IRC log of dxwgdcat on 2022-03-08

Timestamps are in UTC.

20:56:56 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #dxwgdcat
20:56:56 [RRSAgent]
logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/03/08-dxwgdcat-irc
20:57:07 [riccardoAlbertoni]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
20:57:07 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/03/08-dxwgdcat-minutes.html riccardoAlbertoni
20:57:19 [riccardoAlbertoni]
RRSAgent, make logs public
20:57:39 [riccardoAlbertoni]
zakim, start meeting
20:57:39 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, make logs Public
20:57:40 [Zakim]
please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), riccardoAlbertoni
20:57:51 [riccardoAlbertoni]
meeting: DXWG DCAT subgroup
20:58:04 [riccardoAlbertoni]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
20:58:04 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/03/08-dxwgdcat-minutes.html riccardoAlbertoni
20:58:25 [riccardoAlbertoni]
RRSAgent, make logs public
20:58:36 [riccardoAlbertoni]
present +
20:59:36 [riccardoAlbertoni]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
20:59:36 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/03/08-dxwgdcat-minutes.html riccardoAlbertoni
20:59:50 [riccardoAlbertoni]
present+
21:00:00 [riccardoAlbertoni]
RRSAgent, make logs public
21:03:29 [AndreaPerego]
AndreaPerego has joined #dxwgdcat
21:04:04 [AndreaPerego]
present+
21:05:33 [Nobu_OGURA]
Nobu_OGURA has joined #dxwgdcat
21:05:54 [alejandra]
alejandra has joined #dxwgdcat
21:06:00 [AndreaPerego]
scribenick: AndreaPerego
21:06:16 [AndreaPerego]
regrets+ DaveBrowning
21:06:33 [alejandra]
present+
21:07:07 [AndreaPerego]
chair: riccardoAlbertoni, alejandra
21:07:12 [riccardoAlbertoni]
PROPOSED: approve last meeting minutes https://www.w3.org/2022/02/22-dxwgdcat-minutes
21:07:18 [AndreaPerego]
topic: accept last meeting minutes
21:07:21 [alejandra]
+0
21:07:21 [AndreaPerego]
+1
21:07:25 [riccardoAlbertoni]
+1
21:07:34 [Nobu_OGURA]
+1
21:07:44 [riccardoAlbertoni]
RESOLVED: approve last meeting minutes https://www.w3.org/2022/02/22-dxwgdcat-minutes
21:07:46 [AndreaPerego]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
21:07:46 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/03/08-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego
21:07:58 [AndreaPerego]
topic: approve agenda
21:08:02 [alejandra]
Topic: Responding to one of the Nobu's questions
21:08:15 [AndreaPerego]
agenda: https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2022.03.08
21:09:11 [Nobu_OGURA]
+q
21:10:29 [AndreaPerego]
riccardoAlbertoni: Let's look at Nobu_OGURA 's question on the difference between dcat:Distribution vs dcat:DataService
21:11:19 [AndreaPerego]
riccardoAlbertoni: (explaining what a dcat:Distribution and a dcat:DataService are about)
21:11:35 [AndreaPerego]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
21:11:35 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/03/08-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego
21:11:48 [AndreaPerego]
present+ Nobu_OGURA
21:11:49 [AndreaPerego]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
21:11:49 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/03/08-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego
21:12:26 [riccardoAlbertoni]
https://w3c.github.io/dxwg/dcat/#ex-access-service
21:12:48 [AndreaPerego]
riccardoAlbertoni: It may be worth looking at the example in the spec ^^
21:13:03 [AndreaPerego]
q+
21:13:08 [alejandra]
+q
21:13:17 [riccardoAlbertoni]
ack Nobu_OGURA
21:13:27 [riccardoAlbertoni]
ack AndreaPerego
21:13:58 [alejandra]
AndreaPerego: I'll give the historical perspective...
21:14:08 [alejandra]
... multiple distributions depending on the format
21:14:38 [alejandra]
... when DCAT started to be used in multiple domains and more widely, the data wasn't available as downloadable files but through APIs or web services
21:15:14 [alejandra]
... people were expecting to get the data directly, instead for data behind an API or a web service, the accessURL was the URL of the API or web service endpoint
21:16:06 [alejandra]
... you can get an error in some cases, you have not specified the required parameters to get the data, so there was some work done in some application profiles of DCAT to extend the distribution indicating that it wasn't a downloadable file
21:16:32 [alejandra]
... but a web service; in addition, to make it possible to automitise the access to the data, API or service protocol
21:16:46 [alejandra]
... specially when built upon standards, feature service, etc
21:18:24 [alejandra]
... then the client was able to understand
21:18:37 [alejandra]
... additional requirement to have a separate data service class came later
21:18:38 [riccardoAlbertoni]
q?
