14:53:20 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #pbgsc
14:53:20 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/04/08-pbgsc-irc
14:53:22 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:53:24 <Zakim> Meeting: Publishing Steering Committee
14:53:39 <Ralph> agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publishing-sc/2022Apr/0000.html
14:53:52 <Ralph> -> https://www.w3.org/2022/02/11-pbgsc-minutes.html previous 11 February
14:58:21 <Ralph> present: Wofgang, Ralph
14:59:41 <Ralph> present+ Avneesh
15:01:03 <Ralph> present+ Zheng
15:01:07 <AvneeshSingh> AvneeshSingh has joined #pbgsc
15:01:20 <AvneeshSingh> present+
15:02:07 <Ralph> present+ Ivan, Bill_Kasdorf, WendyReid
15:02:25 <Bill_Kasdorf_> Bill_Kasdorf_ has joined #pbgsc
15:02:32 <Bill_Kasdorf_> present+
15:03:06 <Ralph> present+ George
15:04:16 <tzviya> present+
15:04:29 <mateus> mateus has joined #pbgsc
15:04:46 <Ralph> topic: Any updates on User Stories activity
15:05:14 <Ralph> Wolfgang: we intend to use the concept next week with our new CG meeting
15:05:16 <GeorgeK> GeorgeK has joined #pbgsc
15:05:24 <Ralph> ... to pick it up for the idea of education
15:05:59 <tzviya> q+
15:06:00 <Ralph> ... and encourage the discussion on vocabulary additions to start with use cases
15:06:15 <Ralph> ... there's interest in a group on educational tags
15:06:36 <Ralph> ... also for a discussion on selectors in the context of annotations
15:07:05 <Ralph> Tzviya: I saw you are looking for use cases on manifest as well
15:07:12 <Ralph> Wolfgang: yes
15:07:48 <Ralph> Tzviya: I had hoped to talk with some people about manifests in education content
15:07:56 <mateus> q+
15:08:18 <Ralph> ... I won't have time to put this together in the next two weeks but can recommend some people to involve
15:08:30 <Ralph> Matues: we want to focus on problems before solutions
15:08:46 <Ralph> ... I can talk about what Norton is doing and we'll invite others to share on what they're doing with PubManifest
15:08:48 <wolfgang> present+
15:09:01 <Ralph> ... the goal is to write up other use cases that could be addressed with PubManifest
15:09:14 <Ralph> ... and what needs the spec might not yet meet
15:09:18 <Ralph> present+ Mateus
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15:09:43 <Ralph> present+ Liisa
15:09:45 <liisamk> present+
15:09:57 <Ralph> topic: Any updates to share on Pub-related standards activities elsewhere?
15:11:00 <Ralph> George: a lot of conferences coming up
15:11:09 <Ralph> ... DIgital Book World might be interesting
15:11:14 <Ralph> ... Accessing Higher Ground
15:11:19 <Ralph> ... FrontPage
15:11:23 <Ralph> ... CSUN
15:11:42 <Ralph> ... all these are after the EDRLab event
15:11:44 <tzviya> q+
15:11:48 <Ralph> s/FrontPage/PageBreak
15:11:59 <tzviya> https://www.w3.org/WAI/update/
15:12:12 <Ralph> Tzviya: see ^^ an update that WAI published
15:12:17 <Ralph> ... it includes EPUB
15:12:29 <Ralph> ... it shows what WAI is working on
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15:13:41 <zheng_xu> present+
15:14:32 <liisamk> q+
15:15:07 <Ralph> Liisa: London Book Fair this week
15:15:33 <ivan> q+
15:15:43 <Ralph> ... looking forward to hearing about in-person events
15:16:40 <shiestyle> present+
15:16:50 <Ralph> Ivan: Laurent just wrote us an email suggesting a session on EPUB 3 at the EDRLab Digital Publishing Summit
15:17:18 <Ralph> ... if it's in-person then Wolfgang and I might be the most likely attendees
15:17:31 <zheng_xu> q+
15:17:53 <Ralph> ... Wendy and Dave are preparing something before then
15:18:10 <Ralph> Wendy: Dave, Monique, and I are preparing a EPUB3 talk to present at @@
15:18:20 <wendyreid> https://us06web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_Ujg6Mub0TVSrlxvTO-Zuqw
15:18:29 <Bill_Kasdorf_> s/@@/TechForum
15:18:44 <Ralph> ... I'm sure they'll let us publish the talk on w3.org
15:18:54 <Ralph> Liisa: may we socialize this in the BG?
15:18:57 <Ralph> Wendy: sure!
15:19:07 <Ralph> ... it will be recorded too
15:19:32 <Ralph> Zheng: Booknet Canada is worth mentioning too
15:19:40 <GeorgeK> present+
15:19:46 <Ralph> ... there's another about a11y
15:19:54 <Ralph> ... and the digital book industry in Canada
15:20:08 <Ralph> .. .is there any community talking about DRM ?
