15:01:45 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wot-td
15:01:45 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/03/09-wot-td-irc
15:02:22 <kaz> meeting: WoT-WG - TD-TF
15:03:35 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Daniel_Peintner, Ege_Korkan, Sebastian_Kaebisch
15:03:35 <Ege> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1420
15:04:10 <JKRhb> JKRhb has joined #wot-td
15:06:03 <kaz> scribenick: kaz
15:06:13 <kaz> i/https/topic: Agenda
15:06:25 <kaz> i/https/scribenick: kaz/
15:06:35 <kaz> topic: Minues
15:06:41 <kaz> s/Minues/Minutes/
15:06:59 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/2022/03/02-wot-td-minutes.html Mar-2
15:07:47 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Sebastian_Kaebisch, Daniel_Peintner, Ege_Korkan, Jan_Romann, Tomoaki_Mizushima
15:07:53 <kaz> (goes through the minutes)
15:12:28 <mjk> mjk has joined #wot-td
15:17:49 <mjk> q?
15:24:49 <kaz> approved
15:25:10 <kaz> topic: TD
15:25:15 <kaz> subtopic: updated WD
15:25:25 <kaz> sk: Kaz is working on the document check
15:26:09 <kaz> -> https://w3c.github.io/wot-thing-description/publication/ver11/3-wd/Overview.html static HTML for publication
15:26:28 <kaz> kaz: already installed the .htaccess file for v1.1 namespace redirection
15:26:47 <kaz> ... waiting the update by the w3 server
15:26:59 <kaz> subtopic: Testfest
15:27:13 <kaz> sk: Please implement as much as possible new features from TD 1.1 spec
15:27:25 <kaz> ... and join the Plugfest/Testfest next week
15:28:58 <kaz> subtopic: Wide review
15:29:35 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1382 PR 1382 - Create Security and Privacy Questionnaire Answers for Ver 1.1 CR Process
15:29:52 <kaz> sk: comments on the security/privacy questionnaire answers
15:30:16 <kaz> ... Lagally also gave comments
15:30:24 <kaz> ... we should not merge this today
15:30:31 <kaz> ... let's revisit this next week
15:30:52 <kaz> subtopic: Explainer
15:31:22 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1397 PR 1397 - WIP: Explainer 1.1
15:32:18 <kaz> sk: generated a rendered version Explainer
15:32:29 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/blob/explainer11/explainer/Explainer11.md updated Explainer for v1.1
15:34:34 <kaz> (goes through the updated Explainer)
15:40:56 <kaz> subtopic: Accessibility
15:41:37 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues/21 a11y-request Issue 21 - Web of Things (WoT) Thing Description 1.1 2021-01-26 > 2021-03-15
15:41:42 <kaz> sk: waiting for response
15:41:53 <kaz> subtopic: I18N
15:42:25 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/issues/171 i18n-request Issue 171 - Web of Things (WoT) Thing Description 1.1 2021-02-02 > 2021-03-30
15:42:43 <kaz> sk: Ege, have you talked about TD issue 1416?
15:43:25 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1416 Issue 1416 - Use of direction heuristic needs work
15:44:03 <kaz> q+
15:44:20 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/2022/03/02-wot-td-minutes.html#t02 last week discussion
15:44:36 <kaz> kaz: there was discussion on this Issue as well during the prev call
15:44:48 <kaz> sk: (looks at the prev minutes)
15:45:19 <kaz> ek: can look into it
15:48:38 <kaz> sk: (looks at Issue 1412 as well)
15:48:58 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1416 Issue 1416 - Languages of service-doc?
15:49:10 <kaz> sk: content negotiation?
15:49:23 <kaz> ... wondering how HTML handles it
15:50:00 <kaz> ek: there is some tag for that purpose
15:50:15 <kaz> q+
15:50:59 <kaz> kaz: content negotiation itself is handled by the HTTP server like Apache using .htaccess, etc.
15:51:40 <kaz> ek: any REC about that?
15:51:54 <kaz> kaz: not sure but should be some page by i18n group
15:52:31 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec12.html RFC 2616 excerpt
15:52:57 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/blog/2006/02/content-negotiation/ W3C Blog
15:53:42 <kaz> ek: will look into it by the next meeting
15:54:16 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1412#issuecomment-1063072454 Sebastian adds a comment
15:54:32 <kaz> subtopic: TAG
15:55:07 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/issues/715 design-reviews Issue 715 - WIP: Web of Things (WoT) Thing Description 1.1 - Security Review
15:55:14 <kaz> sk: ongoing
15:55:49 <kaz> subtopic: PRs
15:56:03 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pulls PRs
15:56:12 <kaz> sk: (goes through the PRs quickly)
15:57:02 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1402 PR 1402 - WIP: Additional Security and Privacy Considerations
15:57:09 <kaz> sk: need McCool's participation
15:57:41 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1419 PR 1419 - Add auto value for the in field of SecuritySchemes
15:57:48 <kaz> sk: hold off for a while
15:57:54 <kaz> ... Jan, status?