21:18:56 [riccardoAlbertoni]
ack alejandra
21:20:01 [AndreaPerego]
alejandra: I would like to ask Nobu_OGURA if the specification wasn't clear enough about the difference and purpose of dcat:Distribution and dcat:DataService.
21:20:14 [AndreaPerego]
... Do you think there's anything we can improve?
21:22:07 [AndreaPerego]
Nobu_OGURA: I can say that, working on the Japanese translation of DCAT, these aspects are not completely clear.
21:23:20 [AndreaPerego]
riccardoAlbertoni: I think also the problem is that we have change a few things in DCAT3, also to improve the explanations. Maybe this can help.
21:23:22 [AndreaPerego]
q+
21:23:29 [riccardoAlbertoni]
ack AndreaPerego
21:23:48 [alejandra]
AndreaPerego: another place to get help is in the change log
21:24:11 [alejandra]
... this also gives an explanation on why a class was added or modified
21:24:32 [alejandra]
... it also points to the issue where the discussion happened, even though there are many issues and the discussion is long
21:25:09 [AndreaPerego]
topic: Pending PRs
21:25:09 [riccardoAlbertoni]
Topic: Pull Request PR #1461
21:25:22 [riccardoAlbertoni]
https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/pull/1461
21:25:38 [alejandra]
relates to this issue: https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/1335
21:25:47 [AndreaPerego]
riccardoAlbertoni: This is the PR to add the inverse of dcat:inSeries.
21:26:27 [AndreaPerego]
... Are there any issues to merge it?
21:27:34 [alejandra]
q+
21:27:53 [riccardoAlbertoni]
ack alejandra
21:28:25 [AndreaPerego]
AndreaPerego: No particular issues, but not clear to me if there are still objections.
21:29:02 [AndreaPerego]
alejandra: I'll put a comment on the PR.
21:29:53 [AndreaPerego]
riccardoAlbertoni: I think most of the objections were solved when we adopted the PROV approach for inverse properties.
21:31:08 [alejandra]
q+
21:31:17 [riccardoAlbertoni]
ack alejandra
21:31:23 [AndreaPerego]
... About the naming, we can consider other options, if you have them.
21:35:05 [AndreaPerego]
s/topic: Pending PRs//
21:35:12 [AndreaPerego]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
21:35:12 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/03/08-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego
21:37:22 [riccardoAlbertoni]
Topic: issue #1409
21:37:29 [riccardoAlbertoni]
https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/1409
21:38:39 [alejandra]
AndreaPerego: the issue is a comment from outside the group and they are raising an issue concerning datasets that are grouped into series but are also versions
21:38:53 [riccardoAlbertoni]
+q
21:38:53 [alejandra]
... replied to them showing how to combine series and versions
21:39:02 [riccardoAlbertoni]
https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/1409#issuecomment-1051236648
21:40:23 [alejandra]
q+
21:41:23 [alejandra]
riccardoAlbertoni: I wouldn't revise the example but add a link
21:41:48 [AndreaPerego]
riccardoAlbertoni: I think it would be worth to link to the example in the specification.
21:42:08 [AndreaPerego]
ack riccardoAlbertoni
21:42:11 [AndreaPerego]
ack alejandra
21:42:12 [riccardoAlbertoni]
ack alejandra
21:43:13 [AndreaPerego]
alejandra: I think it may be a good idea to add the example in the spec, to complement the existing one.
21:44:14 [AndreaPerego]
proposed: We add https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/1409#issuecomment-1051236648 to the guidance section on dataset series
21:44:46 [alejandra]
+1
21:45:11 [riccardoAlbertoni]
+1
21:45:11 [AndreaPerego]
+1
21:46:05 [Nobu_OGURA]
+1
21:46:16 [AndreaPerego]
resolved: We add https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/1409#issuecomment-1051236648 to the guidance section on dataset series
21:46:22 [AndreaPerego]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
21:46:22 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/03/08-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego
21:46:25 [riccardoAlbertoni]
Topic: PR 1472
21:46:29 [riccardoAlbertoni]
https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/pull/1472
21:46:58 [AndreaPerego]
riccardoAlbertoni: It's about updating the DCAT class diagram based on the last changes.
21:47:30 [AndreaPerego]
... In particular: new properties were added, and inverse properties were removed from the diagram.
21:47:59 [AndreaPerego]
riccardoAlbertoni: AndreaPerego was also proposing to consider removing the cardinality restrictions.
21:48:28 [AndreaPerego]
... There restrictions are non-normative, and are just there to provide some guidance.
21:49:02 [AndreaPerego]
riccardoAlbertoni: I'm personally a bit concerned in removing them, as people may rely on them.
21:49:12 [alejandra]
+q
21:49:17 [AndreaPerego]
ack alejandra
21:49:19 [riccardoAlbertoni]
ack alejandra
21:49:45 [AndreaPerego]
alejandra: I would favour to keep the cardinality, making it clear they are non-normative.
