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13:44:37 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/03/24-pcg-a11y-irc
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13:45:02 <avneeshsingh> zakim, this will be pcg-a11y
13:45:02 <Zakim> ok, avneeshsingh
13:45:19 <avneeshsingh> present+
13:45:30 <avneeshsingh> chair: avneeshsingh
13:46:04 <avneeshsingh> zakim, agenda+ Start document for guiding, how to write good accessibility summary.
13:46:04 <Zakim> agendum 1 added
13:46:25 <avneeshsingh> zakim, agenda+ Work on extending crosswalk of schema.org accessibility metadata and ONIX to MARC.
13:46:25 <Zakim> agendum 2 added
13:46:45 <avneeshsingh> zakim, agenda+ Any other business.
13:46:45 <Zakim> agendum 3 added
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14:01:23 <GeorgeK> present+
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14:02:13 <gpellegrino> present+
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14:04:40 <gpellegrino> scribe+
14:05:11 <gpellegrino> avneeshsingh: we have some new people, please introduce yourself
14:05:33 <Bill_Kasdorf> present+
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14:07:02 <gpellegrino> Yasmine: I'm Yasmine from IFLA, from the print disability section
14:07:16 <pcalarco> Good day, everyone!
14:07:17 <gpellegrino> Hong: Hi, I'm Hong from Library and Archives Canada
14:07:34 <gpellegrino> avneeshsingh: let's start!
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14:08:12 <avneeshsingh> zakim, next agendum
14:08:12 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Start document for guiding, how to write good accessibility summary -- taken up [from avneeshsingh]
14:08:53 <avneeshsingh> https://github.com/w3c/publ-a11y/issues/86
14:08:55 <gpellegrino> avneeshsingh: we're having a great discussion in the issue tracker
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14:09:10 <avneeshsingh> q?
14:09:29 <gpellegrino> GeorgeK: first question is: do we need an accessibilitySummary?
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14:09:53 <MadeleineRothberg> present+
14:10:00 <gpellegrino> ... now that we have other accessibility metadata displayed in a friendly way
14:10:01 <Michelle_> present+
14:10:13 <gpellegrino> ... it sounds that we need it
14:10:37 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
14:10:50 <Michelle_> q+
14:11:10 <mgarrish> q+
14:12:53 <gpellegrino> gpellegrino: summarizing https://github.com/w3c/publ-a11y/issues/86#issuecomment-1077622631
14:13:03 <avneeshsingh> q+
14:13:14 <gpellegrino> ... I'm now sure we need the field as it is now
14:13:17 <Gautier> q+
14:13:17 <avneeshsingh> q-
14:13:21 <avneeshsingh> ack bill
14:13:53 <gpellegrino> Bill_Kasdorf: I do a lot of work with accessibility offices in universities, and they use that field a lot
14:14:15 <avneeshsingh> ack mich
14:14:16 <gpellegrino> ... for telling what they've done
14:14:20 <gpellegrino> q+
14:14:37 <Naomi_> p+
14:14:43 <Naomi_> present+
14:15:08 <avneeshsingh> ack next
14:15:18 <pcalarco> present+
14:15:47 <gpellegrino> mgarrish: Should we got back to the EPUB WG for make this field not mandatory?
14:15:57 <GeorgeK> q+
14:16:13 <gpellegrino> ... since we don't have clear guidance on how to make this text
14:16:19 <avneeshsingh> ack next
14:16:53 <gpellegrino> Gautier: I had a different opinion, publishers are waiting for a guide on how to write this summary
14:17:24 <gpellegrino> ... I now agree with what Gregorio pointed, maybe this information can be put in another place
14:17:30 <avneeshsingh> ack next
14:18:10 <Bill_Kasdorf> +1 to making it optional
14:18:23 <avneeshsingh> ack george
14:18:33 <gpellegrino> gpellegrino: for me it would be good for making this field optional
14:18:55 <MURATA> +q
14:18:58 <gpellegrino> GeorgeK: do the universities office distribute the files? Do they have a catalog?
14:19:24 <gpellegrino> Bill_Kasdorf: yes, we have the Frame system that report that field
14:19:48 <avneeshsingh> q?
