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14:46:45 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/03/10-pcg-a11y-irc
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14:47:11 <avneeshsingh> zakim, this will be pcg-a11y
14:47:11 <Zakim> ok, avneeshsingh
14:47:27 <avneeshsingh> present+
14:47:48 <avneeshsingh> chair: avneeshsingh
14:48:16 <avneeshsingh> zakim, next agendum
14:48:16 <Zakim> I see nothing on the agenda
14:48:30 <avneeshsingh> zakim, agenda+ Work on extending crosswalk of schema.org accessibility metadata and ONIX to MARC.
14:48:31 <Zakim> agendum 1 added
14:48:55 <avneeshsingh> zakim, agenda+ Start document for guiding, how to write good accessibility summary.
14:48:55 <Zakim> agendum 2 added
14:49:19 <avneeshsingh> zakim, agenda+ Any other business.
14:49:19 <Zakim> agendum 3 added
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14:59:44 <AlexGrover_> present+
15:00:19 <tzviya> present+
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15:02:37 <MadeleineRothberg> present+
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15:05:27 <MadeleineRothberg> scribe+
15:05:56 <MadeleineRothberg> Introductions
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15:09:32 <MURATA> +present
15:09:32 <Bill_Kasdorf> present+
15:09:40 <MURATA> present+
15:10:59 <CharlesL> present+
15:11:06 <Michelle_> present+
15:11:07 <avneeshsingh> zakim, next agendum
15:11:07 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Work on extending crosswalk of schema.org accessibility metadata and ONIX to MARC -- taken up [from avneeshsingh]
15:11:10 <GeorgeK> present+
15:11:18 <Miiak> present+
15:11:40 <avneeshsingh> https://w3c.github.io/a11y-discov-vocab/crosswalk/
15:12:18 <CharlesL> rrsagent, make logs public
15:12:21 <MadeleineRothberg> [avneesh] UniMarc or Marc21
15:12:34 <tzviya> s/[avneesh] /avneesh:
15:12:39 <MadeleineRothberg> [Michelle] There are even more but those two are fine to start
15:13:02 <avneeshsingh> q?
15:13:06 <Michelle_> speaker+
15:13:50 <tzviya> s/[Michelle]/Michelle:
15:13:54 <avneeshsingh> q?
15:13:59 <Gautier> q+
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15:14:07 <avneeshsingh> ack next
15:14:32 <Christopher_Carr> +
15:14:38 <MadeleineRothberg> Gautier: France is waiting to see a complete set before adding to Unimarc. They are watching what we do.
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15:14:52 <MadeleineRothberg> ... Unimarc has a mapping for ONIX 196
15:16:06 <MadeleineRothberg> Avneesh: we should have a liaison to that group
15:16:16 <MadeleineRothberg> Gautier: I will encourage them to join us
15:17:21 <MadeleineRothberg> Chris Oliver: Also on IFLA committee on standards. MARC reports to them. They will be interested and I can make a contact there
15:17:56 <avneeshsingh> q?
15:18:00 <Gautier> q+
15:18:06 <MadeleineRothberg> Avneesh: Is MARC21 also in progress?
15:18:13 <avneeshsingh> ack next
15:19:19 <MadeleineRothberg> Gautier: I started to make a table with MARC21 and UniMarc and I would like to have it reviewed by MARC and UniMarc specialists. I can publish it as a work in progress.
15:20:10 <GeorgeK> q+
15:20:13 <MadeleineRothberg> Chris Oliver: Chris Carr and Julie Cardinale have been wanting this mapping. We may need more granularity to ensure we retain all the richness of the metadata
15:20:25 <avneeshsingh> ack george
15:21:06 <MadeleineRothberg> George: Interest in Marrakesh means we should ask WIPO-ABC to add the metadata to their system of records as people start providing it.
15:21:42 <MadeleineRothberg> Avneesh: that might not be needed for a little while yet
15:22:04 <Christopher_Carr> present+
15:22:09 <avneeshsingh> q?
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15:22:43 <Christopher_Carr> q+
15:23:10 <gpellegrino> present+
15:23:32 <MadeleineRothberg> Chris Oliver: LOC has announced they will use MARC fields. Vocabularies are also important. Also how to display to the user is important, as this group has been working on
15:24:33 <MadeleineRothberg> Avneesh: Either this work goes on in another group and we collaborate with them, but if no one is doing it, we could start it in this group. What do people think?
15:24:34 <avneeshsingh> q?
