
- 14:27:55 [mike_beganyi]
- janina: this is first public working draft or early on?
- 14:28:13 [mike_beganyi]
- MichaelC: FPWD was about 2 years ago but it's reviewed every 6 months
- 14:28:23 [mike_beganyi]
- janina: timely to review as CR may be coming up
- 14:28:33 [mike_beganyi]
- Matthew_Atkinson: will officially review but ask Kim if possible to review as well
- 14:29:50 [mike_beganyi]
- MichaelC: two Web of Things comments to discuss. separate item later
- 14:30:37 [Matthew_Atkinson]
- agenda?
- 14:30:48 [Matthew_Atkinson]
- zakim, take up item 7
- 14:30:48 [Zakim]
- agendum 7 -- Web of Things - middleware concept update -- taken up [from Matthew_Atkinson]
- 14:31:20 [mike_beganyi]
- janina: we came up with term which serves our needs: "middleware"
- 14:31:59 [mike_beganyi]
- janina: our use case suggests that it's not enough whether it's indicated that something is controllable via an app, but there's software in-between that needs to be accessible
- 14:32:46 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/04/20-apa-minutes.html MichaelC
- 14:32:56 [mike_beganyi]
- janina: only after purchasing a lamp and finding it's controlled by an app that is inaccessible is important to expose. started calling that particular software as "middleware"
- 14:33:04 [Matthew_Atkinson]
- q?
- 14:33:48 [mike_beganyi]
- janina: 2 things. if anyone knows how this software is specified or exposed; and a need to write an e-mail if not
- 14:34:08 [mike_beganyi]
- Matthew_Atkinson: not sure if middleware is correct, but it feels right based on description
- 14:34:32 [mike_beganyi]
- janina: if they've even thought of naming such software at all. ran into this before with HTML5 with "alternative"
- 14:34:47 [mike_beganyi]
- janina: so we invented the term "primary media resource"
- 14:36:06 [mike_beganyi]
- MichaelC: if there's a question just go ahead and pose it. they'll probably answer quickly and we can move forward
- 14:36:30 [mike_beganyi]
- MichaelC: I'll update them on our status
- 14:37:07 [mike_beganyi]
- zakim, take up item 6
- 14:37:07 [Zakim]
- agendum 6 -- FAST and Maturity Model Deliverables Update -- taken up [from Matthew_Atkinson]
- 14:37:35 [mike_beganyi]
- Matthew_Atkinson: FAST update is that there isn't any update beyond Josh being invited as an expert
- 14:37:48 [mike_beganyi]
- janina: Josh is back in APA
- 14:38:06 [mike_beganyi]
- Matthew_Atkinson: maturity model. we are running short on time.
- 14:41:10 [mike_beganyi]
- janina: maturity model meets in the next hour. subset of RQTF, and that's where maturity model e-mails go
- 14:41:21 [Matthew_Atkinson]
- q?
- 14:42:00 [mike_beganyi]
- Fazio: APA and RQTF, get back into things, GitHub, making updates as we speak
- 14:42:13 [mike_beganyi]
- zakim, take up item 8
- 14:42:13 [Zakim]
- agendum 8 -- Task Force & Deliverables Updates -- taken up [from Matthew_Atkinson]
- 14:42:16 [PaulG]
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- 14:42:43 [mike_beganyi]
- Matthew_Atkinson: Personalization and COGA did not meet
- 14:42:58 [mike_beganyi]
- subtopic: Pronunciation
- 14:45:12 [Fazio]
- also trauma triggers
- 14:48:17 [mike_beganyi]
- PaulG: guests from Accessibility for Children Community Group, use case discussion we had not included, as well as ongoing guidance. make use case for certain spects of pronunciation are important for children in an environment where they are learning a second language. has pointed out some gaps in SSML, moving it to the web but still in that process
- 14:48:31 [mike_beganyi]
- janina: not just an accessibility use case. It has massive implications beyond that, think of newcomers to different countries for example. Will talk to the task force responsible for language codes.
- 14:48:43 [mike_beganyi]
- PaulG: SSML has a variant for voice, which is a positive integer targeted to a system. If it's a match it'll find the variant. Preserve the author's intentions
- 14:49:14 [mike_beganyi]
- Fazio: Downs Syndrome has been changed from a severe cognitive disability to a mild one due to AAC and other devices. this work is important to provide a richer experience on the web
- 14:51:10 [mike_beganyi]
- subtopic: RQTF
- 14:52:12 [mike_beganyi]
- janina: SAUR is out, messaging has gone out. remote meetings draft is about to go out for second wide review. working on messaging. group agreed this morning that we needed to write AUR for collaborative tools
- 14:52:40 [mike_beganyi]
- zakim, next item
- 14:52:40 [Zakim]
- agendum 4 -- new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html -- taken up [from Matthew_Atkinson]
- 14:53:00 [mike_beganyi]
- zakim, close this item
- 14:53:00 [Zakim]
- agendum 4 closed
- 14:53:01 [Zakim]
- I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
- 14:53:01 [Zakim]
- 5. Dangling Spec Review Cleanup: https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Category:Spec_Review_Assigned [from Matthew_Atkinson]
- 14:53:16 [mike_beganyi]
- agenda?
- 14:53:52 [mike_beganyi]
- zakim, take up item 9
- 14:53:52 [Zakim]
- agendum 9 -- Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/open -- taken up [from Matthew_Atkinson]
- 14:54:19 [mike_beganyi]
- Matthew_Atkinson: on-screen keyboard review with Becky. I'm aware of issues and review it within the next week
- 14:54:21 [Matthew_Atkinson]
- q?
- 14:54:35 [mike_beganyi]
- zakim, close this item
- 14:54:36 [Zakim]
- agendum 9 closed
- 14:54:36 [Zakim]
- I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
- 14:54:36 [Zakim]
- 5. Dangling Spec Review Cleanup: https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Category:Spec_Review_Assigned [from Matthew_Atkinson]
- 14:57:27 [Matthew_Atkinson]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 14:57:27 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/04/20-apa-minutes.html Matthew_Atkinson
- 14:58:05 [mike_beganyi]
- zakim, bye
- 14:58:05 [Zakim]
- leaving. As of this point the attendees have been Fredrik, iali, Matthew_Atkinson, Fazio, Roy, PaulG, becky, Jonny_James, mike_beganyi, janina, MichaelC, Gottfried, david-swallow
- 14:58:05 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #apa
- 14:58:29 [mike_beganyi]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 14:58:29 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/04/20-apa-minutes.html mike_beganyi
- 14:59:20 [niklasegger]
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