14:00:10 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #personalization
14:00:10 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/04/04-personalization-irc
14:00:12 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:00:12 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #personalization
14:00:14 <trackbot> Meeting: Personalization Task Force Teleconference
14:00:14 <trackbot> Date: 04 April 2022
14:00:21 <Lionel_Wolberger> 	/invite zakim
14:00:30 <sharon> sharon has joined #personalization
14:00:31 <Lionel_Wolberger> 	/invite rrsagent
14:00:34 <Lionel_Wolberger> agenda?
14:00:43 <Lionel_Wolberger> agenda+ Naming progress, status of EO effort
14:00:50 <Lionel_Wolberger> agenda+ Content Module Implementations Status (Follow-up on issue #144 and issue #203)
14:00:57 <Lionel_Wolberger> agenda+ Issue 202 regarding Visible Indicators on 2.2
14:01:05 <Lionel_Wolberger> agenda+ Planning future COGA meetings on Our Other Two Modules
14:01:07 <Lionel_Wolberger> agenda?
14:01:22 <Lionel_Wolberger> present+
14:02:14 <sharon> present+
14:02:14 <CharlesL1> CharlesL1 has joined #personalization
14:02:38 <CharlesL1> present+
14:02:50 <Lionel_Wolberger> agenda+ New Zoom for APA meetings (Wed)
14:02:59 <Lionel_Wolberger> agenda?
14:04:44 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, order 5 1 2 3 4
14:04:44 <Zakim> I don't understand 'order 5 1 2 3 4', Lionel_Wolberger
14:05:08 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, order 5 1
14:05:08 <Zakim> I don't understand 'order 5 1', Lionel_Wolberger
14:05:57 <becky> becky has joined #personalization
14:05:57 <Lionel_Wolberger> agenda order 5 1 2 3 4
14:06:05 <Lionel_Wolberger> agenda?
14:06:13 <becky> present+
14:06:24 <CharlesL1> agenda?
14:08:58 <becky> present+
14:11:07 <CharlesL1> scribe: CharlesL1
14:12:29 <CharlesL1> zakim, next item
14:12:29 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- New Zoom for APA meetings (Wed) -- taken up [from Lionel_Wolberger]
14:13:09 <CharlesL1> Lionel_Wolberger: New zoom link forAPA meetings update your calendar invites.
14:13:18 <CharlesL1> Zakim, next item
14:13:18 <Zakim> agendum 5 was just opened, CharlesL1
14:13:47 <CharlesL1> zakim, close item 5
14:13:47 <Zakim> agendum 5, New Zoom for APA meetings (Wed), closed
14:13:48 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:13:48 <Zakim> 1. Naming progress, status of EO effort [from Lionel_Wolberger]
14:14:54 <Lionel_Wolberger> The updated APA zoom is on this page, https://www.w3.org/2017/08/telecon-info_apa
14:17:22 <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel tells everyone, APA Zoom meeting zoom starts with 982 from now on
14:19:19 <CharlesL1> Lionel_Wolberger: CFC, 5 responces, 4 were A, and 1 was for B
14:20:00 <CharlesL1> of the A's 1 said they can't live with the other.  1 didn't answer.
14:20:21 <CharlesL1> 1 vote for APT, but can live with the other.
14:20:28 <CharlesL1> clear vote for ADAPT
14:20:32 <CharlesL1> q+
14:20:42 <Lionel_Wolberger> ack CharlesL1
14:20:47 <Matthew_Atkinson> scribe: Matthew_Atkinson
14:20:52 <Matthew_Atkinson> CharlesL1: Did we ask about upper or lower case?
14:20:54 <CharlesL1> Charles: upper/lower case
14:21:39 <Matthew_Atkinson> Janina: we didn't
14:21:48 <Matthew_Atkinson> present+ Janina
14:23:11 <Matthew_Atkinson> Janina: We aim to reach consensus. We may need some further discussion, and have a little time to do that.
14:23:56 <Lionel_Wolberger> q?
14:24:10 <Matthew_Atkinson> Janina: The WAICC call is this Wednesday, and facilitators are welcome, we could have sharon and Lionel_Wolberger join. Would like to have another chat with EO.
14:24:20 <CharlesL1> ack, me
14:24:30 <CharlesL1> q?