15:20:37 <Ralph> ... I'm trying some things; e.g streaming manga via Youtube
15:20:58 <tzviya> Laura and Mo on Ebook A11y https://us06web.zoom.us/meeting/register/tZIsd-mvpzwoHdXsPpJkxxoX1oXl0jEFJACP
15:20:58 <Ralph> ... and for other digital books I was tracking the NFT CG
15:21:19 <Ralph> ... NFT could provide tokens for digital books; I proposed an extension
15:21:27 <Ralph> ... is there a place to talk about this?
15:21:30 <liisamk> q+
15:22:45 <GeorgeK> q+
15:23:41 <tzviya> q+ to suggest the CCG
15:23:42 <Ralph> Ralph: such a conversation is not out of scope for a CG but I caution about setting expectations regarding Member support for Rec-track activity
15:23:58 <Ralph> Liisa: folks are interested in talking about the future of streaming and NFTs
15:24:44 <Ralph> George: the EDRlab activities in this area -- LCP -- have gone to ISO
15:24:50 <Ralph> ... I think it's an ISO standard now
15:25:23 <Ralph> ... in the early years most DRM blocked a11y, which lead to the DMCA exception for a11y
15:25:42 <Ralph> ... anything about DRM that blocks a11y is going to be a big issue
15:25:45 <Zakim> tzviya, you wanted to suggest the CCG
15:26:05 <tzviya> https://www.w3.org/community/credentials/
15:26:11 <Ralph> Tzviya: it's worthwhile looking at the Credentials CG work ^^
15:26:29 <Ralph> ... they have escalated the Decentralized Identity work and the Verifiable Credentials work
15:26:36 <Ralph> ... and may be talking about NFTS
15:26:49 <Ralph> ... though I'm puzzled about how NFTs work for DRM
15:27:14 <Ralph> ... re: ISO work, there's also a group working on content on the blockchain
15:27:41 <Ralph> .. I'll dig it up
15:27:46 <Ralph> Ivan: Content ... ?
15:28:18 <tzviya> ISCC https://content-blockchain.org/building-blocks/what-is-the-iscc/
15:28:42 <ivan> +1 to Tzviya
15:29:24 <Ralph> Ralph: CCG might not be the most effective place for an NFT/DRM discussion
15:29:34 <wendyreid> q+
15:29:37 <Ralph> Zheng: I'm looking for a place to build bridges and communicate
15:29:56 <Ralph> ... to talk about ideas
15:31:32 <Ralph> Wendy: our efforts are better spent on focusing on what _readers_ want
15:31:41 <tzviya> +1 to wendyreid
15:31:47 <Ralph> ... focus on things that will benefit readers
15:32:05 <liisamk> q+
15:32:08 <Ralph> ... reader behaviour and interests
15:33:00 <Ralph> Liisa: I agree with Wendy and am worried about what I see in the market right now
15:33:23 <zheng_xu> q+
15:33:23 <Ralph> ... I've done some evaluation of top-selling titles across different genres, publishers, and geographies
15:33:38 <Ralph> ... I'm disappointed to see there's not a lot taking advantage of what we've built
15:33:54 <Ralph> ... even the a11y stuff that people should be adopting
15:34:06 <Ralph> ... vendors are saying people want as cheap as possible
15:34:13 <wendyreid> q+
15:34:15 <tzviya> q+
15:34:25 <Ralph> ... how can we engage people into getting to the "what readers want" conversation?
15:34:55 <Ralph> Zheng: I agree with that
15:35:16 <Ralph> ... it's also a good idea to bring things up to see where there might be interest
15:36:09 <Ralph> ... we've put a lot into making things stable and reliable
15:36:15 <Ralph> ... but there is business for new stuff too
15:37:52 <Ralph> Wendy: I'm not hearing "as cheap as possible"
15:38:15 <Ralph> ... people have different pricing expectations for ebooks; we won't change that in the standards space
15:38:25 <Ralph> ... users have high expectations for the content they receive
15:38:42 <Ralph> ... I have reams of comments from users about the content and their reading experience
15:38:53 <liisamk> q+
15:39:24 <zheng_xu> q+
15:39:35 <Ralph> ... it would be nice to be able to share these kinds of comments anonymously
15:40:17 <Ralph> Tzviya: I agree with what Wendy said and also in the education world the content must be accessible
15:40:30 <wolfgang> @wendyreid: brilliant idea! empirically founded insights on what users really want!