15:57:57 <dape> q+ to shall we mark this PR as WIP
15:58:02 <kaz> jr: creating another PR
15:58:07 <kaz> ack k
15:58:47 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1421 related PR 1421 - feat: Add AutoSecurityScheme
15:59:13 <kaz> jr: not sure what would be the best solution
16:00:13 <kaz> sk: for what case, the auto security scheme to be used?
16:00:46 <kaz> jr: not actually sure if the use case is already covered by no security
16:01:22 <kaz> ... maybe we can continue more discussion during the Security call
16:03:12 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1394 related Issue 1394 - name and in fields for BasicSecurityScheme and DigestSecurityScheme needed?
16:03:25 <kaz> sk: maybe you can discuss this during the next Security call
16:04:07 <kaz> jr: currently the security schemes are HTTP-centric
16:04:21 <kaz> ... probably fine with using it, though
16:04:45 <kaz> ... would discuss this during the next Security call
16:04:58 <kaz> kaz: note there will be no Security call on Mar-14
16:05:09 <kaz> ... so probably Mar-21
16:05:24 <kaz> sk: Philipp is also attending the Security calls. right?
16:05:32 <kaz> jr: yes
16:05:45 <kaz> sk: let's wait a bit more then
16:06:10 <kaz> ... would be better to defer this
16:07:25 <dape> q?
16:07:37 <kaz> ack d
16:07:37 <Zakim> dape, you wanted to shall we mark this PR as WIP
16:07:52 <kaz> dp: make sense to mark it as wip?
16:08:09 <dape> ack dape
16:08:28 <kaz> sk: (change the status of PR 1421 to "Draft")
16:09:06 <kaz> ... (also adds comments to PR 1419)
16:09:38 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1419 PR 1419 - Add auto value for the in field of SecuritySchemes
16:09:56 <kaz> sk: (then close PR 1419)
16:10:06 <kaz> ... new PR already available
16:10:39 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1421 related newer PR 1421 - feat: Add AutoSecurityScheme
16:11:20 <kaz> sk: (then move ahead)
16:11:32 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1331 PR 1331 - fix: move CBOR content types their own table row in section 5.3.2
16:11:54 <kaz> merged
16:12:46 <kaz> subtopic: Issues
16:13:01 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1408 Issue 1408 - Actions with cancel and query operations, the meaning of input and output, dynamic href
16:13:13 <kaz> q+
16:14:00 <kaz> sk: (shows the Profile spec as well)
16:14:20 <kaz> -> https://w3c.github.io/wot-profile/#async-action-response wot-profile 6.3.2.1.3 Asynchronous Action Response
16:14:50 <kaz> sk: need to see if this need is valid
16:15:30 <kaz> ... the example on the Issue itself is not clear enough
16:17:09 <kaz> kaz: there was discussion during the Scripting and Profile calls as well
16:18:03 <kaz> ... I strongly suggested we work on concrete use case description including detailed scenario about devices and network setting
16:18:34 <kaz> ... because this feature would require us to consider history management, grouping of multiple devices, session handling, etc.
16:18:37 <kaz> sk: right
16:18:38 <Ege> q+
16:18:50 <kaz> ack k
16:19:03 <kaz> ... clarify the need for this feature is needed
16:19:11 <kaz> ... would defer to the next version
16:19:55 <kaz> ... maybe not ready for REC during this Charter period
16:19:57 <kaz> q?
16:19:59 <kaz> ack e
16:20:22 <kaz> ek: if something is implemented but only for one Profile is not enough
16:20:58 <kaz> ... not only about this proposed feature
16:21:17 <kaz> q+
16:22:09 <kaz> kaz: which document do you mean?
16:22:20 <kaz> ... as for TD, we should think about the assertions defined by TD itself
16:22:31 <kaz> ... don't need to refer to the Profile spec
16:23:35 <dape> q+
16:24:56 <kaz> sk: we should clarify some of the features might be available only for some of the specific Profiles
16:25:54 <kaz> kaz: we don't need to mention that within the TD spec because TD is generic data model definition
16:26:30 <kaz> dp: for just looking at TD, the description on 'op' is vague
16:27:50 <kaz> kaz: in that case, we should improve the definition within TD itself
16:28:14 <Ege> q+
16:28:17 <dape> ack dape
16:28:29 <kaz> ack k
16:28:34 <kaz> q+
16:29:22 <sebastian> ack e
16:29:50 <kaz> ek: additional information needed for protocol, etc.
16:29:56 <kaz> ... subscribe event as well
16:30:12 <kaz> ... specific protocol binding like MQTT
16:30:20 <kaz> ... maybe it's ok
16:30:39 <kaz> ... but we should add information on invocation of events
16:31:02 <kaz> ... cancel action for payload, etc.
