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14:57:48 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/04/11-coga-irc
14:57:50 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:57:53 <trackbot> Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:57:53 <trackbot> Date: 11 April 2022
14:59:06 <Lisa> topic: visual controls
14:59:47 <Lisa> iseas from Lisa: instuctions are availible from the page an icon is availible that souly indicates that more controls are availible
15:01:00 <Lisa> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Cn9SvuOiu_m-phcyK5IdtipNzyoM2pkcCHbnWfcqsNc/edit#heading=h.e5ykt7vvfe44
15:01:13 <Lisa> wording: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1GfEgRs99CBc9vVHhCNowwj07v6UDGb-2QaB9IlfBZ5A/edit#heading=h.nshunds56c64
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15:02:02 <mbgower> present+
15:02:24 <Lisa> example: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Cn9SvuOiu_m-phcyK5IdtipNzyoM2pkcCHbnWfcqsNc/edit#heading=h.e5ykt7vvfe44
15:02:27 <Fazio> present+
15:02:31 <ShawnT> present+
15:03:55 <mbgower> q+
15:04:51 <Lisa> abi: we use all actional items are visible distigwishabe fr4om static components
15:05:14 <Fazio> +1
15:05:28 <Fazio> +1 to Abi's wording
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15:07:35 <Lisa> exseptions: ina navigation area
15:08:14 <jon_avila> There is a setting in iOS that you can turn on to show boundaries on iOS. It's called "button shapes" under Settings > accessibility.
15:08:46 <AbiJ> Text from example criteria: - All actionable items (e.g. links, buttons, navigation items, swipe areas) are visually distinguished from static components (via underline, colour and weight variants, arrows, border, etc).  When colour is used to identify actionable items, an additional visual cue is also provided.
15:10:09 <jon_avila> I like the direction from Abi - do we need secondary actions distinguished from primary actions or are we willing to let that go?
15:10:59 <jon_avila> Would >= 3:1 contrast different work for Abi's proposal - and if so - contrast to what - other static text?
15:11:27 <jon_avila> q+
15:11:37 <Lisa> ack jon
15:12:16 <AbiJ> q+
15:12:19 <Lisa> ack next
15:12:40 <Lisa> mike: color has to come out, as it is contredicting
15:13:06 <jon_avila> Color is really helpful though - so we don't want to discourage color
15:13:28 <Lisa> abi: you have to add another cue with color
15:13:47 <Lisa> mike: is it mainly hover
15:13:54 <jon_avila> q?
15:14:02 <Lisa> dave: also disapearing controls
15:14:40 <Lisa> lisa:  also think about dementia and
15:15:21 <Lisa> mike: non persistance
15:15:35 <jon_avila> q?
15:15:40 <Lisa> ack next
15:16:04 <jon_avila> Yes - that was my recollection as well Abi.
15:16:15 <Lisa> abi: we started with visualble items on all controls, but it got cut
15:17:44 <Lisa> abi: we also have a control on hova that already passed
15:18:13 <ShawnT> q+
15:18:24 <jon_avila> The problem with saying hover only is that it can pass with on focus which doesn't help the group.
15:18:34 <Lisa> ack next
15:18:59 <Fazio> q+
15:19:14 <Lisa> ack next
15:19:49 <ShawnT> I'd like to create a list of examples that would pass and which ones would fail
15:20:16 <Lisa> Dave, are controls things that control a system
15:20:32 <mbgower> Abi's wording is "actionable items"
15:20:38 <Lisa> lisa: defined in area
15:20:39 <mbgower> q+
15:20:41 <jon_avila> Components in WCAG is defined and is pretty broad.
15:20:51 <Lisa> ack next
15:21:31 <Lisa> mike: likes abis wording
15:26:11 <ShawnT> I was redoing this document but didn't get a chance to finish it
15:27:35 <Fazio> 1 no
15:27:43 <AbiJ> 1 - exception as in navigation area
15:27:45 <jon_avila> No.  It's not visually distinguished.