15:40:33 <Ralph> ... we should be looking ahead a few years too
15:40:41 <Ralph> ... the investment is worthwhile
15:40:52 <Ralph> Liisa: I seem to have been misunderstood
15:41:13 <Ralph> ... by "cheap" I meant that publishers are being cheap in what they're doing
15:41:36 <Ralph> ... we're not getting as close to what users want
15:41:50 <Ralph> ... we should find some way to surface this
15:42:19 <Ralph> ... e.g. if people work on their backlist, work on improving the quality at the same time
15:42:55 <Ralph> ... e.g. I'm surprised that fewer indices are included now and when they are they're not accessible
15:43:16 <Ralph> Zheng: the complaint from users are that the book does not satisfy their expectation
15:44:04 <Ralph> ... I've added a11y indicators in my platform
15:44:20 <AvneeshSingh> q+
15:45:46 <Ralph> topic: EPUB 3 status
15:47:15 <Ralph> Wendy: the WG voted to go to Candidate Recommendation today
15:47:29 <Ralph> ... we hope to publish CR on May 5
15:47:46 <Ralph> ... Dave and I will be doing a talk for TechForum and write an article for publication
15:48:03 <Ralph> ... that's our communication plan at this point
15:48:11 <Bill_Kasdorf_> Note that it's all three specs
15:48:16 <Ralph> ... maybe George can help us reach out to conferences
15:48:25 <Ralph> ... we'll be in testing mode until October
15:48:39 <Ralph> ... and hope to move to Proposed Recomendation then
15:48:55 <ivan> q+
15:48:59 <Ralph> ... we want to tell people "there's nothing in EPUB 3,3 to scare you"
15:49:04 <GeorgeK> Now with EPUB 3.3 going to CR, start a campaign to upgrade EPUB 2 to 3.3; focus on quality!
15:49:07 <AvneeshSingh> q+ to comment on EPUB 3.3 promotion
15:49:10 <Ralph> ... we've done a lot of editorial work to make the spec more understandable
15:49:16 <Zakim> AvneeshSingh, you wanted to comment on EPUB 3.3 promotion
15:50:17 <Ralph> Avneesh: it will be important to communicate migration from EPUB 3.2 to EPUB 3.3 and the impact EPUB 3.3 will have on a11y
15:50:26 <Ralph> ... the aligment with WCAG 2.2 and EU A11y Act
15:50:41 <Ralph> ... we'll have to do a good job of explaining why people should move
15:50:58 <Ralph> Ivan: we've started to discuss this in the WG
15:51:14 <Ralph> ... my feeling is that for the publishers the changes in the document are editorial
15:51:30 <Ralph> ... technically the changes are minimal; more core media types, some features for metadata on i18n
15:51:37 <tzviya> q+ to mention epubcheck
15:51:39 <Ralph> ... for publishers, things do not change really
15:51:51 <Ralph> ... though I agree with Avneesh; the a11y document is the big thing
15:52:02 <Ralph> ... the more important changes are on the reading system side
15:52:13 <Ralph> ... the spec separates the RS spec from the authoring spec
15:52:45 <Ralph> ... there are features that are esoteric for authors and not relevant that are very relevant to RS's
15:52:59 <Ralph> ... 3.3 is very important for the RS developer community
15:53:14 <Ralph> ... the privacy and security material is very relevant to authors
15:53:44 <Ralph> ... in the messaging we should separate the different communities to whom EPUB 3.3 is important
15:54:21 <Ralph> ... mainly thanks to Matt, we have made a lot of improvements editorially and in examples
15:54:26 <Bill_Kasdorf_> q=
15:54:29 <Ralph> ... the spec is simply better written
15:55:49 <ivan> q+
15:56:08 <Zakim> tzviya, you wanted to mention epubcheck
15:56:18 <Ralph> Ralph: should we celebrate in May or wait until October/Novembber?
15:56:21 <Bill_Kasdorf_> q+
15:56:33 <Ralph> Tzviya: epubcheck beta will be released soon
15:56:49 <Ralph> ... it will be feature-complete corresponding to the EPUB 3.3 CR
15:57:01 <Ralph> Ivan: thanks for reminding us of that
15:57:19 <tzviya> s/epubcheck beta/feature complete eubcheck beta
15:57:26 <Ralph> ... on the "when to celebrate" question, there are a lot of explanations to do
15:57:27 <AvneeshSingh> +1 to start in May
15:57:34 <Ralph> ... I advocate for starting publicity in May
15:57:46 <Ralph> ... we don't expect major technical changes to happen as a result of CR
15:57:51 <tzviya> +1 to start in May
15:58:02 <Ralph> ... for the community of publishers to dissipate possible fears it's better to do this early
15:58:07 <liisamk> +1 to May
15:58:16 <Ralph> ... I recommend doing publicity in May
15:58:39 <GeorgeK> q+
15:58:58 <Ralph> Bill: in terms of who should be paying attentioni to which specs,
15:59:08 <Ralph> ... the vendors should be paying the most attention
15:59:22 <Ralph> George; one audience we need to make sure to address is authors
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15:59:37 <Ralph> ... there is still a dominant mindset of print and PDF
16:00:15 <Ralph> ... with so much being on-line now and remote learning, we need to emphasize to authors that they need to demand that their publications get out as EPUB and those are what are placed in stores, not PDF
16:00:31 <Bill_Kasdorf_> a/vendors/production vendors, prepress vendors
16:01:39 <Ralph> [adjourned]
16:01:45 <Ralph> zakim, end meeting
16:01:45 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Wofgang, Ralph, Avneesh, Zheng, AvneeshSingh, Ivan, Bill_Kasdorf, WendyReid, Bill_Kasdorf_, George, tzviya, wolfgang, Mateus, Liisa,
16:01:48 <Zakim> ... liisamk, zheng_xu, shiestyle, GeorgeK
16:01:48 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2
16:01:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/04/08-pbgsc-minutes.html Zakim
16:01:50 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, Ralph; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
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