14:19:50 <gpellegrino> ... for a resource remediated for a specific disability, it is useful to now it
14:20:06 <gpellegrino> ... like "i've only added image descriptions"
14:20:20 <avneeshsingh> ack next
14:21:17 <gpellegrino> MURATA: My collegues in DAISY Japan think that this field is useful, but we may abuse of the field, so we may split the field in two: the summary and other text metadata that doesn't fit
14:22:17 <Bill_Kasdorf> even "may" would be okay with me
14:22:40 <gpellegrino> avneeshsingh: to summarize: if we want to make it optional or mandatory, I think we need a guidance for accessibilitySumamry
14:22:50 <gpellegrino> ... for matt: I think we should open an issue in the EPUB 3 issue tracker
14:22:54 <GeorgeK> q+
14:24:00 <gpellegrino> ... for the guidance: it should convey information available in machine readable way, but also other information not available in other metadata
14:24:29 <gpellegrino> GeorgeK: I think that a guidance is needed in any case
14:24:55 <gpellegrino> ... If we move it to the WG we miss part of the public that we have here (like libraries, ecc.)
14:25:30 <Michelle_> q+
14:25:59 <gpellegrino> Chris: in a library system we have great expectation of metadata, but often accessibility metadata is not displayed, so having a summary is useful
14:26:07 <pcalarco> Chris Oliver is Head of Cataloguing at the University of Ottawa Library (Canada)
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14:27:28 <mgarrish> https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/issues/2116
14:28:07 <gpellegrino> GeorgeK: yes, I think this is a good point for deciding to maintain it mandatory or not
14:28:35 <gpellegrino> Charles: if it important for libraries I think we should maintain it mandatory
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14:29:17 <gpellegrino> ... it is a requirement of GCA, but some publishers are making it using copy and paste
14:29:41 <gpellegrino> ... if we have a tool that generates the text it would be useful for publishers
14:30:13 <gpellegrino> avneeshsingh: I think we should postpone this issue
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14:30:20 <gpellegrino> ack Michelle_
14:30:21 <Bill_Kasdorf> I retract my support for may or should. The library case is compelling.
14:30:25 <CharlesL> present+
14:30:29 <gpellegrino> ack GeorgeK
14:31:03 <gpellegrino> Michelle_: for libraries the problem to display metadata and making it available to librarians is a big problem
14:31:19 <avneeshsingh_> q?
14:32:19 <GeorgeK> q+
14:32:33 <gpellegrino> ... working closely with the teams that develop these interfaces I think that having this field is useful
14:33:06 <gpellegrino> q+
14:33:40 <gpellegrino> avneeshsingh: back to the question: do we need a guidance document for writing the summary?
14:34:06 <gpellegrino> GeorgeK: yes we need guidance
14:34:09 <Bill_Kasdorf> +1 to George
14:34:12 <CharlesL> +1 to keeping it a Must and starting the guidance doc.
14:34:23 <gpellegrino> q-
14:34:24 <avneeshsingh_> q?
14:34:43 <avneeshsingh_> ack next
14:34:57 <gpellegrino> ... I think that if we make the field optional, no one will use it
14:35:24 <pcalarco> George, I have not done this work before, but am happy to contribute
14:35:27 <gpellegrino> avneeshsingh_: maybe George can lead the group for the guidance document for accessibilitySummary
14:35:33 <gpellegrino> CharlesL: I can help
14:35:59 <gpellegrino> GeorgeK: ok, we can update the document in the github and then send it to the group
14:36:19 <gpellegrino> avneeshsingh_: I think you can create a subgroup
14:36:20 <gpellegrino> q+
14:36:31 <Bill_Kasdorf> I'll be happy to participate
14:36:56 <Naomi_> I'd also love to participate
14:37:09 <gpellegrino> Gautier: me too
14:37:48 <gpellegrino> gpellegrino: my colleague Elisa would love to participate
14:38:02 <avneeshsingh_> zakim, next agendum
14:38:02 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, avneeshsingh_
14:38:19 <gpellegrino> GeorgeK: it is open for other group members that want to partecipate
14:38:32 <CharlesL> zakim, next item
14:38:32 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, CharlesL
14:38:40 <CharlesL> q?
14:38:44 <gpellegrino> q-
14:38:52 <CharlesL> zakim, next item
14:38:52 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Work on extending crosswalk of schema.org accessibility metadata and ONIX to MARC -- taken up [from avneeshsingh]
14:39:13 <gpellegrino> avneeshsingh_: after last meeting let's see the different action items
14:39:45 <gpellegrino> Chris: I contacted the person in the UNIMARC community, they want to know more
14:40:04 <gpellegrino> ... I've sent them the crosswalk, they'll send back some comments
14:40:19 <avneeshsingh_> q?
14:40:39 <gpellegrino> Gautier: did you receive the document?