16:33:03 <kaz> kaz: I'm also aware of the potential dependency among specs, and that's why I repeatedly asked all the Editors to look into the issues about dependency among specs last year
16:33:18 <kaz> ... and I thought all the issues have been resolved
16:33:44 <kaz> ... however, if we still have any problems with dependency among specs, we should look into the issues again
16:34:10 <kaz> ... but if the problem is about this feature, we should revisit this for TD Ver. 2.0
16:34:23 <kaz> sk: yeah, would revisit this for TD Ver. 2.0
16:35:15 <kaz> ... maybe we can remove some of the terms (marked as at-risk) listed here within the TD Ver. 1.1
16:35:21 <dape> q?
16:35:44 <kaz> ack k
16:35:48 <kaz> kaz: yeah
16:36:04 <kaz> ... if we really want, we might be able to start further discussion for 2.0
16:36:31 <kaz> ... but probably we should concentrate on wrapping up 1.1 given we're planning to transition to CR soon
16:37:39 <kaz> sk: (adds comments)
16:37:49 <kaz> ... so far the query operations are kept in the spec
16:38:34 <kaz> ... additional text as an Editor note to be added that this p values are currently used by the WoT Profile document
16:39:34 <kaz> ... most likely the values will be marked as at-risk
16:40:08 <kaz> kaz: the Profile document currently includes some of the implementation guideline in addition to the definition of Profile itself
16:40:27 <kaz> ... maybe we could move that portion from the Profile document to the TD spec at some point
16:41:09 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
16:41:11 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:41:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/03/09-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
16:41:32 <kaz> -> @@@ Sebastian's comments added
16:41:43 <kaz> subtopic: Issue 1417
16:42:13 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1417 Issue 1417 - Default values of readOnly and writeOnly for non-property affordances
16:42:50 <JKRhb> q+
16:43:08 <kaz> s/subtopic: Issue 1417//
16:43:53 <kaz> s|@@@|https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1408#issuecomment-1063124261|
16:45:06 <kaz> -> https://w3c.github.io/wot-thing-description/#sec-default-values Sebastian shows TD section 5.4 Default Value Definitions
16:45:40 <dape> q?
16:46:04 <kaz> -> https://w3c.github.io/wot-thing-description/visualization/td.svg also Figure 1
16:46:07 <kaz> q?
16:46:09 <kaz> ack j
16:46:17 <kaz> jr: good solution for issue 10
16:46:46 <kaz> ... can be postponed
16:47:11 <kaz> sk: but one example already using this
16:47:29 <kaz> ... "writeOnly": true
16:48:55 <kaz> -> https://w3c.github.io/wot-thing-description/#example-67 Temperature Event with subscription and cancellation example including [["writeOnly": true]]
16:49:10 <kaz> sk: personally think this is an ugly example...
16:49:41 <kaz> ... open to change this itself
16:49:48 <kaz> q?
16:51:01 <kaz> ek: issue with defining default values
16:51:38 <kaz> sk: ok
16:51:49 <kaz> ... let's work on this
16:52:00 <kaz> ... (assigns it to Sebastian himself)
16:52:33 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/931 Content Type for Thing Model (IANA registration needed)
16:53:16 <kaz> q+
16:55:10 <kaz> ack k
16:55:19 <kaz> kaz: if needed, this request should be fine
16:55:55 <kaz> ... but for TD Ver. 1.1, we should mention we already got registered for application/td+json
16:56:37 <kaz> ... and then explain we'd like to register an additional media type for application/tm+json and also extend application/td+json with some more suffixes
16:56:41 <kaz> sk: ok
16:57:12 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1420 Issue 1420 - Restricting the context url in JSON Schema
16:58:04 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/blob/main/validation/td-json-schema-validation.json#L67 related resource on JSON Schema
16:58:13 <dape> q+
16:58:27 <kaz> ek: currently three name spaces are allowed
16:58:51 <kaz> [[
16:58:52 <kaz>          "https://www.w3.org/2019/wot/td/v1",
16:58:52 <kaz>           "http://www.w3.org/ns/td",
16:58:52 <kaz>           "https://www.w3.org/2022/wot/td/v1.1"
16:58:52 <kaz> ]]
16:59:29 <kaz> sk: would people use the new namespace for TD Ver. 1.1
16:59:52 <kaz> ... and also we should allow the old namespace too
17:00:10 <dape> ack dape
17:00:54 <kaz> ... not sure how to express it for JSON Schema
17:01:08 <kaz> ... ok with the proposed way
17:01:41 <kaz> q+
17:02:32 <kaz> kaz: for clarification, you mean "http://www.w3.org/ns/td" by "temporary one to be removed". right?
17:02:34 <kaz> ek: yes
17:02:56 <kaz> sk: Ege will work on that by Monday for the Testfest
17:04:07 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1407 Issue 1407 - Additional composition mechanism for Thing Models
17:04:16 <kaz> sk: OK to talk about that next time?
17:04:28 <kaz> jr: maybe asynchronously on GitHub
17:04:35 <kaz> topic: Next week
17:04:45 <kaz> sk: no TD call due to the Plugfest/Testfest
17:04:53 <kaz> ... please join the event instead
17:04:56 <kaz> [adjourned]
17:05:00 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:05:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/03/09-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
18:14:22 <sebastian> sebastian has joined #wot-td
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