15:25:26 <Michelle_> q+
15:25:30 <MadeleineRothberg> Christopher_Carr: Canadian Committee on Metadata Exchange created the fields but didn't get good uptake. LOC needs a vocabulary list before they can use it and we want to use W3C vocabulary
15:26:17 <MadeleineRothberg> ... also working with audio video catalogers group who are interested in helping with the vocabulary. LOC is also interested in helping but the effort got stalled
15:26:55 <MadeleineRothberg> ... Libraries have guidelines to say use accessibility markup but no details. I'd like to help move this forward.
15:27:14 <avneeshsingh> q?
15:27:30 <avneeshsingh> ack next
15:28:53 <avneeshsingh> ack next
15:29:57 <MadeleineRothberg> Michelle: I suggest working with the Genre Form groups rather than Subject Heading, if it fits in the 655s.
15:30:25 <MadeleineRothberg> ... controlled vocabularies are handled differently than the fields.
15:30:57 <MadeleineRothberg> ... work on new ways to use MARC fields is in progress in the Music group
15:31:07 <avneeshsingh> q?
15:31:40 <CharlesL> q+
15:31:43 <MadeleineRothberg> Chris Oliver: Need to know what the cross-walk looks like before we can make a concrete proposal. Make a working group to look at cross-walk that Gautier has started
15:32:12 <MadeleineRothberg> ... then go to committees such as Canadian CME to make a proposal.
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15:32:37 <MadeleineRothberg> ... See what we need to add. More subfields? Just vocabulary?
15:32:38 <avneeshsingh> q?
15:33:11 <MadeleineRothberg> ... RDA has an accessibility content element. No granularity. Could create a more granular implementation to connect to RDA data model through that element
15:33:22 <MadeleineRothberg> ... Or bring a proposal to RDA for greater granularity
15:33:46 <avneeshsingh> ack char
15:33:47 <MadeleineRothberg> ... Could be a good time to push for more standards since equity is on the agenda everywhere
15:34:28 <Michelle_> q+
15:34:52 <MadeleineRothberg> Charles: Good to hear MARC has some work in place. With ONIX, we saw what was already there and suggested some new fields.
15:35:20 <GeorgeK> q+
15:35:33 <avneeshsingh> q?
15:35:42 <MadeleineRothberg> ... Same approach here? Start with experts on both sides to see what is already matching and then see what is needed
15:36:13 <avneeshsingh> ack next
15:36:48 <CharlesL> q+
15:37:04 <MadeleineRothberg> Michelle: Does the crosswalk reflect the actual state of MARC records in other platforms? There's a lot of wonderful work by people making MARC records doing all sorts of things that discovery systems don't use
15:37:40 <MadeleineRothberg> ... want to be functional and useful in the real world?
15:37:48 <avneeshsingh> ack george
15:38:10 <tzviya> q+ to answer Michelle_
15:38:12 <MadeleineRothberg> George: Vendors like VitalSource and Red Shelf and NELS in Canada have done some mapping.
15:38:39 <MadeleineRothberg> ... vendors display accessibility metadata in their online catalogs so professors can see it, students can see it
15:39:02 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
15:39:17 <MadeleineRothberg> ... Would love to see that in libraries so patrons can find items they can use
15:39:30 <avneeshsingh> q?
15:39:57 <MadeleineRothberg> ... My understanding is that MARC has a bucket for a11y but no details
15:40:13 <MadeleineRothberg> Michelle: there are tags inside the field, but it is one field.
15:40:31 <Christopher_Carr> q+
15:40:32 <MadeleineRothberg> ... There are other ways to manipulate MARC for example Genre Form fields
15:40:47 <Michelle_> https://www.loc.gov/marc/bibliographic/bd341.html
15:43:47 <MadeleineRothberg> Michelle: Need to investigate if systems are exposing 341 for users
15:44:05 <avneeshsingh> ack charles
15:44:21 <Gautier> q+
15:44:24 <MadeleineRothberg> Charles: Discovery is very important to us, so we do want to enable that
15:44:50 <Kirsi> There is also another MARC21 field 532 Accessibility Note: https://www.loc.gov/marc/bibliographic/bd532.html
15:45:00 <MadeleineRothberg> ... start with mapping and then also work on discovery interfaces
15:45:05 <GeorgeK> q+
15:45:11 <avneeshsingh> ack tzv
15:45:11 <Zakim> tzviya, you wanted to answer Michelle_
15:46:21 <MadeleineRothberg> Tzviya: The 341 list looks like it will fit in well with our previous work. Implementation isn't needed for this level of W3C work, but we will want to get this out for inclusion and then eventually systems will adapt it
15:46:48 <MadeleineRothberg> ... European Accessibility Act requirements will be a big help, just need to get the mapping to everyone who needs it
15:46:51 <avneeshsingh> ack bill
15:47:25 <MadeleineRothberg> Bill: Would be great to use this in WorldCat. I have contacts at OCLC. Maybe we should get someone there involved
15:47:52 <avneeshsingh> ack next
15:47:55 <MadeleineRothberg> Avneesh: Yes, after cross-walk and after missing pieces are filled in, then we talk to WorldCat and Accessible Book Service
15:48:28 <MadeleineRothberg> Christopher Carr: Second field is 532 for Accessibility Note, human readable description of features, hazards, and things that are lacking
15:48:53 <avneeshsingh> q?
