15:03:56 RRSAgent has joined #hcls 15:03:56 logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/04/14-hcls-irc 15:04:01 rrsagent, make logs public 15:04:04 Meeting: FHIR RDF 15:04:07 Chair: DBooth 15:04:28 Topic: RDF Lists 15:04:48 jim: Opened an issue in OWL API: https://github.com/owlcs/owlapi/issues/1056 15:05:06 ... Getting pessimistic about it. 15:06:15 ... Small ont w two properties, one a sub-prop of the other. And some axiom annotations, using rdf:first as the annotatedProperty. You're not realy supposed ot do this, but you would if you're using a prop in a list. 15:06:44 ... But one of the annotations gets put onto the wrong node. 15:07:28 ... When it goes through the parsing, it has pending annotations, and it takes whatever is in the pending annotations instaed of matching u what should be there. 15:08:04 ... Hoping to get some engagement on it, but IDK now likely. Parsing algo ... the rdfs:comment should be in the unparsed things at the end of the algo. 15:08:18 dbooth: Who wrote the code? 15:08:30 jim: Probably Matt Horridge originally. 15:09:01 eric: Any out of band way to get Matthew's interest? Like ping him on twitter? 15:09:42 jim: He's protege author also. 15:10:52 ... Is our RDF List decision entirely contingent on making OWL API work on it? 15:11:50 eric: I think it should be a desiderata. I'd accept the RDF list approach if we can get this working. I think that would motivate other vendors. 15:12:40 eric: Ultimately it's a flaw in OWL. 15:14:22 gaurav: Another way to get OWL API dev interested: find valid OWL that triggers this bug. 15:14:39 ... A bug that puts an annotation on an unrelated triple is really bad. 15:15:56 jim: It is also triggered if I change rdf:first to rdf:somethingelse . 15:17:17 dbooth: This is a barrier to using RDF lists with FHIR. 15:18:49 ... You should tell them that. 15:20:59 Topic: Concept IRIs 15:23:45 gaurav: Grahame pointed me to synthia, which generates fake healthcare records. It generates them in JSON. For most codes, it draws on SNOMED and LOINC. But it also uses a bunch of other HL7 terminologies, incl passpport numbers, driver license numbers, etc. Trying to figure out where in the source code it is generated. Or we could gen a lot of fake patient records. 28GB of fake data already generated. Downside: Not in the wild, and because it 15:23:46 was created by software it w be well curated. 15:25:08 eric: One place to look ... UMLS ... or bioportal. 15:26:20 ... Minimal mission is to handle codes that we observe now, and give not-too-unpleasant codes to SNOMED non-ccompositional code. But if we're trying to meet ont requirements, we might want to look at bioportal. 15:27:18 gaurav: A bunch of synthia codes are URLs. Should add that to examples. 15:28:58 gaurav: Grahame suggested checking system/code pairs from Synthea, which is available as software code (https://github.com/synthetichealth/synthea) or synthetic data sets (https://synthea.mitre.org/fhir-api). 15:30:10 eric: If we offer to 2 algorithms, conservative and liberal, then it would do the job. 15:32:53 dbooth: This investigation is to determine whether we should offer 2 algorithms. 15:33:44 dbooth: Should we offer 2 algo? 15:34:17 gopi: Offer two algo. 15:34:29 eric: Offer two algo. 15:37:15 gaurav: Grahame just adds a hash and then appends the code. 15:38:08 gaurav: Offer two algo. 15:39:10 brad: Two algo. 15:41:21 dbooth: I have some concerns about over engineering, but I'm okay w offering two algo. 15:41:59 ... Friendly amendment: name the algorithm, and allow more than two. 15:42:19 eric: Should use different IRI stems for different algorithms. 15:43:36 dbooth: Sounds like someone could define multiple entries for the same code system. 15:45:18 eric: Suggest using another column. One for flatIRISTem, one for hierarchicalIRISTem. 15:46:41 ... That embeds the algo name into the name of the column. 15:48:45 dbooth: But if a third algo is added, that means added another column to the table. 15:51:46 dbooth: That would allow multiple URIs for the same thing, which is not desirable. 15:53:06 eric: I like multiple columns because it is easier to police what gets written into the naming system than goes than to police their code. 15:55:46 dbooth: having one column for each algo rubs me the wrong way. 15:57:47 gaurav: Translator project is currently looking into qualifiers when making statements, like "ebola causes chem x to increase" You can add qualifiers, but orig statement must remain true. 15:59:51 dbooth: One column per algorithm vs a single column for algo name? 16:00:19 gaurav: pref one column pe r algo, but writing it up might shed light. 16:01:06 eric: I like gaurav's approach. 16:01:39 ADJOURNED 16:05:36 Present: Gopi (Gopikrishnan Chandrasekharan), Gaurav Vaidya, EricP (Eric Prud'hommeaux), Brad Simons, Jim Balhoff, David Booth 16:05:42 rrsagent, draft minutes 16:05:42 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/04/14-hcls-minutes.html dbooth