14:59:31 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #forms
14:59:31 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/02/18-forms-irc
14:59:33 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:59:33 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #forms
14:59:35 <trackbot> Meeting: XForms Users Community Group Teleconference
14:59:35 <trackbot> Date: 18 February 2022
15:00:15 <Steven> genda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2022Feb/0014
15:00:21 <Steven> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2022Feb/0014
15:00:31 <Steven> Sorry about the mistake in the subject
15:00:34 <Steven> Chair: Steven
15:01:17 <ebruchez> ebruchez has joined #forms
15:03:31 <Steven> Topic: ACTION-2309: Research xpath3 function definitions (Erik)
15:03:31 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2022Jan/0011
15:03:31 <Steven> [We noted we will come back to this later]
15:03:45 <Steven> Erik: Continues
15:03:55 <Steven> Topic: ACTION-2315: Report on event handling in web components (Erik)
15:03:55 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2022Jan/0020
15:03:59 <Steven> Erik: Continues
15:05:11 <Steven> i/Erik: Continues/Erik: I have no further action, we just need to come back to it.
15:05:27 <Steven> Topic: ACTION-2312: Devise text for submission using @value (Steven)
15:05:27 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2022Feb/0005
15:05:27 <Steven> (Also covers  ACTION-2317: Include submit-serialize in submission using
15:05:27 <Steven> @value)
15:05:57 <Steven> Erik: Fine with me
15:06:01 <Steven> Alain: Yes
15:06:24 <Steven> ACTION: Steven add new submission text to spec
15:06:24 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2318 - Add new submission text to spec [on Steven Pemberton - due 2022-02-25].
15:06:54 <Steven> Topic: ACTION-2314: Compose text that matches the <control/> discussion for
15:06:54 <Steven> mirroring (Steven)
15:06:54 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2022Feb/0001
15:07:06 <Steven> Steven: Continues, we need to come back to it.
15:07:56 <Steven> Topic: ACTION-2313: Research the alternatives for 'dirty' data, and produce
15:07:56 <Steven> code in all of them for comparison (Steven)
15:07:56 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2022Jan/0012
15:07:56 <Steven> (Was: Detecting/Ignoring unsaved data
15:07:57 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2022Jan/0008)
15:08:06 <Steven> Steven: Continues
15:08:16 <Steven> Topic: Timescale Plans
15:08:16 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2022Jan/att-0004/2022-plans
15:08:16 <Steven> Focusing today on Repeat with Automatic Controls
15:08:16 <Steven> https://www.w3.org/2016/09/07-forms-minutes.html#item02
15:08:17 <Steven> Erik's reply:
15:08:17 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2022Feb/0013
15:09:04 <Steven> Erik: When we use the grid component, we have controls you can add and remove and so on.
15:09:20 <Steven> ... there's quite a large set of things you could do
15:09:30 <Steven> ... we have a subset, and get requests for more
15:10:08 <Steven> ... So, what is the minimal set of features we can add? Obviously insert and delete, setting a min and max number of repetitions
15:11:46 <Steven> Steven: we do have @number on <repeat/>
15:13:40 <Steven> ... although that doesn't address what is being suggested here
15:14:10 <Steven> Erik: We use a @template to say that this is the chunk of XML to add
15:14:28 <Steven> ... especially needed is the repeat is empty
15:14:43 <Steven> ... it needs this information
15:14:56 <Steven> ... for inserts
15:15:19 <Steven> ... certain interfaces do constrain you in some ways
15:15:39 <Steven> ... not sure if that was because of use cases.
15:15:58 <Steven> ... We also have reordering.
15:16:28 <Steven> ... one possibility would be for it to be open, and leave it at "The user can insert and delete".
15:17:09 <Steven> ... If you specify a template, it could be taken as a sign that you allow automatic insertions and deletions
15:17:23 <Steven> ... the ability to insert and delete and reorder is very useful.
15:17:46 <Steven> ... we also have @appearance for affecting the UI
15:18:02 <Steven> ... could be left to the inmplementor how it is done
15:18:30 <Steven> ... minimum is useful, stops people deleting everything for instabnce
15:18:38 <Steven> ... maximum is a bit less useful.
15:19:36 <Steven> ... We could have @template and @min and @max, and an attribute for allowing explicit  insertions and deletions.
15:20:31 <Steven> Alain: I would not design it this way. @template should be in the model because it is schema constrained, like minoccurs. I would prefer a binding property
15:20:46 <Steven> ... it is associated with the element for repeat
15:20:57 <Steven> ... we need not just triggers and submit
15:21:10 <Steven> s/ and / but /
15:21:47 <Steven> Alain: Specialised styling for triggers
15:21:53 <Steven> ... as well.
15:22:12 <Steven> ... sounds more open as a specification
15:22:18 <ebruchez> 	template="instance('my-template')"
15:22:25 <Steven> Erik: I'm not sure about the template in the model
15:23:09 <Steven> Alain: The template is not due to the repeat, but the schema
15:23:48 <Steven> Erik: So a new property associated with the data
15:23:53 <Steven> Alain: Yes
15:24:03 <Steven> ... best to write it directly in a bind
15:24:11 <Steven> Erik: SO what would the syntax look like?
15:24:16 <Steven> s/SO/So/
15:24:37 <Steven> Alain: If XForms were really schema drive, it wouldn;t be necessary
15:24:45 <Steven> ... like generating a form from a schema
15:24:50 <Steven> s/;/'/
15:24:55 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
15:24:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/02/18-forms-minutes.html Steven
15:27:00 <Steven> Steven: How further?
15:27:26 <Steven> Erik: Try suggesting some design that we could talk about more concretely
15:28:35 <Steven> Alain: So it would be extending the repeat element?
15:28:42 <Steven> Steven: Yes, that's the suggestion
15:28:55 <Steven> Erik: We have grid, but it doesn;t have to be that.
15:29:04 <Steven> s/;/'/
15:29:44 <Steven> Erik: We don't *have* to do it.
15:29:57 <Steven> Steven: We have the functionality already, just not automatic.
15:31:13 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2022Jan/att-0004/2022-plans
15:31:48 <Steven> Steven: How about state change events?
15:33:32 <Steven> Topic: AOB
15:33:57 <Steven> [None]
15:34:06 <Steven> [ADJOURN]
15:34:50 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
15:34:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/02/18-forms-minutes.html Steven
15:35:26 <Steven> Present: Alain, Erik, Steven
15:35:27 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
15:35:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/02/18-forms-minutes.html Steven