15:27:54 <ShawnT> https://github.com/w3c/wcag
15:28:50 <ShawnT> +1 to the demo
15:29:02 <mbgower> 0. It's a 'grey' area.  It's not text.
15:29:07 <ShawnT> @mbgower can you share your screen?
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15:30:19 <jon_avila> The names do appear bolded in Github as well and also are hoverable.
15:33:44 <ShawnT> you don't get the same information on hover with avatar and name but they are the same link destination
15:33:45 <AbiJ> q+
15:34:23 <ShawnT> q+
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15:35:44 <Lisa> adding wording to the document
15:36:29 <Lisa> Abi: exmple 1: if they had a thing that actional things are bold, and that is used consitently
15:37:27 <ShawnT> q-
15:39:51 <Lisa> ack abi
15:39:57 <jon_avila> q+
15:40:05 <jon_avila> q?
15:40:16 <Lisa> q+
15:40:57 <mbgower> correct, AND it is for a set of pages, which is a very confined subset of web pages
15:41:22 <mbgower> q+
15:41:35 <Lisa> ack next
15:41:49 <Lisa> abi: maybe consistenly in a page
15:42:45 <Lisa> ack next
15:44:35 <ShawnT> +1 to the instructions
15:46:39 <Lisa> ack next
15:46:56 <Lisa> lisa added exseptions   Or instructions are available from the page The actionable item is an icon The design patern is in a published design guide
15:48:58 <Lisa> q+
15:49:03 <Fazio> q+
15:49:39 <Lisa> add tools bar exseptions
15:49:45 <AbiJ> q+
15:51:21 <jon_avila> For me personally I find that many interfaces are going to flat single color no lines separating navigation, editing, etc. and I'm not sure where to focus visually and it's not clear what are textual details and what are navigation.
15:51:23 <jon_avila> q?
15:51:26 <jon_avila> q+
15:51:37 <Lisa> ack next
15:52:25 <Lisa> ack next
15:52:35 <Lisa> david: aslo editing block
15:52:53 <Fazio> +1 Abi
15:53:18 <Lisa> abi: you took the action of entering editing area
15:53:29 <mbgower> I'm trying to figure out how we can work "consistent" / "consistently" into this. It's quite difficult
15:53:32 <Lisa> design guided are not good
15:54:10 <Lisa> (abi)
15:54:44 <mbgower> q+ to say how do we get 'consistent' in here?
15:55:20 <Lisa> ack next
15:56:51 <Lisa> ack next
16:06:59 <Lisa> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1GfEgRs99CBc9vVHhCNowwj07v6UDGb-2QaB9IlfBZ5A/edit#
16:07:27 <Lisa> wording: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1GfEgRs99CBc9vVHhCNowwj07v6UDGb-2QaB9IlfBZ5A/edit#
16:07:33 <Lisa> examples: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Cn9SvuOiu_m-phcyK5IdtipNzyoM2pkcCHbnWfcqsNc/edit#
16:15:47 <jon_avila> user interaction possibilities.
16:17:02 <Roy_> Roy_ has joined #coga
16:40:59 <yao> Have to go for another meeting.  Thanks everyone! This is a very productive session :)
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17:00:18 <Lisa> rssagent, make minutes
17:01:23 <Lisa> rrsagent, make minutes
17:01:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/04/11-coga-minutes.html Lisa
17:01:49 <Lisa> We went though the option 2 and 3 from coga (see  https://docs.google.com/document/d/1GfEgRs99CBc9vVHhCNowwj07v6UDGb-2QaB9IlfBZ5A/edit#) and then went though the examples. we found adding exseptions have made it much quicker to consitently agree if it passes or fails. We added a column with our conclusions   We can live with either option 2 or 3, whichever wcag can make work.  We prefer 3 as it is closer to the original intent, but if 2 is easier to ge[CUT]
17:01:53 <Lisa> rrsagent, make minutes
17:01:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/04/11-coga-minutes.html Lisa
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