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14:49:11 <trackbot> Meeting: XForms Users Community Group Teleconference
14:49:11 <trackbot> Date: 25 February 2022
14:49:55 <Steven> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2022Feb/0020
14:49:58 <Steven> Chair: Steven
14:50:05 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
14:50:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/02/25-forms-minutes.html Steven
14:51:26 <Steven> Previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2021/02/18-forms-minutes
14:53:39 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
14:53:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/02/25-forms-minutes.html Steven
14:56:24 <Alain> Alain has joined #forms
14:59:10 <ebruchez> ebruchez has joined #forms
15:00:07 <Steven> Present: Alain, Erik, Steven
15:00:18 <Steven> Topic: Spec editors
15:00:18 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2022Feb/0019
15:00:31 <Steven> Steven: I reordered the editors.
15:00:41 <Steven> Topic: ACTION-2309: Research xpath3 function definitions (Erik)
15:00:41 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2022Jan/0011
15:00:41 <Steven> [We noted we will come back to this later]
15:01:16 <Steven> Steven: Next week on the agenda
15:01:24 <Steven> Topic: ACTION-2315: Report on event handling in web components (Erik)
15:01:24 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2022Jan/0020
15:01:44 <Steven> Erik: I'm looking at it, but I need to actuaqlly write some examples.
15:01:51 <Steven> s/qll/ll/
15:01:59 <Steven> Topic: ACTION-2312: Devise text for submission using @value (Steven)
15:01:59 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2022Feb/0005
15:01:59 <Steven> (Also covers  ACTION-2317: Include submit-serialize in submission using
15:01:59 <Steven> @value
15:01:59 <Steven> and ACTION-2318: Add new submission text to spec)
15:02:04 <Steven> Steven: Done.
15:02:17 <Steven> ... please check the text.
15:02:32 <Steven> Topic: ACTION-2314: Compose text that matches the <control/> discussion for
15:02:32 <Steven> mirroring (Steven)
15:02:32 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2022Feb/0001
15:02:46 <Steven> Steven: Continues.
15:02:58 <Steven> Topic: ACTION-2313: Research the alternatives for 'dirty' data, and produce
15:02:58 <Steven> code in all of them for comparison (Steven)
15:02:58 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2022Jan/0012
15:02:58 <Steven> (Was: Detecting/Ignoring unsaved data
15:02:59 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2022Jan/0008)
15:03:02 <Steven> Steven: Continues
15:03:12 <Steven> Topic: Timescale Plans
15:03:12 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2022Jan/att-0004/2022-plans
15:03:12 <Steven> Focusing today on State change events
15:03:12 <Steven> https://www.w3.org/2018/09/26-forms-minutes.html#item05
15:06:30 <Steven> Steven: [Discusses issue at the end of the link]
15:06:40 <Steven> Erik: My porblem is what is a value.
15:07:02 <Steven> ... the control can decide itself what a vlaue is.
15:07:10 <Steven> ... eg output
15:07:31 <Steven> ... in the model we have a bind pointing to a node, but not a value; it is not an input or output.
15:07:41 <Steven> ... what is the notion of a value in a bind?
15:08:13 <Steven> s/vlaue/value/
15:09:01 <Steven> Erik: So do we say a bind only has a value if it points to a node without children?
15:09:42 <Alain> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/MutationObserver
15:09:50 <Steven> Steven: Do you have a proposal for another way to do it?
15:09:59 <Steven> Alain: I was thinking about DOM mutation events
15:10:27 <Steven> ... when something is changed, it activates an event
15:11:00 <Steven> Erik: We do have an event called xxforms-value-changed
15:11:15 <Steven> ... nothing to do with binds, but you can listen to instances.
15:11:32 <Steven> ... it is synchronous,
15:11:59 <Steven> ... with refresh, there is really a very specific point that we dispatch events
15:12:10 <Steven> ... changes are not really synchronous
15:13:27 <ebruchez>  https://doc.orbeon.com/xforms/events/events-extensions-events#xxforms-value-changed
15:13:56 <Steven> Steven: I just need to assert in the model that I want events for a value changing, and not need a fake hidden control.
15:14:30 <Steven> Erik: We could add a value attribute on binds, to indicate that we are listening to value changes on that.
15:15:13 <ebruchez> <xf:bind ref="" value="concat('foo-', .)">
15:15:32 <Steven> Alain: Isn't that calculate?
15:15:50 <Steven> Erik: No, it doesn't assign a value to the node
15:17:20 <Steven> ... it would be a property, like readonly, indicating that it generates value-changed in the model.
15:17:37 <Steven> ... and the other events if needed.
15:17:44 <Steven> Alain: A boolean?
15:17:58 <Steven> Erik: Two choices, either a string, or a sequence
15:18:30 <Steven> ... and the question is does it have other uses?
15:21:30 <Steven> Steven: Another possibility is a null control in the model, that only is there to allow you to listen for events.
15:21:42 <ebruchez> https://doc.orbeon.com/xforms/core/binds#custom-mips
15:21:45 <Steven> Erik: In our implementation we have custom MIPS
15:21:57 <Steven> ... tracking custom properties
15:22:33 <Steven> Steven: Boolean?
15:22:53 <Steven> Erik: We convert to a string.
15:23:08 <Steven> Alain: XSLTForms has this as well.
15:23:17 <Steven> ... a string in DOM3
15:23:45 <ebruchez> my:value="."
15:23:46 <Steven> Erik: So we could have a custom property
15:24:30 <Steven> Alain: I would like to mention a usecase
15:25:01 <Steven> ... having value changed associated to a @calculate
15:25:21 <Steven> Erik: YOu could even do calculate="." to achieve the effect
15:25:26 <Steven> s/YO/Yo/
15:26:32 <Steven> Steven: Let's sit on it a week, and come to a conclusion next week on which we like best.
15:27:50 <Steven> Topic: AOB
15:28:02 <Steven> Steven: Let's do submission echo next week.
15:28:13 <Steven> [ADJOURN]
15:28:26 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
15:28:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/02/25-forms-minutes.html Steven
15:29:21 <Steven> s/porblem/problem
15:35:03 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
15:35:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/02/25-forms-minutes.html Steven