IRC log of personalization on 2022-03-21

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:08:17 [RRSAgent]

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logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/03/21-personalization-irc

13:08:19 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs public

13:08:22 [trackbot]

Meeting: Personalization Task Force Teleconference

13:08:22 [trackbot]

Date: 21 March 2022

13:08:33 [snidersd]

agenda?

13:08:54 [snidersd]

zakim, clear agenda

13:08:54 [Zakim]

agenda cleared

13:10:20 [sharon]

chair: sharon

13:11:32 [sharon]

agenda?

13:11:37 [sharon]

agenda+ Naming progress, status of EO effort

13:11:59 [sharon]

agenda+ Content Module Implementations Status (Follow-up on i18n issue #144)

13:12:22 [sharon]

agenda+ CSUN feedback

13:12:41 [sharon]

agenda+ Issue 202 regarding Visible Indicators on 2.2

13:12:56 [sharon]

agenda+ Planning future COGA meetings on Our Other Two Modules

13:13:00 [sharon]

agenda?

13:36:10 [Roy]

Roy has joined #personalization

13:56:36 [Lionel_Wolberger]

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13:56:55 [janina]

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13:57:04 [janina]

agenda?

13:57:11 [janina]

present+

13:59:29 [Lionel_Wolberger]

present+

14:01:52 [CharlesL]

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14:03:28 [becky]

becky has joined #personalization

14:03:30 [CharlesL]

present+

14:04:03 [Matthew_Atkinson]

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14:04:33 [Matthew_Atkinson]

present+

14:04:39 [Matthew_Atkinson]

zakim, who's here?

14:04:39 [Zakim]

Present: janina, CharlesL, mike_beganyi, Matthew_Atkinson, Roy, Brent, lisas, Lionel_Wolberger, BrianE, shawn, sharon, kevin, CarlosD, MarkPalmer, krisanne, Sylvie, Estella, LauraK

14:04:43 [Zakim]

On IRC I see Matthew_Atkinson, becky, CharlesL, janina, Lionel_Wolberger, Roy, RRSAgent, Joshue108, jamesn, hadleybeeman, Zakim, trackbot

14:04:45 [Matthew_Atkinson]

agenda?

14:05:46 [janina]

zakim, next item?

14:05:46 [Zakim]

I don't understand your question, janina.

14:05:52 [janina]

zakim, next item?

14:05:52 [Zakim]

I don't understand your question, janina.

14:06:02 [janina]

zakim, next item

14:06:02 [Zakim]

agendum 1 -- Naming progress, status of EO effort -- taken up [from sharon]

14:06:10 [janina]

zakim, who's here?

14:06:10 [Zakim]

Present: janina, CharlesL, mike_beganyi, Matthew_Atkinson, Roy, Brent, lisas, Lionel_Wolberger, BrianE, shawn, sharon, kevin, CarlosD, MarkPalmer, krisanne, Sylvie, Estella, LauraK

14:06:13 [Zakim]

On IRC I see Matthew_Atkinson, becky, CharlesL, janina, Lionel_Wolberger, Roy, RRSAgent, Joshue108, jamesn, hadleybeeman, Zakim, trackbot

14:06:29 [Roy]

RRSAgent, make minutes

14:06:29 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/03/21-personalization-minutes.html Roy

14:06:56 [Roy]

RRSAgent, make log public

14:07:01 [Roy]

RRSAgent, make minutes

14:07:01 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/03/21-personalization-minutes.html Roy

14:07:33 [CharlesL]

Present: CharlesL

14:07:44 [CharlesL]

zakim, who's here?

14:07:44 [Zakim]

Present: CharlesL

14:07:46 [Zakim]

On IRC I see Matthew_Atkinson, becky, CharlesL, janina, Lionel_Wolberger, Roy, RRSAgent, Joshue108, jamesn, hadleybeeman, Zakim, trackbot

14:07:50 [janina]

present+

14:07:55 [becky]

present+

14:07:55 [Matthew_Atkinson]

present+

14:07:58 [janina]

zakim, who's here?