14:24:38 <CharlesL1> ack CharlesL1
14:24:48 <CharlesL1> ack CharlesL
14:24:59 <Matthew_Atkinson> Janina: I am concerned we're taking on _all_ of "adapting". We do need the expansion for our first slide for presentations. Whatever we adopt.
14:25:05 <Matthew_Atkinson> scribe: CharlesL1
14:26:17 <CharlesL1> Lionel_Wolberger: John, voted for WAI-ADAPT, I can live better with WAI-Adapt.
14:28:00 <CharlesL1> q+
14:29:31 <sharon> q+
14:29:34 <Lionel_Wolberger> q?
14:30:33 <Lionel_Wolberger> John wrote, FWIW, I can live with WAI-ADAPT, could live better with WAI-Adapt (case sensitivity), and strongly oppose WAI-APT (what's a WAI Apartment?)  (I recognize I've been MIA for a number of weeks now dealing with some personal issues, and was not part of the larger discussion here, but overall I remain fundamentally disappointed with Adapt as a new identifier. I would have preferred something that alluded closer[CUT]
14:31:00 <Lionel_Wolberger> than adaptability, but... that's just me. At the end of the day, we are customizing the UI/UX, but not really impacting the way users can or will interact with it, which to my mind is what adapt suggests - i.e. our work mostly falls under the WCAG Principle of "Perception" and not "Usable". For example, our attribute "destination", when used, makes it easier to comprehend or perceive where or what the destination is, [CUT]
14:31:19 <Lionel_Wolberger> are we modifying the destination or even for that matter the UI - it *might* change the UI, or instead the attribute and value may only be processed by AT.)
14:32:18 <janina> janina has joined #personalization
14:32:28 <janina> present+
14:32:31 <janina> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-personalization-tf/2022Mar/0035.html
14:32:40 <Matthew_Atkinson> scribe: Matthew_Atkinson
14:33:12 <Lionel_Wolberger> q?
14:33:33 <Matthew_Atkinson> CharlesL1: I understand John's concerned that things like 'destination' are not conveyed within ADAPT. I think they are considered, as e.g. icons can be placed in the page to represent those destinations.
14:33:42 <Matthew_Atkinson> ... Therefore we _are_ adapting the UX in those cases.
14:33:47 <janina> +1 to Charles. It's all about adapting what the user experiences
14:33:52 <Lionel_Wolberger> +1 to Charles saying, even 'destination' has aspects of adaptation (depending on what the user agent does)
14:34:00 <Matthew_Atkinson> ... We don't know what the UI is going to look like, and could well be making adaptations.
14:34:14 <Matthew_Atkinson> rrsagent, make minutes
14:34:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/04/04-personalization-minutes.html Matthew_Atkinson
14:34:32 <Matthew_Atkinson> CharlesL1: We can debate upper/lower case, and the needs for the slide deck.
14:35:54 <Lionel_Wolberger> https://daisy.org/activities/software/ace/
14:35:57 <Matthew_Atkinson> CharlesL1: E.g. "DAISY ACE" is now "DAISY Ace" [it's an ePub accessibility checker]
14:36:35 <Matthew_Atkinson> CharlesL1: I'm fine with ADAPT or Adapt. Maybe for EO to guide us.
14:36:42 <Matthew_Atkinson> scribe: CharlesL1
14:36:53 <Lionel_Wolberger> q?
14:36:56 <Lionel_Wolberger> ack CharlesL1
14:36:59 <Lionel_Wolberger> ack sharon
14:37:20 <CharlesL1> sharon: We were going to do the expansion so it looks better on the slides so uppercase would make more sense.
14:37:29 <CharlesL1> ack CharlesL
14:38:22 <CharlesL1> Janina, we also talked about AdApT
14:39:13 <CharlesL1> zakim, take up item 1
14:39:13 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Naming progress, status of EO effort -- taken up [from Lionel_Wolberger]
14:39:19 <Lionel_Wolberger> s/AdApT/AdaPT
14:40:25 <CharlesL1> Matthew_Atkinson: This topic should have been at the top of this conversation.  zakim issues with closing previous topic
14:41:47 <CharlesL1> Janina: Adaptable Personalizable Technologies
14:42:18 <CharlesL1> …, user experience is an adaptation.
14:43:08 <Lionel_Wolberger> q?
