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15:02:17 <kaz> meeting: WoT Discovery
15:02:34 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_McCool, Cristiano_Aguzzi, Kunihiko_Toumura
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15:03:13 <kaz> chair: McCool
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15:05:53 <kaz> present+ Christian_Glomb, Farshid_Tavakolizadeh
15:07:18 <kaz> scribenick: kaz
15:07:21 <kaz> topic: Minutes
15:07:30 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/2022/02/14-wot-discovery-minutes.html Feb-14
15:07:38 <kaz> mm: (goes through the minutes)
15:07:55 <kaz> present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima
15:08:12 <kaz> approved
15:08:15 <kaz> topic: PRs
15:08:38 <kaz> agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Discovery_WebConf#21_February_2022
15:08:43 <kaz> subtopic: PR 276
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15:09:14 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-discovery/pull/276 PR 276 - Fix typo, context, and ontology
15:09:19 <kaz> mm: mostly editorial
15:09:27 <kaz> ft: good to get some more reviews
15:09:47 <kaz> ... e.g., from Andrea
15:09:52 <JKRhb> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:09:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/02/21-wot-discovery-minutes.html JKRhb
15:09:59 <kaz> present+ Jan_Romann
15:10:21 <kaz> subtopic: PR 273
15:10:41 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-discovery/pull/273 PR 273 - Things API with optional CRUD
15:10:47 <kaz> ft: please see the diff
15:11:22 <kaz> -> https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/wot-discovery/273/5d1fb65...farshidtz:cc78d73.html#exploration-directory-api diff - 6.2.2 Directory Service API
15:12:01 <kaz> mm: why don't we move the extra sections to the bottom?
15:12:43 <kaz> ft: ok
15:13:01 <kaz> ... regarding the Editor's note, just added some sentences
15:13:05 <kaz> ... but the diff is broken
15:14:37 <kaz> mm: (then shows the text at the bottom of section 6.2.2
15:15:01 <kaz> -> https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/wot-discovery/273/5d1fb65...farshidtz:cc78d73.html#exploration-directory-api 6.2.2 Directory Service API
15:15:15 <kaz> mm: (then 6.2.2.1)
15:15:34 <kaz> -> https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/wot-discovery/273/5d1fb65...farshidtz:cc78d73.html#exploration-directory-api-registration 6.2.2.1 Things API
15:16:30 <kaz> mm: we should have actual terminology for "full HTTP directory"
15:16:55 <kaz> ft: this is a section for HTTP
15:17:17 <kaz> mm: maybe still good to have a clear terminology definition
15:17:28 <kaz> zakim, who is on the call?
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15:17:46 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
15:17:50 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:17:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/02/21-wot-discovery-minutes.html kaz
15:18:23 <kaz> mm: (goes back to the PR itself, and adds comments)
15:19:13 <kaz> ... this comment might be a bit out dated
15:19:24 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-discovery/pull/273#pullrequestreview-881394579 Farshid's comment 7 days ago
15:19:30 <kaz> ft: already removed
15:20:12 <kaz> mm: should be a bit cleaner
15:21:09 <kaz> ... generic consumers trying to talk with the Directory may have some problems
15:21:25 <kaz> ca: you can select one form
15:21:53 <kaz> s/ago/ago about multiple forms/
15:22:03 <kaz> mm: (puts comments)
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15:22:22 <FarshidT> https://github.com/w3c/wot-discovery/blob/main/directory.tm.json#L52
15:23:03 <kaz> s/https/-> https/
15:23:12 <kaz> s/52/52 multiple forms/
15:23:22 <kaz> mm: can you create an issue now?
15:23:31 <kaz> ... and we can merge this PR itself
15:25:17 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-discovery/pull/273#discussion_r811232167 McCool's comments
15:25:49 <kaz> [[
15:25:49 <kaz> Discussion: Farshids thinks this is broken (maybe messed up as part of an earlier PR) and needs to be fixed. McCool thinks at the very least that putting forms distinguished by different contentTypes in a single interaction is inconvenient for Consumers. Farshid will create an issue and will investigate.
15:25:50 <kaz> ]]
15:27:52 <kaz> mm: OK with merging this PR
15:27:57 <kaz> ... but a bit confusing
15:28:20 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-discovery/pull/273#discussion_r811191326 McCool's comments on further clarification
15:28:37 <kaz> mm: let's merge this PR itself
15:28:53 <kaz> (merged)
15:28:58 <kaz> q+
15:29:41 <kaz> kaz: in that case, your comments on further clarifications are included in Farshid's new issue. right?
15:29:50 <kaz> mm: most of them have been already fixed
15:30:12 <kaz> ... and remaining points are included in Farshid's issue and we can look into the minutes as well
15:30:23 <kaz> subtopic: PR 274
15:30:53 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-discovery/pull/274 PR 274 - Specify Consumer Discovery Process
15:31:36 <kaz> mm: probably we need some more clarification on server/client within Architecture
15:32:10 <kaz> ... (visits Farshid's comment 7 days ago)
15:32:18 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-discovery/pull/274#pullrequestreview-881831435 Farshid's comment
15:32:52 <kaz> mm: (adds a new comment)
15:32:57 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-discovery/pull/274#discussion_r811239929 McCool's new comment
15:33:07 <kaz> [[
15:33:08 <kaz> Thought I fixed this, let me checked (won't merge suggesting in case it screws up my other commits... but will take into account in my edits)
15:33:09 <kaz> ]]
15:33:35 <FarshidT> Issue to validate forms: https://github.com/w3c/wot-discovery/issues/277
15:33:38 <kaz> q?