14:07:58 [Zakim]

Present: CharlesL, janina, becky, Matthew_Atkinson

14:08:01 [Zakim]

On IRC I see Matthew_Atkinson, becky, CharlesL, janina, Lionel_Wolberger, Roy, RRSAgent, Joshue108, jamesn, hadleybeeman, Zakim, trackbot

14:09:40 [becky]

scribe: becky

14:10:52 [Lionel]

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14:11:04 [Lionel]

agenda?

14:11:05 [becky]

topic: CSUN debrief

14:11:22 [becky]

topic: ERF

14:11:59 [becky]

s/ERB/eBRF

14:12:10 [becky]

topic: eBRF

14:15:21 [janina]

q+

14:15:32 [becky]

CharlesL : American printing house (APH) proposing a new standard for BRF (preformatted braille format). It isn't a formal standard but has been well adopted. Used similar to a PDF - preformatted. eBRG is an electronic format

14:16:15 [becky]

CharlesL: eBRF is new standard, looks like an ePUB - zip file with mulitiple files with different types of content

14:17:02 [becky]

CharlesL: proposal is a word document - pointed out it should be in github so people can comment;

14:17:48 [becky]

CharlesL : looking at XHTML - probably shouldn't limit themselves and use HTML; Charles had concerns for some other missing pieces - no bulleted lists, no table of contents, etc

14:18:38 [Lionel]

q?

14:18:47 [Lionel]

present?

14:18:50 [becky]

CharlesL: current owning group, APH, doesn't want to own - thinking maybe W3C or Daisy to take this over

14:19:05 [Lionel]

q?

14:19:18 [Lionel]

ack shawn

14:19:18 [becky]

CharlesL : others agree with additions I suggested

14:19:31 [Roy]

RRSAgent, make minutes

14:19:31 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/03/21-personalization-minutes.html Roy

14:20:32 [becky]

janina: I would welcome this in APA, it is within scope, agree it needs to be more organized; Daisy seems like just another avenue into W3C since Daisy is engaged in ePUB

14:21:43 [Lionel]

q?

14:23:02 [becky]

Lionel : to clarify a comment about ARIA not being good for braille - how does that affect personalization as I explain personalization as ARIA for personalizing the page

14:23:35 [becky]

janina: believe we need a more generic technology - ARIA is narrowly defined to work with Text to speech

14:25:21 [becky]

s/generic technology/generic technology for accessibility

14:26:45 [Matthew_Atkinson]

q+

14:26:52 [becky]

lionel: will wait for additional investigation by APA chairs before pursuing eBRF under APA

14:29:08 [becky]

lionel: asked for relevance of braille given increase in TTS usage; Braille vendors indicated it is a literacy issue - some people are better at learning via written words vs. spoken word

14:29:33 [becky]

janina: also have issues with mis-pronunciation issues with TTS

14:30:11 [becky]

CharlesL : eBRF meeting was good - 30+ people from industry in attendance

14:30:19 [becky]

topic: CSUN debrief

14:30:31 [Lionel]

q?

14:30:35 [Lionel]

ack janina

14:30:38 [Lionel]

ack Matthew_Atkinson

14:31:43 [Matthew_Atkinson]

zakim, next item

14:31:43 [Zakim]

agendum 2 -- Content Module Implementations Status (Follow-up on i18n issue #144) -- taken up [from sharon]

14:32:04 [Matthew_Atkinson]

zakim, close this item

14:32:05 [Zakim]

agendum 2 closed

14:32:05 [Zakim]

I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

14:32:05 [Zakim]

3. CSUN feedback [from sharon]

14:32:10 [Matthew_Atkinson]

zakim, take up item 3

14:32:10 [Zakim]

agendum 3 -- CSUN feedback -- taken up [from sharon]

14:33:58 [becky]

Lionel : my first CSUN, happy that I went; evangelized personalization and got positive response. spoke with Phill Jenkins from IBM and he was interested in working on an implementation

14:35:38 [becky]

Lionel : Kit W from Salesforce was also interested in an implementation; Chuck and someone else from Oracle also expressed interest