14:43:11 <CharlesL1> …, we need wider buy in, not EO / APA / ultimately Judy needs to sign off on this ie. WAI
14:43:50 <Lionel_Wolberger> q?
14:44:00 <CharlesL1> …, I can live with ADAPT, Personalization is claiming too much and this has has a lot of the same characteristics.
14:44:39 <Lionel_Wolberger> Camelcase: adAPT
14:44:39 <CharlesL1> Lionel_Wolberger: I don't like the up/down of camel case.  adAPT would be my vote.
14:45:20 <CharlesL1> Janina: I don't think camel case will work but love playing with the options.
14:46:08 <Lionel_Wolberger> Expansion as camel case: ADAptable Personalizable Technologies
14:46:47 <Lionel_Wolberger> The ADA pops out to remind us of Ada Lovelace and the ADA
14:46:52 <Lionel_Wolberger> q?
14:47:07 <CharlesL1> …, remember the reason for expansion something like CSUN show what it does.
14:47:26 <CharlesL1> Lionel_Wolberger: ADA as (love Lace) or just US ADA :)
14:47:56 <CharlesL1> …, are we accepting this expansion?
14:48:27 <CharlesL1> Matthew_Atkinson: does EO aware of the ADAPT group?  maybe a call with WAI call discussion.
14:48:55 <CharlesL1> Lionel_Wolberger: who will report back to EO?  Janina?
14:48:59 <CharlesL1> janina: Yes
14:49:43 <CharlesL1> Lionel_Wolberger: the expansion does apply either way. ADAPT or APT
14:49:56 <CharlesL1> Janina: I will bring this to WAI and EO
14:50:04 <CharlesL1> Zakim: next item
14:50:04 <Lionel_Wolberger> agenda?
14:50:26 <CharlesL1> zakim, next item
14:50:26 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Content Module Implementations Status (Follow-up on issue #144 and issue #203) -- taken up [from Lionel_Wolberger]
14:50:28 <Matthew_Atkinson> q+
14:50:55 <Lionel_Wolberger> q?
14:51:08 <CharlesL1> q?
14:52:37 <CharlesL1> janina: There is an issue regarding our example with a recipe.  I am inclined to bring this up tomorrow.  Roy said one more week, that week is up.  We noted we are marking up a recipe.
14:53:33 <CharlesL1> Matthew_Atkinson: a transfer from another repo, APA "Ham Sandwich".
14:53:47 <CharlesL1> janina: where does it say to respond below our abstract?
14:54:49 <CharlesL1> Matthew_Atkinson: published by APA, there is no text about responding.  there is no github link.  this came from James Craig.  Latest editors draft does not.
14:56:54 <CharlesL1> …, I agree with Janina, I am disappointed they didn't look at the XML.  I think they don't realize that the rendering is still in flux.  I think until CR these issues can be addressed.  I think they would have realized it has to do with rendering which we shouldn't be held to at this point of time.
14:57:11 <Lionel_Wolberger> q?
14:57:26 <CharlesL1> Janina: we feel this is an implementation issue which is a CR issue.  we can easily demonstrate this was a known issue a long time ago.
14:57:28 <Lionel_Wolberger> ack Matthew_Atkinson
14:58:13 <Matthew_Atkinson> s/, I am disappointed they didn't look at the XML//
14:58:29 <Matthew_Atkinson> s/I think they would have realized it/This/
14:58:33 <Matthew_Atkinson> rrsagent, make minutes
14:58:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/04/04-personalization-minutes.html Matthew_Atkinson
14:59:03 <CharlesL1> Lionel_Wolberger: should we reply to them?  We have talked to the community who needs symbols and that is needed not on the sentence level but for procedural.
14:59:19 <Matthew_Atkinson> s/, I agree with Janina/Regarding issue 144, I agree with Janina/
14:59:20 <Matthew_Atkinson> rrsagent, make minutes
14:59:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/04/04-personalization-minutes.html Matthew_Atkinson
14:59:33 <CharlesL1> Janina and note we brought this up in december.
15:00:09 <CharlesL1> Lionel_Wolberger: the rendering should be optional at this point, Dec. 8th they had access to the XML.
15:00:41 <Matthew_Atkinson> rrsagent, make minutes
15:00:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/04/04-personalization-minutes.html Matthew_Atkinson