15:48:54 <MadeleineRothberg> ... No one has implemented because there is no vocabulary to fill the 341 field
15:48:55 <Michelle_> For discovery purposes, the 532 will be hard to index
15:49:21 <MadeleineRothberg> ... No, not hazards. But that might be able to be added
15:49:43 <MadeleineRothberg> ... We looked to match Schema.org list so it should work well together
15:49:57 <MadeleineRothberg> ... good for all materials in library, not just print, which is great
15:50:37 <MadeleineRothberg> ... If we approach LOC with a stable vocab with a stable supporting organization, they may be more open to it
15:51:47 <MadeleineRothberg> ... For Canada we would need it in French as well, which we would need to approve
15:52:03 <avneeshsingh> ack next
15:52:34 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
15:52:55 <MadeleineRothberg> Gautier: Cross-walk could have surprises. Many of the fields we need may exists in MARC outside 341, but we need to go and find them. Reflowable, pagination, not flagged for a11y but are there
15:53:26 <MadeleineRothberg> s/exists/exist
15:54:14 <avneeshsingh> ack george
15:54:17 <MadeleineRothberg> ... We should collect list of people using this info
15:54:33 <MadeleineRothberg> George: Is 532 a direct map to our summary field?
15:54:40 <MadeleineRothberg> Charles: Sounds like
15:54:50 <MadeleineRothberg> Michelle: Depends how it is used, could be
15:55:02 <avneeshsingh> q?
15:55:40 <MadeleineRothberg> George: EPUB has schema.org inside, but ONIX is external. Which will be either for MARC systems to ingest?
15:55:50 <avneeshsingh> ack bill
15:56:32 <MadeleineRothberg> Bill: LOC would need the vocab to have a permanent home. Is W3C recommendation appropriate? Is Registry needed?
15:56:53 <avneeshsingh> q?
15:57:02 <MadeleineRothberg> Avneesh: Those are difficult decisions, for later
15:57:28 <MadeleineRothberg> Chris Oliver: Best practices and guidelines are very important for helping people use the new metadata
15:58:44 <MadeleineRothberg> Avneesh: UniMARC is further along. MARC21 is promising. We should start by filling out the cross-walk to see if there are gaps.
15:59:03 <MadeleineRothberg> ... First step is the cross-walk which Gautier has started
15:59:04 <Gautier> q+
15:59:26 <avneeshsingh> ack next
15:59:57 <MadeleineRothberg> Gautier: Work was started in French so needs some adaptation to share in English. Will try to do for next week.
16:00:26 <MadeleineRothberg> Chris Oliver: add me to the mailing list, and also Chris Carr
16:00:37 <MadeleineRothberg> Michelle: I can also join the mailing list
16:00:52 <MadeleineRothberg> George: I will send out a link for joining
16:01:28 <avneeshsingh> https://github.com/w3c/publ-a11y/issues/86
16:01:37 <MadeleineRothberg> Avneesh: Not much time for agenda about Summary. Please comment on the issue tracker
16:02:36 <MadeleineRothberg> Avneesh: Thank you everyone for this great call and for the new experts who have joined us
16:03:03 <CharlesL> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:03:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/03/10-pcg-a11y-minutes.html CharlesL
16:03:14 <avneeshsingh> rrsagent, make logs public
16:03:26 <avneeshsingh> rrsagent, make minutes
16:03:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/03/10-pcg-a11y-minutes.html avneeshsingh
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16:14:48 <avneeshsingh> zakim, leave
16:14:48 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been avneeshsingh, AlexGrover_, tzviya, MadeleineRothberg, Gautier, present, Bill_Kasdorf, MURATA, CharlesL, Michelle_, GeorgeK,
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16:14:51 <Zakim> ... Miiak, Christopher_Carr, gpellegrino
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