15:33:40 <kaz> ack k
15:34:15 <kaz> @@@ above issue to be moved later (to PR 273)
15:34:34 <kaz> mm: (goes through the other comments)
15:34:49 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-discovery/pull/274#issuecomment-1039277955 McCool's comments on check points)
15:35:08 <kaz> s/comments)/comments on check points)/
15:35:51 <kaz> mm: maybe D-client might be redundant
15:36:01 <kaz> s/D-client/"D-client"/
15:37:22 <kaz> ... the whole point here is need for the name for "Discoverer"
15:37:40 <kaz> ... sounds like "an entity capable of doing Discovery"
15:37:54 <kaz> s/Discovery"/Discovery" which is not/
15:38:40 <kaz> ... we could use "Discover" rather than "D-Consumer" and "D-Client" and use anothr term for the current meaning, e.g., Registerer
15:39:04 <kaz> i/we could/we could do:/
15:39:12 <kaz> s/we could use/opt1: /
15:39:20 <kaz> ... opt2: leave it as is
15:39:51 <kaz> ... opt3: get rid of "D-Client", however, definition of "Consumer" implies interactions with Things
15:40:01 <kaz> ... including endpoint Things
15:40:18 <kaz> tou: would prefer different terms
15:40:52 <kaz> mm: the consensus here is
15:41:17 <kaz> ... do 1 and also use this to resolve 3
15:41:41 <kaz> ... say a "Discoverer" MAY be a "Consumer", but not necessarily
15:41:43 <kaz> q?
15:41:45 <kaz> q+
15:42:42 <kaz> kaz: would suggest we once think about the name of the entity and the roles of the entity separately
15:42:43 <kaz> ack k
15:43:36 <kaz> mm: let's see how to solve this within the terminology from Architecture
15:44:23 <kaz> ... (then goes through the other comments)
15:44:53 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-discovery/pull/274#issuecomment-1039315832 comments on change name of section, clean up text in Architecture, etc.
15:47:01 <kaz> mm: let's see the section on "Exploration Mechanisms"
15:47:11 <kaz> -> https://w3c.github.io/wot-discovery/#exploration-mech 6. Exploration Mechanisms
15:47:32 <kaz> [[
15:47:33 <kaz> A device intends to publish an entire TD which contains private and public parts: publish one TD (Thing Link) with only the public information referencing another TD which contains the full description.
15:47:34 <kaz> ]]
15:48:32 <kaz> mm: (adds a new comment)
15:48:42 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-discovery/pull/274#issuecomment-1047014986 McCool's new comment
15:48:49 <kaz> [[
15:48:58 <kaz> I think the last use case is not really "describedby" but "extends" or similar. I propose we remove it:
15:48:58 <kaz> A device intends to publish an entire TD which contains private and public parts: publish one TD (Thing Link) with only the public information referencing another TD which contains the full description.
15:48:59 <kaz> ]]
15:50:32 <kaz> ft: "Not having extra metadata" should not be a consequence of ThingLink itself, but of the describedby relation.
15:51:08 <cris> q+
15:51:51 <kaz> mm: think it i cleaner if ThingLink does one thing
15:52:22 <kaz> .. Private/public decisions are an access control policy, and should be decided when the TD itself is delivered.
15:52:36 <kaz> ... ThingLink is an introduction mechanism
15:52:52 <kaz> ... don't want to mix metadata within links
15:53:27 <kaz> ft: in that case, why do we need a type for links?
15:53:32 <kaz> ... just need describedby?
15:53:55 <kaz> mm: if we leave it open, then my preference is disallow the metadata
15:54:07 <kaz> ... at this point
15:54:18 <cris> ack c
15:54:45 <kaz> s/disallow/not disallow/
15:55:32 <kaz> mm: the consensus is
15:55:42 <kaz> ... delete the use case
15:56:00 <kaz> ... but don't disallow metadata in Thing Links
15:56:46 <kaz> kaz: in that case, it's actually possible from the spec viewpoint, but we don't want to encourage people to use it at the moment
15:57:04 <kaz> mm: right. not recommended
15:57:15 <kaz> ack k
15:57:51 <kaz> mm: (next looks into Cristiano's comment)
15:58:06 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-discovery/pull/274#discussion_r807767846 Cristiano's comment on the Editor's note
15:58:44 <kaz> mm: if it's open for any kind of protocols, implementation would be suffered
15:59:36 <kaz> ca: right
15:59:44 <kaz> ... it's completely left open
16:00:45 <kaz> ... it seems to be reasonable t say we can allow HTTP and CoAP
16:00:56 <kaz> ... but it would omit some others, e.g, FTP
16:01:49 <kaz> kaz: we're out of time, so let's wrap up the discussion for today
16:02:45 <kaz> [adjourned]
16:02:49 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:02:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/02/21-wot-discovery-minutes.html kaz
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