14:36:39 [becky]

lionel: Chuck Adams is person from Oracle. great presentation from Matthew

14:37:49 [Lionel]

Lionel adds to the minutes: Trailhead salesforce (where Kit thinks he can do an implementation)

14:38:04 [becky]

Matthew_Atkinson : lots of great conversations with AGWG chairs and others

14:39:36 [Matthew_Atkinson]

https://www.easyreading.eu/

14:39:49 [becky]

Matthew_Atkinson : Claus has a similar technology to personalization including AAC support; Easy reading EU project

14:40:11 [Matthew_Atkinson]

s/Claus/Klaus/

14:40:34 [sharon]

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14:40:48 [sharon]

agenda?

14:41:09 [sharon]

chair: sharon

14:41:28 [Matthew_Atkinson]

Interim report from CSUN: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-personalization-tf/2022Mar/0020.html

14:41:39 [Matthew_Atkinson]

rrsagent, make minutes

14:41:39 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/03/21-personalization-minutes.html Matthew_Atkinson

14:41:49 [becky]

Matthew_Atkinson: rrsagent, make minutes

14:41:55 [becky]

rrsagent, make minutes

14:41:55 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/03/21-personalization-minutes.html becky

14:43:24 [becky]

Lionel : will work with group to write up an "ask" from various folks about implementing personalization

14:45:30 [becky]

sharon: will make sure folks at IBM are working together rather than silos

14:47:00 [becky]

Matthew_Atkinson: sent an email to the list. it references implementation. people are asking that isn't there already a mechanism for implementing personalization - for example, rdf item props works now.

14:47:38 [becky]

Lionel : RDF is not normative and that causes problems

14:48:30 [becky]

Matthew_Atkinson : we get this by developer focused people; Lionel's answer is good but we need to be able to explain further

14:50:41 [becky]

Matthew_Atkinson : Klaus W is interested in another broad discussion about the burden of responsibility between guideline, content authors, and AT. People feel it is a burden on content authors and is extra work. one way to approach is to have a common framework for all a11y additions. Obviously that is a big discussion larger than this group

14:51:20 [becky]

lionel: authoring load came up at the CSUN presentation and also in private conversations

14:51:37 [becky]

Janina: we also heard this at TPAC

14:53:11 [becky]

lionel: continual innovation everywhere - more Text to speech; magnification, etc. very exciting

14:53:34 [Matthew_Atkinson]

agenda?

14:53:37 [becky]

zakim, take up item 1

14:53:37 [Zakim]

agendum 1 -- Naming progress, status of EO effort -- taken up [from sharon]

14:54:04 [becky]

zakim, take up item 2

14:54:04 [Zakim]

agendum 2 -- Content Module Implementations Status (Follow-up on i18n issue #144) -- taken up [from sharon]

14:54:17 [Roy]

q+

14:54:25 [becky]

janina: no response yet, I will take this up with APA chairs

14:54:26 [sharon]

ack Roy

14:54:47 [becky]

Roy: I spoke with I18N contact and he promised to bring that up with the group for feedback

14:57:07 [becky]

zakim, take up item 1

14:57:07 [Zakim]

agendum 1 -- Naming progress, status of EO effort -- taken up [from sharon]

14:58:20 [Matthew_Atkinson]

https://github.com/w3c/wai-personalization-standards/issues/7

14:59:49 [becky]

lionel: EO did have a formal process and made an official suggestion, ADAPT. We need to respond to that before throwing out other terms; I liked ADAPT; happy to hear other comments

15:00:35 [becky]

rrsagent, make minutes

15:00:35 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/03/21-personalization-minutes.html becky

15:00:56 [becky]

zakim, bye

15:00:56 [Zakim]

leaving. As of this point the attendees have been CharlesL, janina, becky, Matthew_Atkinson

15:00:56 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #personalization

15:01:48 [sharon]

present+

15:02:09 [becky]

becky: another suggestion for naming: APT - Adaptable Personalization Techniques

15:02:16 [becky]

rrsagent, make minutes

15:02:16 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/03/21-personalization-minutes.html becky

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