14:42:09 <gpellegrino> Gautier: the document is a list of a subset of accessibility metadata available in Schema.org
14:42:27 <gpellegrino> ... for each field I've put a note
14:43:03 <gpellegrino> ... as a glossary; for each information we have ONIX, Schema.org and MARC
14:43:31 <gpellegrino> ... for UNIMARC it is quite simple to map ONIX 196 codelist to UNIMARC
14:43:49 <gpellegrino> ... instead we have few information from MARC21
14:44:16 <gpellegrino> ... at the end of the document I've put a table with two columns: one for UNIMARC and another for MARC21
14:44:35 <gpellegrino> ... the goal is ot complete the columns and put them in the crosswalk
14:46:21 <avneeshsingh_> q?
14:46:24 <gpellegrino> Chris: thank Gautier, I've share this document with my colleague, we're setting up a discussion group for analyzing the document and give feedback
14:46:41 <gpellegrino> .. we'll have a meeting next Wednesday
14:47:10 <gpellegrino> avneeshsingh_: where do we put this document?
14:47:22 <gpellegrino> ... maybe in github?
14:47:40 <gpellegrino> Michelle_: for me github is fine
14:47:56 <gpellegrino> Chris: for me is unusual, but it is fine
14:48:10 <gpellegrino> q+
14:48:14 <gpellegrino> avneeshsingh_: maybe we can put it in a github wiki
14:48:27 <CharlesL> ack gpellegrino
14:48:57 <Gautier> q+
14:49:10 <gpellegrino> gpellegrino: manage tables is complex in wiki
14:49:13 <gpellegrino> q+
14:49:19 <CharlesL> ack Gautier
14:49:25 <Bill_Kasdorf> Could somebody provide a link to a Github guide?
14:49:29 <gpellegrino> Gautier: is there a guide?
14:49:48 <gpellegrino> ... for github
14:49:52 <gpellegrino> q-
14:50:10 <gpellegrino> avneeshsingh_: maybe we can identify one or two editors familiar with github
14:50:34 <gpellegrino> ... I think a lot of work will happen in the different MARC working group
14:50:44 <gpellegrino> ... and in the document we only collect the results
14:51:00 <gpellegrino> Michelle_: I can help in github
14:51:06 <gpellegrino> Chris: fine for me
14:51:07 <Gautier> There are guide here : https://www.w3.org/Guide/
14:51:36 <gpellegrino> avneeshsingh_: who can be the editors?
14:51:38 <avneeshsingh_> q?
14:51:42 <MadeleineRothberg> q+
14:51:48 <Gautier> q+
14:52:10 <gpellegrino> MadeleineRothberg: I can join as a schema representative
14:52:21 <avneeshsingh_> q?
14:52:34 <gpellegrino> q+
14:52:37 <avneeshsingh_> ack next
14:52:46 <avneeshsingh_> ack next
14:52:52 <gpellegrino> Gautier: I can partecipate in the task force
14:53:12 <gpellegrino> ... maybe it would be to have a definition for each metadata
14:54:07 <gpellegrino> ... for mapping and for localization
14:54:26 <avneeshsingh_> q?
14:55:38 <gpellegrino> Hong: I would love to partecipate in the crosswalk, I notice that for most of the metadata is mapped to ONIX, but some links are missed
14:55:48 <avneeshsingh_> ack next
14:55:55 <pcalarco> MARC reference documentation is at https://www.loc.gov/marc/bibliographic/
14:56:15 <gpellegrino> gpellegrino: I can join for the ONIX part
14:56:35 <gpellegrino> avneeshsingh_: AOB?
14:57:17 <gpellegrino> CharlesL: for the definitions are we defining the fields or the values?
14:57:29 <gpellegrino> avneeshsingh_: I think it will depend
14:57:43 <gpellegrino> ... the group can decide
14:58:13 <CharlesL> https://www.w3.org/2021/a11y-discov-vocab/latest/
15:00:04 <gpellegrino> avneeshsingh_: I'll open the invite for the task forces to other people, thank you for the work, have a nice day!
15:00:42 <avneeshsingh_> rrsagent, make logs public
15:01:10 <avneeshsingh_> rrsagent, make minutes
15:01:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/03/24-pcg-a11y-minutes.html avneeshsingh_
15:02:34 <avneeshsingh_> zakim, leave
15:02:34 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been avneeshsingh, GeorgeK, gpellegrino, AlexGrover, Gautier, MURATA, Bill_Kasdorf, mgarrish, MadeleineRothberg, Michelle_, Naomi_,
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15:02:38 <Zakim> ... pcalarco, CharlesL
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