21:50:06 [AndreaPerego]
... For implementers, the more information is provided, the better.
21:50:44 [AndreaPerego]
riccardoAlbertoni: There's a note about the fact that these cardinalities are non-normative - as well as the whole diagram.
21:50:52 [Nobu_OGURA]
+q
21:51:12 [riccardoAlbertoni]
ack Nobu_OGURA
21:51:29 [AndreaPerego]
Nobu_OGURA: I have the same opinion. Better keep the cardinality.
21:51:42 [alejandra]
q+
21:51:59 [riccardoAlbertoni]
ack alejandra
21:52:21 [AndreaPerego]
q+
21:52:57 [riccardoAlbertoni]
ack AndreaPerego
21:53:16 [AndreaPerego]
DCAT diagram: https://www.w3.org/TR/vocab-dcat-3/images/dcat-all-attributes.svg
21:57:22 [alejandra]
q+
21:59:32 [AndreaPerego]
AndreaPerego: I think we don't need to explicitly specify 0..* cardinality, as this is the default one.
22:02:12 [AndreaPerego]
... Also, the only cardinality restriction we have in the RDF definition is on foaf:primaryTopic.
22:04:04 [Nobu_OGURA]
+q
22:04:07 [AndreaPerego]
alejandra: Probably the best thing is to discuss cardinality in a primer.
22:04:13 [alejandra]
ack alejandra
22:04:15 [riccardoAlbertoni]
ack alejandra
22:04:19 [riccardoAlbertoni]
ack Nobu_OGURA
22:04:53 [AndreaPerego]
... So, I think we should remove all the restrictions that are not in the RDF definition.
22:04:56 [AndreaPerego]
Nobu_OGURA: I agree.
22:05:21 [AndreaPerego]
alejandra: About the one on dcat:inSeries, as it is a new thing, probably we should not specify it.
22:06:11 [Nobu_OGURA]
+1
22:06:30 [AndreaPerego]
proposed: We remove all the cardinality constraints from the diagram when they are not in the RDF definition
22:06:58 [riccardoAlbertoni]
+1
22:07:02 [alejandra]
+1
22:07:04 [Nobu_OGURA]
+1
22:07:07 [AndreaPerego]
+1
22:07:13 [AndreaPerego]
resolved: We remove all the cardinality constraints from the diagram when they are not in the RDF definition
22:07:21 [AndreaPerego]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
22:07:21 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/03/08-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego
22:07:35 [riccardoAlbertoni]
https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/1443
22:07:52 [AndreaPerego]
topic: Issue 1443
22:08:55 [AndreaPerego]
riccardoAlbertoni: We discussed this issue during the last meeting, and decided to not to change the names of properties dcat:prev etc.
22:09:07 [AndreaPerego]
q+
22:10:23 [AndreaPerego]
... Annette however pointed out that any ordered collection is a series.
22:10:58 [riccardoAlbertoni]
The first resource in a series of resources, to which the current resource belongs.
22:11:31 [AndreaPerego]
riccardoAlbertoni: So, I wonder whether we should revise the definition into "The first resource in a series of resources, to which the current resource belongs."
22:11:41 [alejandra]
https://w3c.github.io/dxwg/dcat/#Property:resource_previous
22:12:22 [alejandra]
https://w3c.github.io/dxwg/dcat/#Property:resource_first
22:13:33 [AndreaPerego]
alejandra: Not clear if changing "ordered collection" into "series" will solve the problem, as they are synonyms.
22:13:48 [AndreaPerego]
riccardoAlbertoni: This way we can change the property names.
22:15:37 [alejandra]
AndreaPerego: understood the comment in the other way around
22:16:04 [alejandra]
... the properties are defined as subproperties
22:16:12 [alejandra]
... for ordered collection of resources
22:17:33 [alejandra]
... we are reusing properties that can be seamlessly integrated in HTTP headers (they come from IANA)
22:17:47 [alejandra]
... we are linking to standard practice by using these names
22:18:27 [alejandra]
q+
22:21:29 [AndreaPerego]
AndreaPerego: Changing the names will break the relationship with the IANA relation types these properties are meant to be linked to.
22:21:55 [AndreaPerego]
alejandra: I think it is not confusing to keep the names. We should just add more details in the description.
22:23:19 [AndreaPerego]
riccardoAlbertoni: About the definitions, probably we should drop "series" as it is a synonym of "ordered collection".
22:23:52 [riccardoAlbertoni]
ack AndreaPerego
22:24:09 [riccardoAlbertoni]
ack alejandra
22:25:15 [AndreaPerego]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
22:25:15 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/03/08-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego
22:26:07 [AndreaPerego]
[meeting adjourned]
22:26:08 [AndreaPerego]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
22:26:08 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/03/08-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego